General Discussions - 2010 - Chapter 29

http://www.carolinacountry.com/cgardens/thismonth/march09guide/Straw3.09.pdf


I'm having trouble with this, It may be because it is Kent's. but try Googling that maybe it will work. Guess I need a lesson on getting a website to transfer.
Or better yet if Kent gets a break he may post it again.
Russ

Okay, Yes I do know what tposts are and also what a pain they are to get out. Yep, that is what we are using for our pig fencing. At least thats what I call it. The rectangels are 2" x 4" and it is about 4 ft tall.
"

In panels tho. Not rolls. Hog panels are different. They are about a third of the width they are narrow holes and then they spread out over the rest of the panel to where they are the same as the cattle panels. In fact hog panels are a couple dollars more than cattle panels.

Jnette,
I was thinking of cucumbers, pole beans, and tomatoes. I'm sure the cucumbers and beans would climb the arch but don't know whether they would lower the produce down to me so that I could pick it from beneath the "tunnel." I think the tomatoes would climb, too, but might need quite a bit of help to follow the curve up and not sprawl away from it. What do you think?
Lynda,
After further thought, I believe you are right. For safety's sake, if nothing else, I'll want to fasten the arched panels with more than just the bales sitting there.
Catmad,
I didn't describe my idea very clearly. I'll try again. Picture three bales touching each other end to end. Then, each bale has a "buddy" beside it, touching along the sides.
This makes a block of six bales, three long and two wide, placed together so that the block measures about nine feet long and 32 inches wide. (I think my bales are about 36" long x 16" wide x 14" thick.) Now, I'm standing beside these six bales, with them to my right, and eight feet or so to my left I place six more bales, similarly positioned. Then, bend two 16 foot long cattle panels between the blocks of bales to make the arch (trellis). I thought the bales might hold the panels in place, but now think it would be better to tie the ends, now on the ground, together with eight foot lengths of wire. This would make an arched tunnel eight feet wide and about six feet high at the top. The climbing plants would go into the bales next to the cattle panels, and other things could be planted in the "outside" bales.
Just thinking...and maybe not too clearly.
Lee

Jnette, am having trouble trying to picture how you made your hoop house... do you have any pictures you could post? Would love to be able to see it. Also if anyone doesn't know what a t-post is try this Southern States web page http://www.southernstates.com/catalog/p-2151-southern-post-6ft-125lbft-t-post-green.aspx
When trying to pound them into the ground... I found it is much easier to stand on one of those three step step ladders or the back tailgate of my pickup truck to pound it in with a sledgehammer (a must) with someone holding it steady while you pound..(in my case it's more like tapping.. the Paul Bunion routine is a bit too terrifying to the person stuck holding the post for me!)

No this is like chicken wire only much heavier duty. It comes in 100 ft rolls. Each opening is a rectangle 2" x 4". and you use the 4 posts to wire it on to.

nini1953; and all. I have made a steel (T) post driver, from a pipe that fits loose around the post and found a short piece of round stock steel that just fits inside one end. the pipe is about 40" long and the round stock is about 4". I welded the round stock into the one of the pipe. No more ( when i nod my head hit it) lol the round stock and the pipe weighs slightly more than a good sledge. makes driving a T post a breeze.
I don't know the cost right off hand but farm home stores sell a driver like this. I just happened to have all the material on hand, so I made my own.

when it is tough to pull the post back out. I have used an old car tire rim, a small short chain looped around the post and a bar, using the old wheel rim for a fulcrum, prying down on the bar with the chain secured to the bar and the post. the post is lifted out, unless it is in concrete. There are many other ways that work. but this is pretty simple.
Russ

Gourdbeader; are you referring to concrete reinforcing wire???
That is what comes to mind when I try to picture that wire.

Oh boy, I don't even know where I would look for the pictures. Just a few of my hh. But, for your information what we did was used 1x6 boards the length of the hh in which we drilled 1/4" holes and then used baling wire to tie the ends of the panels so they were all together. Kind of finished off where they meet the ground. Then we put those in place and held them there with 30" rebar every 4 feet about again holes drilled in the board and tied the rebar with baling wire. We made the hh 8 ft across (between the bottoms of the panels) on the ground. We did both sides that way with the boards and then we used baling wire to fasten the panels together in 3 or 4 places along each "seam" over the top.. When we finished the highest part of the panels was about 6 feet high. Just an arch. We covered it with visquene (sic) to start the plants in April and left it on depending on the weather, until about mid June. Then we took it off for a couple of months and put it back on about the first week of September. Again depending on the weather reports. (boy do we depend on those guys!!).

We didn't do any fancy things on the ends like framing door etc. Wer just hung some of the plastic down and then just pulled a corner back to get in and out.

All I did, was line the sides with the bales and that way I had the wire of the panels to tie the tomato vines up with. Or, cucumbers or whatever. One year I had a row down the middle and had to string the plants up to the top but that was kind of a headache.

The reason we did the plastic the way we did was to extend the season of course. Both ends.

One mistake we made was about the 3rd year we decided to cover it with a blue tarp because each winter we had been storing our boat in there. But, for some reason we just decided to do the tarp thing. Well that was a winter that we would get snow, several inches, and it would turn to ice. Then we would get several more and that would turn to ice. It kept on like that until it became too heavy for the cattle panels and they caved in. My DH had to take them apart in the spring and lay them individually out in the driveway and flatten them out and then put them back together again. Kind of a big job.

Moral of the story is, if you live in snowy country, it is best not to cover the hh. I suppose if you put supports under it at the highest peak that it would work. It really is good winter storage if done right and don't expect too much from it.

Good luck. Jeanette

I have also heard of people using just a truck jack to take them out also. Not sure what they do, but somehow.

Bob picked one of those things up at a garage sale Russ. I don't think he has ever used it, but just one of those things you can't pass up for a couple of bucks. LOL, isn't it funny how those things have a habit of accumulating in the garage to the point that you can't find it when you need it.

One day I was waiting for him at the feed store and a woman came out with a strange looking tool over her shoulder. I asked her what it was. It was a compost pile stirer. She said it cost $20+. So, the next summer Bob came out to the car at a garage sale with one just like it he had paid a dollar for. The guy didn't know what it was.

Never know.

taters55 - In this thread, go back up to and see Jan 30-randbponder and Jan 31-KentNC. They both have article that describe the process from the beginning. I am a newbie myself and had asked those questions. Apparently there are threads for strawbale gardening going back several years also.

Hey! I bought my very first bales. They are the barley straw bales and they knocked a couple bucks off because portions of them got wet last week in the rain, so they were $3 each. We were only able to fit 11 in the truck, but we can go back. I laid them out end to end, after all with a little zig and zag to go around a bush. We have no grass, so I don't need to worry about a lawnmower, just leaving space for mowing.

Wow you lucked out!! That was great. Good buy!! You can buy us all some. LOL

Kent's post, May 11 - 09 has the link to the article. If you keep going back that far, that link will get you a good deal of information.

This is what I am talking about

Yes, I think that is called hogwire. It isn't as thick a wire as the panels. It surely will hold that little Phoebe girl in though. Guess what tho Jan, I can just see her digging under next. LOL, she does look like a digger.

Jeanette

hi jnette---randbponder looking for the address for (t-shirt) i need a t-shirt. help- jim

Jim, go up in the right hand corner of this screen and type in stawbale tee shirt. Google has it.

Jeanette

yep, i have thought about that and we are going to put like tent stakes to help curb the idea. I am with her pretty much 24/7 so I can keep an eye on her. Now you just made me think about the fact that as she gets a bit larger she could probably jump over it. I am hoping that she will be well behaved enough by then that she won't consider doing that. Hum.....

What kind of dog is she Jan? You know, my sister put about a foot of chicken wire flat on the ground all around the fence so the dogs would not try to dig under. and also to keep other animals out too. She was trying to keep the dogs in, one golden retriever and one mini Aussie shepherd. She put it on the inside of the fence. They never did dig out. You can't watch 24/7 to see if they try. But the wire would hurt their feet.

I would think that would work for animals thinking about digging into chicken pens etc. Howerver for that I would imagine you would almost have to cover the entire bottom of the pen. Weasels etc.

Lee wrote;"This would make an arched tunnel eight feet wide and about six feet high at the top. The climbing plants would go into the bales next to the cattle panels, and other things could be planted in the "outside" bales.
Just thinking...and maybe not too clearly."

Sounds good to me :). I didn't realize that you would have a 6 foot clearance (so that shows who isn't thinkin' clearly) but that should be plenty to harvest under. I'm lucky, I wouldn't even have to crouch. The 'maters won't be a problem once you get them started, by tying them for a coupla feet, until they begin to follow the curve. As long as they're indeteminates, they'll just keep on climbing...

Jnette wrote about winter sowing;"Not too sure what veggies you could do that with, but you could plant some flowers in them.

Maybe you could do some cool weather plants that way. I wouldn't recommend tomatoes. 'course someone will come along and say you can. That's ok too"

Jeanette, I'm getting so impatient, that i guess I'm going to kinda do that, at least it is a variation :)> I'm going to put out my lettuce, radish and onion seeds, and hope for the best. Their "bed" is ready, and I figure the principle of winter sowing is that they'll germinate when they're ready.
I think it would certainly work for tomatoes, but you wouldn't get such a quick start as with indoor sowing . However, the WS ones might well catch up as the season progresses, as do the ones that volunteer. I'm gonna try a few, I think. I certainly have enough seeds.....

That fencing is what we call, in this neck of the woods, horse fencing, except ours is 5 ft tall and thinner wire. We have wily goats and a miniature pinscher who does like digging into the neighbor's yard, so we dig a little trench and stick the wire down into it with stakes. For the dog, we really need to then pour concrete in the trench. That is what we did on our common fence wikth the flood control chain link. W went down a foot, put metal fencing in and concrete. Wanted to keep coyotes out.

She is a golden lab and she hasn't really started digging I am usually ontop of her most of the time. But as you say I can't watch her 24/7 but pretty darn close.
There is a pic of her sitting ontop of a bale farther up this thread.

Yes, you can't tell at her age, she does look like a golden. We had one, such a wonderful dog, she had a stroke at 14 years old so we had to put her down. They are one of the better breeds for pets. If I didn't have 2 dogs already I would have one of those. Don't know about being a digger. I guess some do and some don't.

Good Evening to all,
I want to start out saying thanks to Kent for finding this method of gardening and for the chance to grow Tomatoes again this year. Last year my garden was hit with early and late blight and destored all 60 plants that I had planted. Of course I was not the only one to have this happen to for alot of the local veggie farmers lost over 1/2 they crop last year as well. But when i start looking for a new way to grow the amount of Tomatoes that I do, I all but gave up. Until I found the forum started by Kent and was thrilled. I have to admit i have read all the chapters and I think all of you are wonderful bunch of people and have amazed me with the knowledge that you all have.
I thought I let you all know that i have bought my first round of 25 bales of hay and planned out my tomatoes already.I have 25 more bales coming for cukes and squash but i have not planned out where they are going yet. It is still to early to start plant here in Zone 4 of vermont but I'm working on my greenhouse and wintersowing to make spring come faster for me.
I'm hoping all of you have healed from the misfortunes that have happen in the last year and that all of the rest of you are doing well.

East

Just got back on, Yep; that is not concrete reinforcing wire, gourdbeader.
I should have remembered, I've used it before. I used it for a chicken enclosure, with an additional roll of chicken wire around the bottom to keep out some of the smaller predatory varmints out. It didn't work for raccoons, as they are better climbers. I had to outsmart them with a 24" roll tipped out on the top. Next were Hawks. I gave up. lol

Hi East.

I would like to suggest to all of you newbies that you go into your preference screen and put in your location and zones. So often you discuss things in your areas or ask questions, sometimes for help, but it is super hard to figure out the answers when we look up by your name and there is none there.

Different answers for different locations. Please, go into "my info" at the top of the screen and then into managing preferences. Just fill in those things. Not birth dates if you don't want to, but if you are going to want answers, we will need that. Another thing that is nice is names. Sometimes we can figure out who you are, but just picking a portion of your signon is very impersonal. Just my opinion. Thanks, Jeanette

Holy toledo, 50 bales East 459. You are going to have a huge garden. Be sure to take loads of photos. I really got to see this. I feel like I am doing good with 9 and I feel like I could do about 4 more but wow, 50. way to go. Good luck

that person is truly ambitious Jan. Wish I had the energy to do something like that. LOL,

Jeanette

wow, me too. My surgery is scheduled for March 4th so I need to get as much done before then. Hopefully I can get the strawberries planted. They are suppose to be in next week. Will keep my fingers crossed. Oh, wait a minute, this is next week. I will have to go check and see whats happening.

I only have 25, and would be happy to have 30 more. 25 would only allow for 50 kinds of 'maters, and that's at one plant each variety. Unfortunately, I think I need something else as well, peppers for salsa, squash, because I'm addicted, watermelon, and on and on. Strawberries sounds like fun, too.
Some will have to go into the ground, I guess.
To me, 50 isn't really a lot, just enough *G*.

Maybe....

Margo

Well, I do grow other goodies too but strawberries are the most important crop in my book. I do sugar snap peas, herbs, tomtoes in my ground beds along with my squash. Zuchinni on the bales though. Hope it starts getting warmer though. Although, its suppose to be 59 degrees here today. Wow, a dang heat wave for crying out loud. Heheh. Come on spring.

LOL Watermelon in bales gives me visions of hanging XXL slings on a huge trellis, to hold all those 40 to 50lb. delectable fruits. Not that it shouldn't be done. I just have a weird senseless imagination. Like be careful don't let one fall on your head!!
I've run cucumbers on a trellis for quite a while now, Even before trying bale gardening. I have to add that before using a trellis, I sure stepped on a lot of vines as well as cucumbers and tomatoes.
Margo, I'm with you on addicted to watermelon,muskmelon, squash, cucumbers, sweet corn, Yep the list goes on and on. I can always take some to some of the really elderly and then there's always the needy. I like to plant extra. That way I'm usually assured of plenty to get through the next winter. I also have a mean recipe for pumpkin bread, so there has to be room for pumpkins too.
I have to be reasonable, or frugal when it comes to the number of bales. Hay bales around 8- 9 $ a bale, straw a little less but it can get $$pendy, in a big garden.
Russ

Jan, where do you get your strawberry plants from?

I am sending you all a little spring
Just click and drag anywhere on the blank screen and you will get a wonderful
springtime surprise.

http://www.procreo.jp/labo/flower_garden.swf

This message was edited Feb 17, 2010 2:51 PM

Thanks. Gotta get out (in our 80- degree sun) and water my bales. The seeds I started inside are germinating and a couple are not going to wait for the straw to be ready and will need to transplant them into an intermediary pot. Russ, I also have high hopes that I will be able to grow enough to be able to donate to those in need this summer and fall. After my first 2 years of gardening in the ground then in pots, I'd say I have VERY high hopes. Ha-Ha

Lynda

Jan, where are you getting your strawberry plants from? LOL, I did enjoy the flowers you sent. Jeanette

We haven't made up to 40 in over 2 months now, would gladly accept just a little of that 80. It was clear last night and we could actually see the stars, so maybe it will soon start warming up. We have had more minus temp days
this year than what we have for a long time. Oh well as I have said before, the skeeters don't bite in this kind of weather.
Have to tell about a real garden failure. I tried to grow tomatoes in Phoenix, on the zone 4 schedule. I had a vine but that is all I can say about it. lol
Tell you what I can spare a couple feet of this snow. I'll trade for one day of 80 degree weather. He he he.
Russ

I get mine at our local feed and seed. Thery are everbearing and one other kind, I can't remember but when I go to pick them up on Friday I will find out.

hi all--i got 20 more bales today. step son got laid off so he help me. got them on the pickup. it well get down to 18 tonite so we can drive back to the garden. maybe. got snow. the sun was out today. so me &my dog --blue--got out he sure enjoyed it. i got 10 more bales to get. hope you all had as good a day as i did. it sure was good to get out. jim.