Those interested in a wildscape certification

I wasn't worried about it spreading, it is growing in the only shady moisture retaining area in my yard.
C

Not sure about the one you have. But I had one that was supposed to be sterile.Upon further investigation I found out that it could not produce seed be was capable of fertilizing the invasive variety of loosestrife.

That sounds like the Mexican Petunas I have the flowers fall off and slow spreading. Then I noticed some people had seeds to trade and thought I was doing something wrong.

Thanks

Dane

I don't live near any wild loosestrife and I have read that myself. My plant has no one to exchange pollen with. I grew this plant in MI for 20 years and never saw a seed. Once again I did not live close to wild stand (which is difficult to do in MI). I have seen for myself what this plant does, it has out competed nearly all of the wetland plants. It is definately a very bad invasive. Where would it invade in Arlington TX?
C

I still have a few dwarf mex. petunias and they pop up every spring. It took a lot of effort to get rid of the tall variety. I have a problem with obedient plant and its a native. I planted one plant in a dry bed, where it never looked very good and it has spread all over that bed. Might be a native but for me it has been somewhat invasive.
I don't really grow any annual natives and I really want to start some of those. I loved the cowpen daisy Josephine gave me.
Whoever put up the link to everwilde seeds, than you, they have some plants I want to order.
C

Water flows downhill, so plants that live in or near water basically spread downhill, too. You all up there would know better the topography for the exact route, but potentially from you to the Gulf of Mexico.

I'm wondering about my Mexican Papaya. It is listed as introduced. When I researched it I found

"It is native to the tropics of the Americas, and was first cultivated in Mexico several centuries before the emergence of the Mesoamerican classic cultures"

In one source I found it included the Lower Rio Grande Valley, maybe cultivated is the key word here.

Seems when ever I lose one, I get a volunteer to take it's place. Last year we had a freeze and lost them all. Here's the new volunteer that came up this spring.

Dane

Sorry Dane, but it says introduced at USDA
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAPA23&photoID=capa23_004_avp.tif

That's OK, I was mainly interested for my own information.

Thanks

Dane

Does one tree produce fruit or do you need two?

They come in male and female and you need both. They one I have is female. The male produces flowers on a runner. As you can see in the pic these female flowers are in the leaf node.

This message was edited Nov 27, 2010 12:45 AM

I really don't have enough natives or the space to add more so I'm gonna opt out of the certification. I also have only 40 or so seeds for the red yucca that I'd be glad to share, but I don't have the space to put out any other plants (at this time :)
Mary

Oh no! I am sad to hear that, did you make an inventory? Sometimes there are more plants in a certain area than it appears.
It takes time to build up, just get whatever seeds you can now and go from there, a little at a time can go a long way, as they say, Rome wasn't built in one day.
Josephine.

I have things die in my garden each year and as I replace them, I am going to make an effort to do so with natives from now on. I haven't finished my inventory but still have hopes it will turn out good.

I am definately more non than native but that is ok as I have plans to remove plants anyway. Elephant ear...too aggressive, gotta go along with some others. My real solution is a work in progress, a large bed that is not nearly completed. Only natives and some space for veggies in that one. I think I just like the excuse to put in more area for growing things...
C

Good idea.

Wow, I've been away a couple of weeks, and y'all have been very busy, haven't you? :)

Josephine, thanks for including me on the d-mail list. I was qualified as a National Wildlife Organization habitat a few years ago. Texas Wildscape cert is something I've been looking at for several years, but I doubt I'm ever going to make it. The reasons? Not good ones, in my opinion. I am adamantly organic, have all the wildlife features (and the wildlife), and have tons and tons of native plants. And I love all of them and would have done those things even if there weren't any such program. But, I fall down on the cert requirements because they divide the 50% list into groups. I qualify on the trees, perennials, and everything else they're looking for. But I can't make the requirements because of my foundation shrubs and understories. And, I have to wonder, what will they decide is an exotic invasive that I should cut down next year?

I've thought long and hard about this. It seems a little arbitrary and unfair. Most of my stuff was planted 23 years ago, years before we knew that they were exotic invasives. Since then, I've chopped down the mature Bradford pear and (added later to the list) the red-tipped photinias. I cut down my gorgeous Chinese wisteria. I dug up every shred of the honeysuckle that my hummers loved, and I dutifully dig up all the Asian jasmine the birds plant. And I've spent hours and hours and hours creating my water feature, feeding the birds, sifting compost, mixing organic fertilizers, spraying vinegar and neem instead of Round-up and a pesticide. But... I still don't qualify by a COUNT, because I still have a lot of Indian hawthornes and a couple of nandinas. I don't quite get that. The hawthornes are not even exotic invasives, and they're gorgeous in bloom. I also have a few 20-year-old crape myrtles, abelia, and oleander which people gasp over. All those things together make my shrub/understory percentage fall below 50%.

So? I've removed all the things that I've learned are harmful to Texas native plants. The only harmful thing left on the list is the nandinas. The rest are not native, but they're not harmful, either. Because they are mature, it would take years to replace them (and hurt the resale value of my house). We have the birds, butterflies, reptiles, bugs, and other critters that the program is designed to encourage. So, for the life of me, I just can't justify nudifying the mature, non-harmful landscape in front of my house, just to get a sign.

I DO think that Wildscapes is a wonderful program, and I would encourage anyone with landscaping ahead of them to follow the guidelines. But, for those who have things they don't want to remove and don't have any reason to except Wildscapes, I'd point out that it's perfectly possible to meet the spirit of the requirements without meeting the letter.

Well I did not know they counted the catagories seperately. I have more non-native trees and shrubs. I also didn't realize there could be no species on the invasives list. I have, unfortunately, asian jasmine that I cut and prune but haven't bothered to completely remove and mayb others if I look. What are the requirements for the nat. wildlife org. habitat? I know one cert. listed on the TX site is stricter than the other. Now that I think of it my shrubs are all boxwood. I was planning on removing the red tipped ph. anyway. Oh well.

I plan on adding as many native plants as I can possibly afford but will not be trying for the actual certification for the same reason. As I've worked on redesigning, rebuilding and replanting our entire landscape for the last 4 years, due to our age and the fact we probably will have to sell within 10 years, I've had to keep in mind that there are LOTS of prospective buyers - probably the majority, in fact - that would not be able to think of the landscape as anything other than "time consuming maintenance and work" and would therefore not consider buying it. So I've planted foundation shrubs but added all the "fun stuff" in between and in front of it with the thought that any future owner could remove the "fun stuff," mulch or rock over that area and convert back to simple landscaping like other properties nearby with very little work.

A yard that consists only of water-consuming turf and perfectly spaced shrubs that a lawn service shapes to look like "Q-tips" (in my mind) is no longer my cup of tea but reality is that is all most people want or have time for. I've just got to design my native landscape so as not to make it an impossible chore for someone to convert back to that.

Glenna

My Goodness, you girls are night owls and early birds too.
Pattie, you have some good reasons for not undoing all your landscaping and I know that you care about ecology and the plants and animals that share this piece of the planet with us.
I know that many things have to be taken into consideration and we all have to do it in a way that is workable for us.
But I think that maybe you have misunderstood the requirements, I bet if you check into it you are very close to qualifying.
It is not that use should use the certification as something to brag about, but rather as a sign that lets people know we care, so many people aren't even remotely aware of how far removed from nature we have become.
I have to get going right now, but I'll be back later.
Josephine.

I dunno about "the reality is" part. I've seen a HUGE change in the 20 years I've been in this area. Even folks who basically have a lawn and lolipop shrubs now more likely have buffalo grass and sage, where it used to be st augustine and nandina or boxwood. (And the lawn services recognize that they can charge the same monthly fee for the landscape that in fact takes less of their time - definitely works for them.) At least around here, it would be terribly unlikely that someone would buy a house well-landscaped with natives, and convert it "back" to that style of the 70s. For someone who is not a gardener, if there's a yard and it's growing, they're happy to just go on with the rest of their life.

I mostly work with folks on the NWF certification, but with any of those certifications, a lot of the point of the thing is to make people aware and thinking, through the process of certifying. Someone who understands the issues, as far as wildlife and water consumption as well as street appeal and their own taste, can make reasonable choices for their own situation within society. It's simple enough to game the numbers to get the sign, if that's what someone wants, but it's fine to be signless and well thought out, too.

I want both! For me its about having an inviting yard for me to enjoy and that includes plants that thrive here and the organisms that come with them. I have turf grass that doesn't really get watered and I am not likely to be replacing that in the front yard. So I do have some issues, so to speak. I just love to dig in the dirt and have always had a fanatical love of plants. I am not certain I can economically or physically get rid of and replace all the non-native species I have.
I put in a pond for me to enjoy and the birds, insects and whatever else comes along. I have rock piles to encourage lizards, snakes and toads. Still I think my yard does not have enough "habitat" to make me actually qualify. But, I will enjoy working towards that goal.
C

Even if I don't get the certification, it has made me more aware of the natives that are available when I am replanting an area. Also so many things that I planted because I thought were native and now find they aren't. It will be way down the road for me to accomplish the final goal, but just knowing what I am working toward will make my future choices much easier.
We already cut down two Vitex and dug about five that came up from seed, a Bradford Pear was eliminated also. My biggest challenge is shrub too Pattie... but I am thinking the Am Beautyberry, Turks Cap, Sweet Spire, and Flame Acanthus will count toward shrub. I haven't gotten into my inventory divided into the categories yet, just too busy with holidays.

Very good attitude Ladies. Half the fun is getting there, don't you think?

I agree! Taking inventory is quite a job. Once I have the list ,looking up plants but will keep me busy when it is too cold to go out. I like labeling my plants and maybe I will even designate a special color tag for natives. The only aspect I find confusing is that a variety of a native counts. I have an obedient plant "Miss Manners" that doesn't reseed...really don't think it should count towards native. Or some weird variety of cone flower. If you are a purist, it makes me think the rules have been bent to call it native. Or have I misunderstood?

Well I prefer that it be the original article, so if you don't like to count them leave them out, it does say native and well adapted plants.

I think that is the way I'm going to proceed. My worst problem area is the elevated bed with drastic slope at very front of our house -- two different sets of new shrubs died before I figured out the "fancy" soil I'd installed there drained a little too well on that slope (LOL) -- after amending the soil, I've decided to wait to replant and hope to find a native shrub for that area. But it sure is bare and ugly while I wait.

In the meantime, I've got an enormous amount of things to learn and hope my brain can absorb at least some of it !!

Happy Holidays,
Glenna

I wonder about hybrids of native plants. For example, I have a chitalpa tree, which is a cross between a catalpa and a desert willow. Doesn't quite seem native, but also doesn't quite seem "introduced"...

Well adapted counts as?

The wildflower center only counts natives as natives.
Well adapted plants are non invasive plants that do well in our climate or have value for wildlife, but are not native. So if you are not going to have 100% native plants then the non native should be plants that contribute to the general purpose of the wildscape.

Okay, resurrecting an old thread here. I haven't been on DG in a while so it showed up on my thread watcher.

Josephine, you are right, I do care deeply about what we (generic we) plant and how we grow it. I've been strictly organic for more than 20 years, and half the stuff I grow is planted with wildlife in mind. It's a lot of work, but I just love it. I can't tell you how much pleasure it gives me, not just to enjoy my garden myself, but to watch the wildlife that parades through my yard to enjoy it too. Just a simple thing like planting a beauty berry, and not just enjoying its beautiful berries, but watching the mockingbirds enjoy them too.

I have done the survey, though. Been doing it every year since I first heard about the two different Wildscape certs. I still can't meet the percentage requirements for shrubs. I have removed all of the exotic invasives except a couple of nandinas. I have made tons of new beds and planted only natives. But this is a small lot, and I'm out of space. My more formal front yard is landscaped with Indian hawthornes, an oleander, an abelia, and a couple of crepe myrtles--all non-natives. Would I plant those things again? No. (No WAY on the crepe myrtles.) But that doesn't necessarily mean I should dig them up now. They aren't exotic invasives or harmful to the environment in any way. (The State Highway Dept uses abelias and crepes in their xeriscapic highway plantings.) They are all beautiful in bloom. The hawthornes provide berries for the birds. And mine are all more than 20 years old, so they're large and filled in. I couldn't buy shrubs, native or not, to replace them that would look as good for another 20 years. Well, at some point, life gets shorter and shorter, and 20 years gets to be a very long time to wait.

That's especially true if you expect to sell your house. Why would anyone buy a previously owned home, if not for mature landscape?

Then there's the problem that they keep changing the requirements. When I first started trying to qualify, my sweetgum tree could be counted as a native. Now, it can't just be native to Texas--it has to be native to YOUR area of Texas. Well, I'm about 30-40 miles west of the sweetgum line. But that's just way too arbitrary. I mean, a year ago it counted as a native, but now it doesn't? My sweetgum is one of my favorite trees, and I'm not about to chop down a mature, healthy tree that I love just because some unknown person drew a line 30 miles east of here. Besides, my son & I have a great time every fall having those sweetgum ball fights. :)

As for the cert sign, I had to think about that one. I thank whoever brought up that point because, after I thought it through, it made me feel a lot better about not qualifying. I don't think it's all about the sign. But I do still think the sign is an important reward.

For one thing, it's hard work to be strictly organic and/or native and/or to have a habitat. If you think these things matter, it's very nice to have the reward of knowing that others share your opinion and appreciate that your effort is important. When you're breaking your back lugging buckets of alfalfa tea all over your lot and splashing it on you and putting up with the smell :), you can look at the sign and remember why you do it and smile.

But the bigger issue is still the awareness of our neighbors. I live in one of those neighborhoods where everyone has a suburban postage-stamp lot, and most of them just do their Japanese boxwood/Bradford pear foundation landscaping. They still think "gardening" means planting a few begonias and pansies every spring along with their Miracle Gro shaker. At the first sign of a stray weed, they trot out the ShrubBGone and Roundup. Do you know, I have a new bed in progress, and in March a few thistles got started there (we are talking 3 or 4 in a 300-sq foot bed). Before I could get out there to dig them up, someone visited it with an herbicide. Yes, I was angry that someone was bothered enough by a couple of weeds to trespass on my ORGANIC lot--or just my lot at all!--with a chemical poison. Especially since I stay on top of my gardens pretty well, and this person knows that, and still couldn't manage to wait a day or two. But I'm sorry to say I wasn't surprised. You say organic, and their eyes glaze over. They were just helping you out, right?

A picture is worth a thousand words. The proof is in the pudding, all that stuff. I have a lot of neighbors who visit and remark on how beautiful my gardens are. To ME, the sign stands up and shouts. It says, very directly, "You like? This is what you can do WITHOUT THE CHEMICALS."

So, I guess what I'm saying is, I think the Texas Wildscape programs are great, for what they get people to do and think about, and I really appreciate what they're trying to accomplish. I just wish that, after all the hard work we've put in to do those very things, we could meet their requirements. The sign would make a statement to my neighbors that might actually change some minds and make a difference. As for me, personally, I love having my lizards and skinks and toads and garden snakes, squirrels, raccoons, possums, birds, whatever else shows up out there. As long as they're happy, I'm happy.

I won't make the strict definition either and that is ok. I grow plants that are useful, beautiful and easy to grow. I try to select natives but if there is a non native that is not invasive and is an interesting plant I am not ashamed to grow it.
C

Well Pattie, have you applied for the certificate and been turned down? You never know, you might qualify more than you think, it is worth a try.
I think you are a very caring person and whether you have the sign or not, you deserve it anyway.
Josephine.

There atleast should be a sign for a chemical free landscape. Your intent is wonderful whether there is a sign or not. I can't believe your neighbor did that. Grrrr! My helpful neighbor cleaned out all the leaves from under my plants last spring, along with the bluebonnet seeds.

Yes, i have had landscape maintenance people remove all the mulch from the flower beds i maintain the the church, and leave the soil bare, talk about mad!!!

I planted some zexmenia at the new school but the landscape co. pulled them all up. I guess they didn't get the memo.

I don't think landscape people recognize native plants sometimes. If it isn't a cookie cutter plant from one of the box stores, it gets pulled or weed whacked. We do our own now, it isn't perfect, has lots of weeds, but I know my plants are safe. I have a lot of natives, but will never get the cert. I know I have made a difference and that is good enough for me. I plant for the butterflies mainly.

It is so rewarding to watch the wildlife enjoy the environment we make for them. I have Downy woodpeckers, wrens, chickadees, bluejays and many other birds here everyday. Not to mention the dragonflies, frogs, etc at the pond. There has been numerous possums, raccoons, hawks, thrashers. The squirrels have drove me nuts with their digging in plants, but I still like watching them and my dogs stare each other down. LOL! There isn't a day goes by that we don't enjoy our yard...weeds and all.

They are not weeds Sheila, they are the plants that work for us and the wildlife.
You are doing so well I still don't see why you wouldn't get certified.

I think there are weeds in a home garden. I want a natural landscape for the organisms that live here but I also want something that is appealing to my eyes as well. Nut grass is an example.

I had started to try Josephine, but I gave up, sorry.