Looking for suggestions for gardening with MS

Living in the Dallas area and choosing to garden with MS can present challenges, especially from late-June to mid-September. :-) I am very fortunate in that my MS is not progressive and relatively benign in symptoms. But, heat does me in pretty quick and ideas and/or comments on preventing or negating those effects would be a great help. I had dreams for years of what I wanted to grow at my first house and, while the dreams have evolved, I am deeply content and happy with the darts and forays and experiments and even failures in my garden. Would be even happier to find more ways to stay out there longer.

At my house, keeping out of the Texas sun means working in mid to late afternoons when that big cedar elm almost fully shades the small front and side yard (photograph from 2007). And that also means I'm working in about the hottest part of the day. Conundrum. Much has been planted that needs little or no maintenance at all in summer months. For the rest, I wear light-weight clothing, keep cold drinks handy, wash down with the garden hose periodically, only stay out for a max of an hour at a time, and only do what is essential for that day. (And also get a few of those strong young men from my office to come do the heavy digging!) Particularly wanted to hear if anyone has experience with cooling packs and if they are effective for gardening. Any other ideas to try would be appreciated...

I have MS and I live in New England. I am either freezing or melting all the time. (Today I am freezing. It's 47 degrees.) I am so glad you posted - I knew there had to be other folks with MS out there. I mostly do all the things you mentioned - cool drinks, limiting my time in the heat, oh, and remembering that staying out too long actually makes me weak and stupid. I wish I knew some strong young men!!! No, I haven't tried any of those cooling products, but I know just what you're talking about.

Won't you come join us on some of the other accessible gardening threads? Although we don't talk about gardening as much as we should, we talk about health care and doctors ad toxic families and all kinds of stuff - meds, symptoms, travels, fishing, etc. It's lovely.

Thank you for the reply. :-) Which other threads would you suggest to start?

Just go to the other threads in this forum - "practical matters" is good, "laughing with joy" is good, "compassion for handicapped gardeners" is good!

Thanks, I appreciate it.

If there weren't such a distance, I could lend the guys out to you. Eight of my employees are college kids working part-time. Sometimes, one or three will need help buying textbooks and such, so we have a barter deal. I give them them money, they give me yard labor. Saves their pride and saves my back! The arrangement works pretty well, especially when I want to dig out this heavy clay soil. Having another "dig" job in the next couple of weeks for a red/red-orange daylily bed with some short lavenders and Strawberry Gomphrenas in and around them. Have to come up with an alternate plan for later when the current book credits are used up, since most of them are taking off summer and won't need to draw on the Bank of Miss Debra for awhile. :-)

Will check out the suggested threads in the next few days. Again, thank you for the information.

Nice to meet you, Debra! When my kids are out of the house, I'd like to move somewhere warmer - I am so cold all the time. On the other hand, there's probably a lot of AC down there - way too cold for me!

Your plan sounds very pretty. Pictures please.

Debra, Glad you posted. A very big welcome.and do come on the other threads also.
I'll warn you we go from being silly nuts to serious business in just about any thread. Think it must help us survive better.
I'm the odd one out in this group. I've got Congestive Heart Failure, Arthritis,Cronic Depression and a few other things.
We lived in ETEX around Kilgore for 20 years while our girls were in school.Now i'm in the mountains.
Is Arkansas close enough to lend those guys out? LOL
Carri the nice thing about AC is you can adjust the temp where you want it. I don't like super cold either. My DH did and always reminded me i could always put more clothes on but he could'nt take anymore off.
Collage guys love to eat. bribe them with food.
Anyway come join us.
Vickie

Vickie,
Thank you for writing. I am looking forward to going on the other threads. My job has been so intense and involved in the last 18 months that I have let almost every other point of contact drop. Will be nice to talk with people who AREN'T from work and who are in something of the same slightly leaky boat as am I. :-)

Debra

No Vickie, I'm the odd one out. I'm odder than you are, anyway.

Ah-h-h, Carrie and Vickie are rank amateurs when it comes to oddness, but I respect them anyway. LOL.
My name is Kay. Welcome to the forum.
My husband, Jim/Seacanepain has Degenerative Disk Disease. The heat and humidity here are a problem for him. I’m not sure if that is because of DDD and the medications he is on or just because he is originally from PA. He actually has a floor fan and 100’s of yards of extension cord he uses when he is working near enough to an electrical outlet. It is one of those heavy duty fans that are used commercially to dry floors. It puts out a serious breeze. Not sure how helpful that would be in a drier climate. But, here, having enough air movement to dry perspiration, keeps you cooler.
Please do check out and chime in on the other threads. There are often gems of real and useful information imbedded in our magpie chatter. LOL. Kay*

Kay, are you trying to start trouble? "With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for POOL." Which is another thing they say to do, swim. The water (allegedly) cools off your heat-stressed muscles as fast as they heat up. I hate swimming unless the water is warm like a bathtub.

Hello, Kay. Gardening with that condition has to be tough. (Well, almost any activity has to be tough.) Once worked for a chiropractor and saw a lot of people in pain from it. As to the heat/humidity, you're right, could be the meds are contributing to the problem. I have a slew of other medicated health stuff and some instructions caution against exposure to heat, humidity, and/or direct sun. And I can sure see how the move south would mean an adjustment! My family moved from Northern Indiana to North Central Texas when I was 14. Talk about weather shock. It gets HOW hot, there? Yikes!! But, after 39 years in and around Dallas, I wouldn't move back.

My yard is small enough that I could easily run a fan. You may be right that it would probably be less effective in our climate, but it is certainly worth trying and I thank you very much for the suggestion. Will "mine" the other threads soon. :-)

Carrie, will post photos in the next couple of weeks. One of the kids is coming on Sunday afternoon to start the dig out. Should be finished by next weekend and I can plant.

Love being in a pool, but I like the water on the cool side; lukewarm at most. Does help. And a garden hose works just as well. At least for my head! :-)

Ugh, I like it like bathwater to relax my spasticity.

I'm wth Carrie, cold shocks my whole system.If anything i'll go the other extreme....As hot as i can stand it.But have'nt done that in the last couple of years. Maybe i should LOL

Carrie, I'm with you and Vickie--cold water is badbadbadbadbad! For me, it is just preferable to have cool water instead of warm after working in the yard. I am extraordinarily fortunate in that my biggest issue with MS (and with the forty-'leven other things) is heat, so even tepid water feels great. Which is about as cool as the temp coming out of the hose is in August around here. :-) End of January is a different story. Because it usually stays so warm in winter, and we rarely get snow or ice, I can pretty much work outside anytime between end of October and mid-March. Get a lot of foundation, cleanup, and prep work done that had to be let go during summer. And we usually have green, growing things year-round, so I don't have as severe a "withdrawal" phase as you two do living in colder country. But that six-week span from mid-January to end of February? Brrrrrr...bring on the HOT water.

Hi, Debra. Welcome to the Accessible Forum. I’m Jim. The guy with the fan and lots and lots of extension cord. (….which I believe, Ladies, makes me the clear winner in the oddball contest. LOL.)
If you decide to try the fan trick, I would advice getting heavy-duty extension cord like you see them use on construction sites. The thick, bright orange kind. It is durable and safe for outside use and the color means you probably won’t sink a spade in the ground and have a “shocking” experience. Uh-h-h. I know that one was pretty bad, but you get the idea.
Carrie, please don’t say that 4-letter “p” word around Kay. I’ll never get that zero-turn mower if Kay gets off on that “we NEED a pool.” thing again. We’ve got a river, a creek and a pond in walking distance. We don’t NEED the pool right now. I think I’m married to a surviving specimen of homoaquaticus. If we had a pool on site, we would never get any work out of Kay. She would be in the pool all the time. Of course, she tells me we need it for the health benefits it would give me and the other mobility impaired here.
Seriously, a water feature might be something to think about, Debra. I am retired AF. I was stationed in White Sands, NM for several years. I wasn’t into gardening back them, but I do remember B-B-Q’s in the backyards of people who were. Even a small, self-contained water feature seemed to cool things down. The selection of sizes and styles of those is amazing these days. (Jim)

They are trying to drag me into the pool at the Y here for exercise. The one at the PT gym is extra cool on MS days so I couldn't possibly go then. Still, just the idea of being wet and dripping and NOT in the water - being transferred in or out - is that freezes me!

Carrie, Is there a state college around there somwhere.They usually let locals use their pools when not in use. I have access to 2 pools and havent used either. Just plain laziness.
Jim you were at White Sand? Did you ever meet a nutty scientist named Feynhem? Not sure of the spelling. He was one of those who ran the FBI bonkers.Never obeyed rules would go for very long walks(sneaking out) in the middle of the night. Would bring home some unknown from a cafe.He was the object of bigtime hero worship for me.
You don't want a small water feature, You want a pool.

Debra, The humidity in ETEX and us is a big reality. At times it is like living in a suanna bath.You can get sloppy wet just walking to your car.
There is a big group of Etexans from near you on the Texas forum,you might like to check out. Just remember you belong to us first,or us to you.
Vickie

Hi Jim. My boss is a big nag...um, offers firm directed encouragement. When I bought my (first) house a few years ago, he made sure I got a big ol' 100' orange extension cord for outside use. Dallas can be at either end of the humidity spectrum, depending on the day and wind direction. But I work at a computer/electronics recycling company and we have some still working commercial fans that were dropped off. Bet I could try one of those... Have relatives in Shiprock and Farmington and they use "swamp coolers" that work really well in their dry climate. Would love to have a water feature, here. Didn't plan to put one in because of the mosquito-West Nile problems, and because water conservation has been so critical the last few years from the drought. Can't tell you how many plants disappeared from not watering every week. When I moved in, the only growing things beyond grass and trees were five Rose of Sharons and some nasty overgrown hollies. Started building up the yard and, if the description said 'drought tolerant' I just stuck 'em in the ground, watered them for the first month, and then waited to see if they survived on their own. The ones that came back, I put in more. If weeds grew in and they were pretty, left them, too. The roses and lavenders and thymes and gauras and daylilies and cannas and iris and and echinaceas and asiatic lilies and salvias all seem to do fine. Wow, it is so much fun saying all that! Really DO love my house...

Sorry, but I'm with Kay. The feature-that-must-not-be-named would be good for you. :-)

Carrie, agree with you-cold water with MS is beyond bad. Would make your muscles crackle up like three-layer mylar. Ouch!

Vickie, yeah, my former in-laws live in Jacksonville and my mom lived in Tyler for a few years before her death. Too humid for me. And I ain't going anywhere. Having a communication venue where people understand that limitations which can't be seen are still real is deeply comforting. Thank you all for being so welcoming. :-D

I love your house and yard. What is the shrub with the yellow green leaves? It sets the whole flowerbed off. Very pretty.
Vickie

It's a Summer Sorbet caryopteris. Have two of those and one Sunshine Blue around the yard. Inside this bed, you can see all the irises, and not yet popped up are two Veronicas, half a dozen Echinaceas, half a dozen daylilies (yellow and apricot/salmon), two East Friesland salvias, two cigar plants, two agapanthus, several liriopes, and a plumbago. The outside border has a lavender, four kinds of thyme, a fescue, two dianthus, and a trailing rosemary. Most of the weeds in this picture have been pulled and the plan is to mulch again if the rain holds off this weekend. Will post photograph later when it is really lush. Those strong young backs come in handy. This was my first flower bed. Got one of the kids from work to dig out a baseball field-shaped section for me right after I got the house and experimenting with it has been a delight ever since.

Debra

It'll be fun to keep up with your artistic thinking. Keep us updated.

Lately i've been re-arrainging my daylilly containers. When depressed and in doubt forget everything else and go re-arrainge my flowers. Good therpy but hard(for me)work. It's amazing what one can do with 40 large pots.

This message was edited May 14, 2010 9:18 PM

Wow, I love your house, too. LOL.
Vickie, You always heard stories about the antics of the scientist. Some of those were actually true? LOL. I was a lowly tech sergeant. I didn’t have the security clearances I imagine your husband had. I spent most of that tour at nearby Holloman. But, civilians are more likely to know where White Sands is located. (Jim)

Vickie, echoed you on another thread without knowing. The effects of everything to do with growing are amazing to me. Keeping up with 40 pots? That's hard work for anyone. Never thought to put daylilies in containers as a permanent feature. Bet they look great. Most of my daylilies are in the yellow/salmon/pinky range, but I've got those 10 new ones in four different shades of bright red. Really want to get them in the ground and see what they do!! The bed digging is supposed to start tomorrow if the thunderstorm forecast is wrong. Think the half dozen older ones in the side yard need to be moved, too. Good thing I restocked my "kid" credit yesterday. Summer classes are calling, and there is another one who now owes me 20 hours labor. He doesn't know I haven't even started on the back yard yet...moohahaha!!!

Here is a Black-Eyed Stella opened up this morning. First daylily bloom of the year for me.

There is nothing right about you having a daylilly blooming. I'm green with envy. I keep looking but alas not a hint of a bud stalk.Most of mine are yellow but i've some with pink,white,red and one purpleish. Containers are easy for me. They are just the right height to sit and work on them. So far no weeding.With some effort i can move containers around a little bit at a time. So i love them.Think it's been said here before that the whole world should go in for garden therapy.
I know the storys i heard about Feynham were true. I read everything he ever wrote. He could explain things so even i could understand it.But he was a fun nut. AL was never there. There is nothing lowly about tech sargents. I guarentee the armed forces can't function without them.
Vickie

Vickie, how large are your pots? Are they sitting on a smooth surface (concrete slab/patio/porch) or sitting in the grass? The reason I ask is I'm wondering if rolling platforms would help.
I felt guilty watching Kay struggle to move the large pots that held my ponytail palms so I made her little rolling platforms for the pots. The chair wheels I purchased from Home Depot were the only expense. I made sturdy platforms from scrap lumber. What was commercially available was just too flimsy for the price. And, by making them myself I was able to give the ladies a color and style they preferred.
Debra, between you, Bonnie, Vickie and the ladies here at Amargia Gardens, I’m going to end up as one of "those daylily people" if I'm not careful. lol. I thought all we had here were the orange ditch lilies on the wildflower slope, but one just popped up in my garden, Yep, it was pink. (Pink, white and yellow, if you want to get technical about it.) But, I like their form. Should I be worried? Is this how daylily addiction starts? (Jim)
.

Vickie, I think Jim is right. Had a container dwarf peach tree for a couple of years (gave it to a neighbor moving to Gilmer). Shifting it would have been difficult if not for the wheeled platform. 'Course, it was a cheap one from Lowes and broke when it hit a driveway crack too fast, lol, but I want to have a sturdy one built when it's time to permanently replant that container. Almost all of the daylilies are in bud and I will send photographs as they bloom to keep you going until yours open. Coming and going from work, can't resist taking pictures of everything as the blooms open up every year. It makes me feel good. :-)

Jim, it is exactly how that starts. :-) You see one or two you like, plant a couple for yourself, start exploring the infinite variety of color, then realize you have to do ab-soh-lute-ly nothing to them except divide every few years, and you are hooked. Some people don't like them because the blooms are ephemeral, but I think the foliage is attractive in its own right and blends in well with the other grassy-foliage plants in the front bed.

From another Lowes back rack. Put them all together here until big enough to see where they'd fit best. I'm a firm believer in color, fragrance, and music as "therapies" for a rainy mood. Think these will work :-)
Debra

My pots are mostly the big ones. probably hold 7 gal, some are smaller about 4 or 5 gal. They are heavy and i move them an inch at a time.LOL Most are on the ground but when i had a small porch and steps made for my DD, i purloined her old steps to put some of my pots on and i have some oak tree stumps for a few more.I love to re-arrange them. I pay for it later, but thats a part of gardening.
Debra, I'll be in Gilmer Friday for my BIL,s funeral. He'll be at Longview but i'll be staying with my SIL in Gilmer.
Jim, Debra is so right about getting addicted to Daylillys. You can stick any kind of flower in among the leaves and it looks good. There are so many shapes and sizes also. From 8" spiders to little 2"doubles in flowers and all heights too.
The coleus is beautiful. Mine has'nt got going yet.
The sun shone most of the day today and i had to waste it in town. Probably will tomorrow too. Oh Well, Come july i'll be wanting some clouds.
Kay you still need a cat? DD,s cat had kittens today.

Vickie, I'm sorry you have to visit Texas again for such a reason. Try not to get too tired out.
The container on platform is a clay pot about 30 inches high and 24 inches across. Don't know how much it holds, but it is HEAVY even with nothing in it. Can see where something with five or more gallons of soil would only be moved an inch at a time. :-) It really is too bad we aren't closer, or I could farm out "my" boys...
Kay, if you want cats, I've got just the thing. Momma Cat decided to have kittens in my neighbor's side yard and the neighbor decided to adopt them all. But she only took two when she moved. Asked me to feed the rest "just for a week or so until we get settled." That was last July. Can't quite bring myself to call the animal shelter. Looks like two were already neutered/spayed by the local catch-and-release org. They have the characteristic notches on one ear. My resigned they'll-keep-the-rats-out philosophy takes a hit when I accidentally step on or touch some of their, um, leavings. And they drive my dogs crazy. So I'll be happy to share any or all with you. lol

Debra

I wonder........Would'nt your boys like to visit the mountains for a working vacation?LOL

Now Kay,I asked first.
It's nice of you to put up with the kittys Debra.

I found 3 daylillys with bud stems. It is a fantastically beautiful world. Now the suspence begins. What color? What size? I predict at least one of them will be yellow.

Jim for some pictures of daylillys,this site in Missouri where i bought most of mine has some good pictures.
http://www.homesteadfarms.com/

Vickie, they might. Don't think any of them have ever seen a real mountain before. :-) My family lived in Denver for a few years when I was very young and I have fond memories of mountains. Except the one where my mother--who was the world's worst driver--took us four kids for a drive up Pikes Peak in a VW beetle. Now THAT one brings nightmares. lol

Yeah, I just can't seem to make myself call, even though I know it might be better for the cats in the long run. My company once picked up a load out of the Fort Worth area and, when we started to break down the pallets on the load, found three 3 1/2 week old kittens in a box. My boss had us take them to the vet, set aside an office in the warehouse just for the kittens, air conditioned, of course, and look around for homes. the other manager and I took turns feeding and medicating and cleaning up after them. One went at about eight weeks, but the other two took six months to home. whew

I think this one is Happy Returns. And happy, or at least safe, returns coming back from the territory of my eastern neighbors.

I've been to Pikes Peak. Don't know how a VW pulled that mountain.Did you get to stop and play in a snow puddle?
I think i've got Happy Returns but i never remember the names.

Got any ferrets? I prefer those. lol. I have finally accepted the fact that I’m not going to talk Kay into a ferret. And, I don’t think the house can take another attempt at mouse-ing by the dogs. Taterdog caught the last field mouse who ventured into the house, but she wrecked the kitchen in doing it. (Fenny’s mouse-ing exploits were even more destructive. It looked like a tornado swept thru the whole house.) Is there a male kitten in the bunch, Vickie? (Sorry, Debra. I won’t make it that far west on my trip. And, I think the post office frowns on sending kittens via post. lol. It would be nice not to be the only male in constant residence. Although, Kay tells me if I get a female cat the neighborhood cats won’t be hanging out here all the time. Female cats, she claims, are territorial and try to keep other cats out of their space. She says that is why the neighbor cats didn’t hang around when Catherine was alive. I always thought it was just because Cat had such an attitude. Witchy old cat! Loved to torment the dogs. A cat only blind people loved. Scary looking, but she had fur like silk. You hang out on the "Pets" forum a lot, Vickie. Think Kay is right or is my dearly beloved just trying to keep Amargia as a matriarchy. :-)
Kay got so excited today. A plumeria cane a DGer sent her is leafing out. You would have thought she had found a chest of gold in her garden. lol.
Didn’t you say you had a cigar plant in one of your beds, Debra? I have that one on my want list. Today, when I was working on updating Amargia’s lists, I was trying to decide whether or not to keep that one on. I put it there because I have heard it is an excellent hummingbird plant and I love my hummers. How is it working out for you in Zone 8? Have you had it long enough to form an opinion? (Jim)

Viclie, only my mother would have tried it. :-) I don't names, either, unless I remember to stick the plant marker by it.

Jim, no ferrets, sorry. My three dogs might not like the newcomer. Although mice seem to be safe from them. They just bark. The cigar plants have come back for the last three years. The first year it was in full bloom, I was standing at the door on the phone when it felt like the heavens opened and a rain of golden light poured down. "There's a _hummingbird_ in my yard!" In MY yard!! It was the most incredible moment. Haven't seen any since, but the cats came the next year, so that might have something to do with it. :-) The Agastache were delivered yesterday. Hoping that draws them in/back.
Debra

Like the boys in your work crew, Debra, I’m a flatlander. Jim is determined that I should see some “real” mountains. I’ve made countless trips to and from VT which means going through the Appalachians . Visited Mt. Washington while I was in VT. I fell in love with Cola de Caballo (Horsetail Falls) in the mountains outside of Monterey. Usually took vacations there when I lived in Galveston. None of those are exactly mole hills! But, Jim claims I still haven’t seen “real” mountains. I guess I’m going to have to make it far enough west to see these REAL Mountains of his. LOL.
The assertive, but softer scent-scape created by magnolias and lilies is beginning to replace the stronger muskier scents of wild honeysuckle and Japanese Ligustrum. This new scent-scape makes me think of the New Orleans Garden District. The honeysuckle/Ligustrum scent-scape it is replacing makes me think of Bourbon Street. Sweet, but over-the-top with dark undertones. So it is like you’ve just left Bourbon Street and are headed into the garden district. LOL.
We still haven’t come up with an ideal way to keep up with what is planted where that will work for everyone at Amargia. It is like you have to choose between knowing what things are and having the landscape cluttered with tags or going “uh-h-h” when someone inevitably asked you the name of a plant. Kay*

Kay, the Rockies are spectacular and I think you have visited a few 'real' mountains already. :-) Love the idea of a scent-scape, and your description of it! Trying to put fragrant shrubs and such in the yard with the flowers, too. Have a huge rosemary that is awesomely aromatic when I am watering and get it wet. Nutmeg, orange balsam, spicy orange, lemon, and Archers Gold thymes mix with the lavenders and oregano and artemsia. They look AND smell wonderful. Can you make markers from clay or plaster -- or cement :-) -- that have an outline of the plant or flower, the name etched, and/or maybe set in braille, too? They would weather beautifully and might be a lot of fun to make. My company just participated in a green festival at the Heard Natural Science Museum and Wildlife Sanctuary. They have some great markers. I'd be happy ask for more information from them if you'd like?
Debra

When you visited MT. Washington, Did you see their Vermont Coon cat. They always keep a cat in residence for winter company.
My dogs look at mice as new members of the family. Miss Kitty after playing with them for awhile does them in. I think it is gross so don't watch.

This forum is my #1 love and the pet forum is my#2 love. I'm a sometime visitor on a couple more forums. There is an ongoing thread on the herb forum,I love also, Still Looking For Chocolate Basil thread. (A seldom serious thread)

Have you ever put a hummingbird feeder up Debra.
I used to have 6 or more up but quit when my DD put some up. They are fun to watch.
I have one round acrilic marker on the ground. There are forms you can buy to make your own.

Our mountains are not big mountains. like the rockies but i like them.We're still a different grow zone than the Valley. The mountains in NC and E Tenn are bigger than ours.

Would love to hear about your nutmeg(tree,plant)
Jim To some of us, Every plant that comes up is a treasure chest. We'll usually fight for it as such too. LOL

Vickie, the first yellow lily to open this year. Another Lowes gift, they just keep coming back and spreading. Something to welcome you back from ETX. :-)

The nutmeg is a thyme variety. Found a specialty mail order and got all kinds of fun scents. The orange balsam smells kind of weird, but it's attractive...

Debra