Pipeline in Paradise

Got a letter last week from a gas pipeline co. saying they want to run a 24" pipe across our property. These guys seem to be in a hurry and we've put off a meeting till next week as we research compensation and rights. They're already planning to move it away from the house , where the plans now have it, and seem to understand their lowball offer for right of way and damages is inadequate.

Do you have any experience with this? I'm somewhat alarmed about what I've googled and read this a.m.

Call your area government representative and talk to him - he might offer you some ideas.

And the neighbors - track along where they want to build the thing, and touch base with everyone. (You can use the property tax records, which are public down at the courthouse, to find out the legal owners.)

AntiquedRose ~ if I may express my sympathy. I tend to take a dim view of the boom that is taking place in east TX. I am one of those that liked it as a sleepy backward area. A time warp ~ if you will. I think the consequences of the damage done to this area will be far reaching. Water being a primary concern of mine. I will say those that have pipeline leasing experience say the property is restored to nothing more than an easement similar to the power company easements. In fact, I have heard they are running some of these pipelines in conjunction with the power lines.

I sympathize with your dilemma but will also suggest you contact an attorney experienced in these matters. If I am not mistaken, I believe that they can condemn your property for construction of this nature and that will net you virtually nothing. Emminent domain is that type of seizure and as I understand it, this is a major pipeline to transport utilities therefore subject to this process.

Best wishes... pod

Don't sell it........lease it. Get an ongoing income from it. And make sure they have adequate insurance.

Hey Ya'll,

Dragging out of bed (flu) to string together this; thanks for your comments. Taking all comments to heart. You're really appreciated.


antiquedrose

Aw ~ sympathy for the flu too. Especially with something like this hanging on your mind. Best wishes on both.

I can't speak for how it is here in TX, but in NM when they drill a well on my folks place, they are paying up to 15K per well. Though that land is useless after drilling because of the well head and road, a pipeline easement makes your land unusable as well. You can never build on that land within the right of way. Good luck to you. It is a pain.

We have a 24" natural gas pipeline that runs through our yard (owned by Atmos Energy) - bought the house with it. It was put in when this land was ranch land. It runs the length of the yard, front to back.

There is a 50 foot easement running over the top of it. (20 feet of the easement is in our neighbors yard because the actual gas line is running next to the property line.) No permanent buildings or driveways can be built within the easement. According to the person I spoke with after buying the house, the line is usually a good 15 to 20 feet deep too. To get that deep, they really have to dig wide, so you will have a mess for sure.

Not sure of value, but we have an abnormally large lot for the neighborhood. We got the county assessor to reduce the value of the additional land for tax purposes. Of course this is in the city where land only can be valued $54,000 for .44 acres.

Thanks everyone. Today I'm in a good mood and shall keep various rants I have about this issue under wraps, for now. I will say Podster and I are on the same page, exactly!

We are talking to neighbors and their opinions vary. Some think we've hit the jackpot (for a few thou) and others are concerned. Some are signing up for anything offered and others are lawyered up and are fighting mad. The pipeline companies buy and do not lease the land, as I understand it.

We have small acreage, especially compared to some ranches around here. If this pipeline remains as it's planned, it will run along a powerline easement that edges our property, turn and run right in front of the house and continue on across the property. The thing is, we built this house facing the back of the property. They'll be tearing up the prettiest part of the land. It wouldn't take many degrees to move the pipe off this land entirely. Maybe they'll do that.

What's for sure is, they'll do what ever they want to do. We have no rights. We can only hope to not get entirely ripped off.

My poor DH tried to soften the blow when he first told me about the pipe line saying, "They said you can have the mulch" when they grind up my pines. I didn't know whether to laugh at the audacity or scream at the unmitigated gall.

Remember the Beverly Hillibillys? In real life, they would have been offered tins of snuff for their land/rights.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/013008dnmetgaslines.39b077b.html

I'm interested in what anyone else has to add.

This is my DH responding. He worked in the oil industry for 33 years and has some knowledge of this. Here's what he says:

My advice is do not hire a lawyer. The pipeline company will pay surface damages based on the area, and no more. My experience has been that pipeline companies usually try to be good neighbors and will try to accommodate special needs if you contact them personally. From my limited exposure to pipeline construction, I would expect a steep-walled trench will be dug about ten feet deep and four feet wide, with a trencher which minimizes the footprint. The pipeline company will be happy to answer those kinds of questions.
Good luck.

Anyway, that's what he said. I hope this is helpful.
CJ

Your DH's perspective is appreciated CJ, be sure and thank him for me. I like the idea of a minimal footprint.

DH answer directly to the pipeline co's proposed lease was to request the depth of the pipeline be 4 feet rather than 3 feet, the easement 50' rather than 30', and then there's the money. He hasn't heard back.
My DH is very understated, a savey businessman and a gentleman. If these pipeline men can't work with him, it's hopeless with those in similar circumstances. The pipeline company has plenty of money to afford to even remotely compensate landowners fairly and look friendly in the process.

We haven't hired an attorney, but but that's an option. We've had the benefit of consulting with a pipeline person unrelated to this situation, referred by an oil and gas attorney relative. Maybe we need a second opinion.

The kind lady from Florida suggested contacting our area govn't. Sadly, contacting them is last on my list. Permit me to speak from experience: the law is on industry's side. In this case, the expectation for me is to get out of the way and don't ask for too much.



.

Unbelievable. As I was typing on the fireplace thread, guys roll up with clearing equipment "for the lateral pipeline, not the main one to come across your property".

I told them we don't have a signed lease with the pipeline company for any pipeline and they can't drop a stick till we do!! They want to clear through one of the few patches of real woods we have, in addition to the pine stand.

They are gone now. At least for now. Big Daddy Pipeline Co needs to get it's paper work in order for ALL the lines they want to place. Some nerve.

I really need to drop my BP before pressing send but I'll feel this way later. Forgive the harshness.

The "environmentalist" contracted by the pipeline co (let that sink in) are here as I type, checking out the area looking for sensitive hotpoints. These darling young women (one with a biology degree) are popping in for tea and a visit, once they complete their walk. I'll ask them how they liked the eagle's nest and if they got too bogged down in our wetlands.

Luckly for these women, they did not have to dance with the doberman, as the survery guys did the other day when they came back unannounced.

The pipeline boys ran out to talk the afternoon of the12th, after meeting with DH in town. They say they have one hand behind their backs, a living to make, mouths to feed, etc. As they stood their in their best JCP hold a messy manilla folder with DH's name written in scrawl, I sorta felt sorry for them. I feel sorrier for us. You too, if you're in the greater Dallas area and will get your drinking water from the lake being built between Jac and Nac. That's another issue.

About the easement issue: The elec co protects their easement and it's environs, demanding the pipefolk keep x feet away from it's easement and surrounding area. Their easement has an easement.

One link listed below features an article about a TX community sitting atop gas (didn't they name themselves after a corp?, ironic) and a link to a (working w/i the system) group interested in landowners rights.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-gas-drilling-pollution,0,3873974.story

http://groups.google.com/group/landowners-rights-alliance?hl=en

Quick! Make a pond! For migratory water fowl.

Let's see, could this possibly be growing in that area? http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/species/endang/plants/wbladder.phtml

When you mentioned,

Thanks Pod for the update on the once proposed drinking water source for Dallas, courtesy of East Texas. I, for one, am glad you're informed. Some suggest drinking water will be impacted by fracturing the Haynesville Shale to extract natural gas and that area extends from Western Lousiana to East Texas.

The Jac to Nac area once under consideration for Dallas' drinking water needs is now building a biomass plant to supply power to Austin. More info: http://www.thecherokeean.com/news/2009-10-28/Front_Page/Southern_Power_to_take_over_Sacul_biomass_plant.html

Be wary of discarded projects. Some are rebranded and presented as something else. The Trans Texas Corridor is now Innovative Connectivity in Texas. Reference: http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=1303 Blackwater is now Xe. See: http://www.tulsabeacon.com/?p=1303

Hey, DG! A real obnoxious popup of a talking couple and other stuff covered this message board as I sat thinking what to type! Stop That!

Where was I? Oh, I will ask DS if he's seen that beautiful plant, he's all over this place on foot. Also, we have a good sized spring-fed pond you can almost skip rocks across from the proposed lateral line. If that makes a difference, we haven't heard.

I need to be nice about the pipeline's environmental contractors. Maybe I'm easy, but I really enjoyed these women and we had a good visit over tea. Part of the potentially affected area was designated as a wetland. This increases the cost of laying line, as they bore underground, rather than trench and that technique increases cost.

An archaeologist team is on board to scout the creekbed. No kidding. I expect we'll see them soon.

I believe you can turn off the popups and ads on this site. I've not ever gotten them.

Not 100% on the Neches... a lot can change before it filters down to this level but that was the last I had read. I hope that area will remain unmolested. I also protest providing water when there is no move toward education on water conservation.

A well driller I have spoken to said it is indeed possible to change the water tables by fracturing or seismograph activity. Also already noting an increase in sodium in water testing. However, the water in this area is receiving ground water from 50+ miles north of us so who knows what is causing the changes. I can't help wonder about the saltwater disposal wells even though they are supposed to dump into sealed stratas. I can't help wondering what we are leaving for the future generations.

RE: pop up ads. heres what admin sent me,

You can manage your ad experience from your
profile page. (My Info) Click Manage your Preferences, and then select
'Ads' in the column at the side of the page.

Wow RATFOOD, many thanks. Your specific and helpful instructions saved the day. I changed my preferences and the ads, including the movie type, should all go poof! I had already decided to go poof myself if these ads continued. I'm still chuckling over "ad experience", thanks for the grins too.

Another pair of environmentalist walked the area Saturday afternoon. This time DH met them and was told they were here to confirm the previous findings.

The pipeline guy told us he's condeming our land to make way for the pipelines.

This was after the young fellow showed up with a check and lease of which my husband declined. Their lawyers would reinsert paragraphs they had agreeded to remove. They inserted points of interest for themselves we had not discussed at all.

You would not believe what is happening around here! A good friend of ours has had his georgeous property condemned and is set to go to trial next year.
Meanwhile the pipeline will be placed across his property within weeks.

We have no property rights! Neither do you.

We now have a lawyer and will be out big bucks for this unfair fight.

What chance do we have when even nature preserves are subject to eminent domain? Check this link out:

http://www.heardmuseum.org/theheard/PreservationCampaignUpdate.asp

Something definitely needs to happen to protect landowner's rights.

AntiquedRose ~ I am sorry you are having to go thru this. I am truly sorry that your land will be condemned for this pipeline. It would seem we can no longer get away from it. DH has always said "Of course you don't own your land. Just don't pay your taxes and you will see who owns it". Emminent domain is just another erosion of our freedoms.

Sadly in this case I am sorry to have been correct in my earlier post. I loved the sleepy backward ways of the little community we have chosen to call home. I resent all the changes which progress is bringing, the increased traffic, the constant noise, the rape of the land. Were I younger, I would search for another area to relocate to but we have spent in excess of 35 years here and it is now home. My sadness and thoughts are with you in this battle...

... and I assure you, I will listen to no one that wants to complain when fuel (both gas and oil) costs increase. They were quick to take the dollars offered to sacrifice this little piece of heaven!

That heardmuseum link, dfwdennis, mirrows what is happening around here. Reasonable thoughtful proposals are discarded like so much trash. The insult of not having ANY voice in something so important is flabbergasting!

I joke about moving in with our son, who lives across from the Piney Woods Native Plant Center, assuming that area will remain untouched. The more I learn, the less likely that seems.

I'm sorriest for my son, who so loves the Piney Woods. He wants to live about as rural as he can and his choices are diminishing by the minute.

Podster, is it the gas boom affecting your area or population creep from a nearby city. Whatever it is, I know it's vexing. With this fracturing method of gas extraction, more areas of this country will be affected. But this is what we get when the sexually suggestive "drill baby drill" brings screams of laughter.

Remind me to tell ya'll the story at the ETRU of chasing off surveyors while draped in the American Flag.

Ugh, sorry to hear that happened to you. As for the "environmentalists," I am one of them. In all actuality, despite having been hired by the pipeline company, they are held to and have to adhere to federal laws. They are objective and they would have presented honest findings, regardless of what the pipeline company wants.

That being said, it isn't fair that you have to fight condemnation when they were being sneaky about the whole thing. Its your land!

I have quite a long time before I can retire to the country, but these kind of stories make me think twice about that idea. I hope something is done soon. The idea of buying a beautiful rural retreat only to have it destroyed by big business is demoralizing. It is doubly infuriating when you find out that there are alternatives that will not be pursued, in the interest of cost saving and convenience for the company. Eminent domain should be the absolute last resort!

Antiquedrose, I wish you the best in your fight.

The pipeline co sent out a 2nd team of enviromnentalist who confirmed we do have wetlands.

But frankly, after the previous occupiers of the WH, I'll just bet what protections we did have have been eviscerated, especially in these matters.

Thanks dfwdennis for your thoughtful concern, not only for us, but others who treasure the rural lifestyle.

It is both the drilling and the encroaching population. Experimental wells are now being drilled under Toledo Bend. In general, I fear most for all water supplies.

Without my delving deeply into my many opinions about todays' society nor blaming any political entities, I fear we must accept responsibility for bringing all this upon ourselves and our day of reckoning has arrived.

Must say I feel like an anachronism, born 100 years too late. The times, they are changing!

I live on top of the Barnett Shale (and haven't signed any leases), and have been following the stories of homeowners in Fort Worth getting their land condemned to run pipelines. I have also been reading about the potential environmental impacts of pumping all of those chemicals into the ground. I really like Grapevine and Fort Worth, and am concerned about the long term effects on this area. Small monthly checks are just not worth it. At this point, I wish that they had never found natural gas around here!

Dennis, I spoke with an editor of Texas Monthly yesterday who's more familiar with the Barnett Shale and now is becoming aware of the Haynesville Shale. I'm gathering info and contacts for him and with any luck, TM will do a story on all of this.

Got a letter our property is to be condemed by the pipeline attorney. My husband spoke with this man who reported he did not ever recieve any communications between us and the guys in the field.

It looks like the lines will come through and they will keep the wetlands intact and bury the lines through that area. That attorney is consulting with his higher ups to get all of us on the same page. May happen this week. May not.

Meanwhile, I've been diagnosed with breast cancer as of today. Will be seen at MDAnderson soon for further assessment then treatment. I'm on the prayer request list.

Seems like it's always something, doesn't it?

I am so sorry to hear you have to go thru both of these heartaches. I wish you only the best. I can't help but feel the Lord has a way of humbling us sometimes to show us what is truly important in our lives. Yes, you will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Lolol, when I drove down our road immediately after talking with my surgeon and pathologist, and saw a gaggle of Haliburton Trucks on the side of the road a mile from tje house, I didn't blink an eye. Got too much on my plate now. I will say issues of health, including enviro have been of interest to me always.

God has placed me right where I need to be and will continue to do so. I have no regrets of being outspoken when necessary. Two issues in particular ja e come to me, I didn't go looking for them. Nor do I get involved in some things perhaps I should. I prayfully consider actions and keep God in the loop, at least when I'm being good!

Obviously I have an urgent personal issue and my task is to stay focused on getting well and not scaring the wits out of my family.

Thank you Pod for your kindness, I think we'd have a ball at a RU.
be

antiquedrose
sending prayers for you and your family..If theres anything I can do please let me know.

This message was edited Mar 17, 2010 6:07 AM

Thanks blkraven2, your prayers are so very appreciated. Even over the 'net your kindness given is really strengthening.

Here is a link for the Texas Landowner Bill of Rights. This is law. Before your property is condemned, you are entitled to a hearing before a court appointed panel that includes three special commissioners.


http://www.oag.state.tx.us/agency/Landowners_billofrights.pdf


I hope this helps. Also, you are in our prayers!