Say AZ, since Country's so gung-ho on turbines, I bet he/she'd love to buy that parcel 750' from one! Maybe even at a premium... it would enhance the view from a green perspective. =0)
October On The Homestead
The turbines aren't any noisier than a 120 car train of coal traveling at 80 MPH. Every once in a while a train hits a car at a crossing.
The turbines they are erecting here produce electricity at wind speed of 8 MPH up to 47 MPH.
As far as workers go, I don't think one man can keep all those turbines going. They are hundreds of workers putting them up. Then all the other people as suppliers, concrete companies, steel workers, etc.
These workers also have to eat & sleep somewhere. Maybe that's why MN has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.
How do they disrupt wildlife ?
In the long run I'd rather see this than another huge coal fired plant going up. Lots of smoke & pollution there.
I should add, I'm not in favor of one system over the other, just stating facts.
Here's some more facts....
http://www.aweo.org/problemwithwind.html#II
The article notes that sustained winds of 30 MPH are needed to produce peak ratings, after that output decreases markedly. Also note the blasting of bedrock for the foundations, which can affect local wells. AZ lives in a bedrock area.
I doubt this will prevent any coal fired plants from being built, sorry to say. Because of the erratic nature of wind, even where AZ lives (and it's darn windy out there, but not always) fossil fuel generators will still be needed to meet this country's needs. The level of destruction needed to install & run a 'field' of wind turbines doesn't justify the small amount of electricity they'll actually generate.
And I don't think the people who are going to have to live w/the impact should be ignored. It's like the draft all over again... the have-less get to sacrifice their lives for the wealthy, who can always find a way out of the war. Heck, as this example shows, profit from it.
More info...
http://www.mensetmanus.net/windpower/cato/probwind.shtml
In fact, if you do a search for "wind energy, problems with" you'll find no shortage of information.
Well, I'll jump into the fray... we are in a natural gas area where the drilling has become a boom. There are wells being punched all thru the countryside with natural gas being at a low price. The reason is so they can lock in the leased land at cheap rates if there is a hole on it. There are pipelines snaking thru the area like woven mesh screen. The noise is annoying, deafening at times. The traffic is unbearable for this backwater that is still living in the past century. Drilling rigs tower over the tall pine trees. The complaints fall on deaf ears, we are told when done drilling, all will be gone. All, that is, until there is a pipeline blowout like CA enjoyed recently.
The short term damage done here is to our surface water. Not contamination but consumpution. To the water wells by fracking the gas wells that can cause the shallow water wells to dry up. To our water which is necessary to sustain life.
This and all the other means of power generation have a price to pay. The damage that has been done to this earth in the name of progress will be here long after we are all dead and gone. Just think... all this is so we can sit in comfort ~ a/c or heat, lighting up the night and chatting on DG or watching the mindless tv.
We are on a highway truck route and we see the wind turbine being trucked thru from the gulf. Some of those blades are huge. Some so large that there is one blade to a semi and the semi has a remote truck following it to turn the rear wheels by remote if needed. These turbines are coming from India. One of my brothers has installed a smaller used one on his farm in southern MN. He has received much benefit from it as he has sold electricity back as well as provided free for himself and a business that rents a large garage on his farm. In addition, he received tax credits. It only makes a soft hum but it is small and only one. The turbine traffic has currently stopped, one of my brothers said that they were finding the blades had stress cracks when delivered. As they were made in India, they could not sue for damages so were sueing the trucking firms that were delivering. I had to chuckle at that.
At any rate, unless we chose to go back a few centuries in civilization, I am afraid this is the price to be paid for progress.
"Walk softly on the earth, for when you leave it, it is all you truly leave to your children and your children's children". - cannot remember where I found that.
I've got a lot of questions about the fracking & water usage. They're starting hearings here for drilling, even though geologist estimates of the amount available in this basin are tiny. Now I understand why... that price of dirt deal. And like you, this is a water challenged area. Well.... research.
I've followed the turbine problems in the WSJ... many large fields here in the US are currently shut down due to those defective blades. And more than a couple projects had been cancelled... till the stimulus. Guess it makes some kind of sense for somebody to put those things up even if they're broken... still get the stimulus funds?
Wouldn't it be nice if it was possible that each home could have their own small turbine or solar array to provide their own energy? jusy enough to be comfortable. That would mean if you lived in the middle of nowhere you would only hear your one turbine. If you chose to live in a metropolis then you would have to deal with the noise. It would be your own choice. I know that would never happen but it's a nice dream.
I think point of use has a lot to say for it, as far as several forms of alternative energy go, w/the excess being sold back to the utilities, much like the arrangement above. So many of the problems w/alternative is scale... a small home turbine is not nearly as disruptive as those huge monstrous things, same w/PV panels. That's what I'm working towards here.
Dyson ~ good quote! After all, that is the sum total of life.
Cajun ~ I will nominate you for the benevolent leader. Make mine solar. I would already have it but for the expense so I use small solar panel led lights, outdoor solar lights, solar battery chargers and feel righteous about it. One can only wonder how it would feel to be off the grid.
It would have to feel good to be able to produce your own power. I know how good it feels to have my own animals for meat, eggs and next Spring I'll have milk, butter and cheese. And to grow my own veggies.
Guys, I'm gettin' a little worried... I think a GMO seed mighta snuck into my GH...
either that, or the ozone layer is getting pretty thin & space rays are causing strange mutations.
Jay, thanks heaps for those terrific links. I am printing them out now and will read them tomorrow -- spent today driving around the canyon for a water co-op board meeting (yeah, I am on it again, oh well), then back home to see if I had the references right in the flyer I made up this morning, found that I was right but the County had changed the names of their ordinances, probably to confuse the public, printed out 50 copies, and raced back to town to put them up at Ace HW, 2 post offices, a grocery store and a bank. I hope they'll do some good. Basically they are an invitation to everyone to come to the Board of Stupes mtg next Tuesday and help us fight to get the County to change the setbacks. It is so hard to wake people up, but this ordinance overrides existing zoning laws and so affects everyone in the County. We will have had only 5 days from the P&Z Commission to the BOS mtg, not even enough time to get letters to the editor written and published (papers come out on Tuesday & Wednesday). I'm not even sujre that is legal, but then the County does not worry about legality, especially since the county atty told the BOS they could do whatever evil & nasty thing they wanted to their consitituents and we couldn't sue them. BTW, our rep to the state legislature is the aunt of one of the BOS members, so she has a family interest in supporting what the BOS wants.
Pod, I am off the grid as are all of my neighbors out here in our little community. We use solar for everything but do have propane for cooking & heating. I have a little home wind turbine which doesn't contribute much -- mostly it is pretty quiet but in windy weather it SCREAMS. Doesn't bother me much because there is only one, and it cannot be heard from 300 feet or so away. Mostly it is just cute.
Jay, we are indeed on a limestone shelf and the blasting for wind turbine foundations is a major issue for us, although the County people just say "oh, we don't think it will hurt anything, tee hee." One of my neighbors is a retired pyrotechnician and she says it positively will, and so does a hydro-geoolgist from the state of AZ. Our limestone is fissured like crazy and we fear that the eight wells in our community (remember, we only have about 40 people living out here, most land is vacant) -- one well is the co-op community well, will be contiminated by the gyppy water over in the millionaire rancher's parcels. He is the one who really covets our wells and will be happy if we all abandon our homes and move away
I can't believe they can change/override zoning laws so easily. Grrrr. I sure hope you can get those set-backs changed, AZ. Our county commissioners are considering a 3 mile set back... turned down a 3 mile setback for a scenic river zone, though. At the moment no companies have submitted plans, & I don't have great hopes if one does. But at least they're starting in the right direction.
I've been wondering if Claire Wolf lives in your area. Love her columns.
Jay, is that a cabbage patch kid in the making?
Heavens, I hope not... I've got enough dependents as it stands! LOL
A 3 mile setback! How wonderful that would be. The numbskills on the Commission kept saying, well, 1/4 mile is the "industry standard" so 1 mile would be 4 TIMES the industry standard and we sure don't want that, the poor rrnachers would lose the use of all that land! Of course they have been told that over and over by the head of P&Z, who gets it from -- who else -- the wind farm developers. It is THEIR standard, not ours.
Sorry, I don't know who Claire Wolf is. I don't get the Phx papers often, and out local papers are really regional, very small town.
She writes for Backwoods Home & lives in some isolated AZ community... just thought it might be yours!
Here's her blog...
http://www.backwoodshome.com/blogs/ClaireWolfe/
Blew like 60 today... literally. Farrier came by & trimmed the donkey feet, brought us a bunch of feed sacks to use for our planned root cellar. Fortunately it wasn't cold, mid-50's, so not bitter out. But the barn was rattling & banging & and tomorrow I'll go see what got torn up. It's still windy out, but more like 30-40. Getting cold & a little sleet around feeding time. I think we're gonna get our first snow tonight. I'm not quite ready for that. Give me another week...
Quite opposite here - except the wind which was strong all day. We had 90 and humid; supposed to be high 80s for the rest of the week.
You just like to be different.... LOL
Because there are a lot of women on this forum, & I think everyone can relate to the limitations of words...
this is a powerful poem on the word 'pretty'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6wJl37N9C0
Wow! Great listen!
Got the garlic I'd left in the ground dug up, sorted, the plot composted & the biggest bulbs replanted. Now to mulch for the winter. We've got a couple of pounds of dirty garlic to clean up, sort, roast & freeze or make soup out of. And looking towards making pumpkin butter out of our blue hubbard squash... I guess that would be hubbard butter... Mother Hubbard's Butter. LOL Anyway, planning on making it in the slow cooker. Yum!
18º here this morning, fire in the wood stove, dogs curled up in front. Sun is bright, no clouds & NO WIND! It's going to be a gorgeous day for working outside... once it gets above freezing, that is. LOL
22 here this morning. Supposed to warm up tomorrow, then cold again starting Sunday. Yes, it was a beautiful day to work outside. Spent this morning putting bubblewrap on those windows in the big greenhouse that are plastic or single pane, only about 8 of them, the rest are double pane. Then spent this afternoon putting more T-posts in down at the bottom of the arroyo and stringing barbed wire on them. My legs are tired from all that ladder climbing and up and down the rocky hillside. I'm looking forward to a hot bath tonight. But I am nearly ready for winter. Brought in lots of firewood and stacked more on the back porch so it will be closer when I run out!
I took Jay's advice and dug up all my tomato plants and brought them into the big GH, small GH, and barn Tuesday night, and it was a good thing because we had our first hard freeze. Is there a special technique you use? Mine were so interwoven in their cages, most of which I made out of fencing, that I just dug up the wires holding the cages, dug up the roots, and dragged them. By that time they were upside down so I just propped them up that way. Of course the plants will die, but hopefully the tomatoes on the plants will ripen up -- there are scads of them.
All my water hoses are stretched out, pointing downhill. I watered the lavender for what I hope will be the last time this fall, so the 4 tote tanks and water lines are now empty.
Still to do: Repair the hole in the barn wall where the chickens pecked at a vent,
We are suposed to get frost in the morning. I put my row cover over my greens.
I don't usually dig the tomatoes, I just pry them out & hang 'em high! LOL Hope you didn't struggle to save the root ball.
You should probably water those lavenders once a month during the winter. That's what I was told in Master Gardener class in NM... it's so dry, & those roots need to stay wet-tish over the winter. I'm rigging drip buckets for my raspberries: kitty litter buckets w/a piece of tubing running to the plant & an emitter. Lets it soak in slow during the day, & then just pick 'em up at the end of the day.
My raspberries didn't make it. Glad I have lots of wild wine berries.
Limited survival here on the blueberries and blackberries too. We are way too dry.
Thanks for the idea on the drip buckets. Where did you find the emitters? And do you need to stake them to keep the wind from taking them to the next county?
This message was edited Oct 28, 2010 10:06 PM
- or is that how you know when they're empty?
ROFLOL
I put a rock or a brick in them... I've been thinking about a thin layer of concrete sloped toward the tubing. The emitters I can get at nursery stores, the local hardware store or there's even a special drip irrigation store in SF. Then I know how much water each plant is getting, I don't forget & leave a hose running (ack!) & if I'm not paying attention, I get exercise from chasing the buckets down if I don't collect them before the next BIG wind.
I didn't really dig as in using a shovel, just pryed & yanked. Whatever dirt came with the roots is still there.
The guy I bought the lavender from was a little vague about how often to water in the winter, he said if we had a dry spell. Well, like you, we have more dry spells than wet. Usually rains in January. I made a drip bucket out of a plastic 35-gallon garbage can, discovered using oversized rubber washers to keep the faucet in the hole from leaking Works better than any kind of goop. When I have tried this in the past, for instance to make rain barrels, I tried every kind of stickum goop Ace & HD had -- they were happy to sell me more and more, each time insisting 'this will stop anything from leaking." They lied, natch. I got some nifty timers from DripWorks (I think, I'll check later if anyone is interested) They work with little or no water pressure, which is what you get with plastic drip buckets!
No, it wasn't DripWorks. Brank name is Holman, I think I got it from an irrigation supply place online.
With the kitty litter buckets, no timing needed. But you can only give max about 3 gallons to a plant, which is really all mine need. And I get the buckets free from a friend.
Yeah, a lot of people don't know that plants in the SW do a whole lot better if they get watered over the winter. Not as much needed as summer, but the wind is still sucking moisture away from the soil, & a lot of root development continues after the leaves drop & before they show again in the spring.
Lids on the kitty litter buckets or barrels?
I don't think it matters on the buckets; they should be empty in a couple of hours anyway. Easier to fill if no lids.
High desert plants and trees appreciate water in the winter, too... wow, it's almost November already!
That's where AZ & I are, kmom. =0)
I'm at 7100', & she's up top the Mogollon Rim, I think.