Corner by house, problem area, suggestions?

This is a picture of a corner bed in the back yard. It gets morning sun until late afternoon. The soil was clayish but has been refilled with good compost and top soil before this tree was planted.

Also, this picture of the weeping cherry and the area is now 3 years older . I didn't pick the tree out, the landscape company put it there and I liked it then - just didn't know better.

The tree is too big for the area now - more importantly - I'm afraid that eventually the roots will cause problems with the foundation of the house.

Any suggestions as to what to plant there? The area needs some height. I've been looking at shrubs and ornamental trees until I'm cross eye'd!

Thanks for looking!

Would an evergreen conifer work or do you want flower/foliage? I see Cherries ripping up the pavement all over town. What characteristics of a tree are you looking for?

I love the idea of an evergreen conifer in there for year around color. That area has new plants since that picture was taken, flowering perennials, so the tree doesn't need to have any.

Is there a conifer that has a tap root?

I'm just guessing a tap root would be the safest to plant so close to the house - but that's just a guess - I have no real idea.

I'm open to any suggestions for a safe tree or shrub for the area, thanks for looking!

Annie

I was also thinking of putting a large stone/cement container there and planting a shrub or small tree in it. The only argument for it would be I wouldn't have to worry about root problems at all, only pot bound shrub/trees.

Take a look at some of the Hinoki False Cypress (Chamaecyparis obtusa) entries as I know there are a few that stay to relatively manageable size: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/54187/ . I sold a number of them this year including one called 'Kosteri' and they tend to remain small enough so you don't have to worry about root/foundation damage. Here's a juniper that I love but might not work in your situation: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/62573/ - the ones in my area don't grow fast or large and have remained small enough for a courtyard garden. This one might keep narrow: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/60701/ but I'm not sure about roots on either Juniper.

If the site has good summer irrigation you could look at one of these zone 6 Camellias: http://www.greergardens.com/camellias1.htm or here: http://www.camforest.com/Default.asp?Redirected=Y as it looks like there is protection from the house during winter.

Just some ideas to throw out there.

How about using vines?? I'm not sure what exactly would grow in your zone but using some sort of flowering vine that would creep up the bricks would break up the mono color of the wall and if you pick out something that flowers for a while you could make yourself a colorful corner. In front of the vine(s) you could plant flowers of various heights and bloom times. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/147/ that might work depending on how much sun that area gets.

I lean toward gaudy tropical so that might not be for you but it's an idea.

The other way you could go is a small umbrella type of tree and use the area under it as a small sitting area.

The last thing I can think of is a nice water feature especially if you entertain at night.

Now that I think about it I'll be up next week. Vines or climbing hydrangea on the walls, brick pavers and a water feature in the corner(can build a big one for a few hundred as opposed to buying for thousands) then work you way out and come back at the area with a small umbrella type tree with sitting area under. We'll whip that area into shape. LOL>

Ok! I looked at everything, Thank you all so much, great ideas!

I really like the Cupressaseae, but at this point think the less root sysptems in that area the better. I like the idea of vines a lot, most that I looked at wouldn't be a root problem.
LOL CoreHHI, come on down, or up! Bring your snow boots, I'll throw you a steak on the grill while you whip in a water feature! Actually a water feature there would be great and I could still use something vining behind it for heigth. There is no outside electrical outlet in that corner so I would have to have the electrician come out and do that. Really great ideas, I hope to have solid plans before spring. As much as I want spring to hurry and get here I need the time to plan what to do.

Annie

If you want a graceful conifer, check out weeping hemlock. They take forever to get to any size, so you would want to get one that is about 4' tall. They are very, very elegant. They can be pricey, but worth every penny (or dollar) and will be a focal point plant. Your location is perfect for a hemlock. Also, the root system is very fibrous so shouldn't ever be a problem. (I also love the false cypresses, but there aren't many that do well in the Midwest, the Hinoki being an exception, but it gets large.)

P.S. I'm pretty sure your weeping cherry is actually a weeping crabapple, most likely 'Red Jade'. Does it have pink buds opening white?

Here's a photo or a young weeping hemlock.

Oh, I like the idea of the weeping Hemlock. I believe HoosierGreen is right about the roots being less aggressive. What I meant by the Hinoki were the dwarf forms. One of my favourite vines is the Arctic Kiwi http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/796/ which starts with green leaves that turn a white and then a pink overlay colour. Mix it with a clematis and you've got foliage & flower colour.

HoosierGreen, I LOVE the weeping hemlock! It would be perfect for that area, evergreen, and the root system is suitable too. Luckily there's a great local nursery that will order do special orders. I will give them a call today to make sure they have a source and see if they know what sizes they can order it in. It's just perfect, thank you so much!!

Oh, and you're correct, the buds open as you described so it's a weeping crab. I hope it will be ok to dig it out in early spring. I'd like to give it away to someone who has a more suitable place for it to grow. The trunk is now twice as thick as shown in the above picture. Know of anyone looking for one?

Growin - The Arctic Kiwi is also beautiful and, ta-da! I also have a place for that one in another part of my yard! Love the colors!

Until I found this forum I had no idea how many beautiful plants, shrubs & trees & others were available!

Thank you all so much!

Annie

I'm glad to be of help. You should be able to find a nice 3'-4' weeping hemlock for under $200. Pricey, but remember that it will be the centerpiece of the planting. They actually grow fairly quickly when young, but slow down after a few years, and it will be a long time before you begin to need to even think of trimming it, if ever. I'll try to find a photo of a more mature specimen, or you can Google Images for one.

The weeping crab can be easily transplanted in the early spring. Get as many of the roots as you can, and prune back the top growth, more thinning it than cutting the whole top back, which will ruin the natural grace of the tree. Take out up to a half of the branches (all the way back to the trunk), leaving a few well-spaced main ones to give it "good bones". They can have very striking forms for winter interest if not allowed to become "umbrellas".

Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, the router modem for the Internet broke and they had to mail another one, then I had to install it, nothing was harmed during that frustrating process LOL

I'm so excited, it's going to be perfect for the area! After Christams I'll call the local garden center and ask them to order one for me for spring. I have a new home picked out for the weeping crab, will transplant and prune as you suggested.

Yesterday I saw a shrub in a huge container in front of a store, it has corkscrew branches, was really neat looking. Any idea what it might be? I did a google search and all I can find is that it might be a Hazel, or walking stick, but think the ws is much bigger. If it is a Hazel it doesn't sound like it would be sturdy enough for the windy sunny location I live in.

If it's shrubby, it was probably Harry Lauder's Walking Stick, or contorted filbert. If it was larger than 6', it was probably a twisted willow or a corkscrew willow. The former is a Japanese beetle magnet, and IMHO attractive only in the winter, even though the leaves can be contorted also. There is a nice cultivar that has red-purple leaves, giving it a better summer show.

If you can't find a weeping hemlock, there are other weeping evergreens. Norway spruce, white pine, and Japanese red pine are just a few. My personal favorite is the weeping hemlock though. More graceful and delicate in appearance.

I'm a little worried that your spot is too sunny for the weeping hemlock. They like a little shade, and with your spot being in the sun until late afternoon, plus being an inside corner, it may have a micro climate that would toast the hemlock? If I lived in your zone, I'd go for weeping blue atlas cedar. I love this tree, but my climate can't grow it. It would make a great focus for your spot, plus you can train it to grow the way you want.

The Iselii website is a great place to look at conifers. They are wholesalers, so this is just where you drool over what is out there. The picture on their home page is so inspiring! This quote is from their site: http://www.iselinursery.com

"Cedrus atlantica ‘Glauca Pendula’,the Weeping Blue Atlas Cedar, is a true cedar which initially needs help to get to its desired height. Its branches seem to want to arch away from the trunk in its journey to the garden floor, while its branchlets with powder blue needles laying flat on the stem fall like rain toward the earth. This cedar is often used as a living fence that is trained to a trellis to border a special garden spot or arch over an alley entrance."

The Dave's garden link to this plant is here: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/67870/

Granitegneiss makes a good point, Although in my experience, if the soil is excellent and the plant well-mulched, hemlocks can take full sun. But, that brick wall might create a microclimate that is too warm in the summer. Reflected heat can be a problem, although it makes for nice winter warmth. I guess it depends on how "late" in the afternoon the sunlight reaches this wall. If it is shaded by 3:00 I would think it would be fine.

I absolutely LOVE the Weeping Blue Atlas Cedar though. It is supposed to be marginal in the upper Midwest, but I've seen them making it through the winters just fine for the past ten years or so. There are regular Blue Atlas Cedars that are over 15' tall in the Indianapolis area, and doing just fine. I don't know if the winters have been more mild (although we've had some below zero temps and late freezes) or the Blue Atlas Cedars are more tough than expected, but they look just great. The weeping ones are rarer, but with Lowe's and other big box stores selling them, they are more common now. I bought a small two-footer late in the summer (on sale) and have it potted on the deck. (Potted might be worse for its survival, but I plan to bring it in the garage if it gets unusually cold this winter.) They do have character and would work well in Annie's situation since it would remain low, and within bounds for years and years.

For a steel blue cedar consider a Cedrus deodara 'Eisregen'. While too large for AnnieBBB's corner it has withstood 4 zone 5 winters here with no dieback or even windburn. It's gorgeous and amazing. Umm, about a weeping hemlock for that site - here's a shot of a Tsuga canadensis 'Pendula' planted in the early 80's taken last winter in my back yard. For reference, the granite pagoda is 8'. It has obviously found the acid sandy soil to its liking as well as initially being sited in full sun. A pair of Red Oaks ( not shown) have since grown to shade the north side, but the south side gets the blistering sun all day.

Snapple45: Do you have a source for 'Eisregen'? Sounds wonderful. Also, do you have a photo to share?

This Eisregen was purchased at a local high end nursery. They warned me that the hardiness of this particular cultivar was much in question in zone 5a. I did some research and found a few references to it's origin (seed collected from the arid cold mountains of Pakistan) but little to it's use in the landscape in the US. It is widely planted in Tennessee and North Carolina, which is where I first saw it. Down there they are planted by commercial landscapers in shopping centers, usually up against the side of a building, or in groupings of three or four in front of office buildings. The group plantings are quite striking. All the plantings I saw were fairly recent ones. The needles bunch tightly together when it rains or if you spray the tree with water from a hose, probably owning to its native arid habitat. A soon as they dry out the clumped needles expand. From what I can gather they top out at 16' to 20'. Mine is about 16' and was 10' when planted four years ago. This year I noticed a double leader forming. Maybe its a signal that the tree will slow it's upward growth and produce more laterals. I have no idea. The photos do not really do this conifer justice. They don't capture the steely blue color of the needles. They are never green. This is a shot last from last summer.

This shot I just took. It doesn't get sweeping winds but as you can see it's not in a particularly protected position either. I would guess that very well drained soil would be important. I just wish you could see the beautiful steel blue color. It's quickly become one of my very favorite conifers.

Thanks for the photos. It is a really interesting conifer. I'll have to keep my eye open for one in this area to add to my landscaping!

Off on a tangent: Is that Irish or Scotch Moss between your flagstones? From the exposure, I didn't think it would be any regular native moss.

(P.S Love your weeping white pine.)

Nice landscape snapple. I was also going to comment on the pine - that's a weeping White Pine? Nice. Could that be a suitable plant for AnnieBBB's location? Cedrus deodara 'Eisregen' looks to be a good cultivar to work with. It's needle clusters do look much tighter than most of the Cedrus deodara around here. I thought C. deodara wasn't as hardy to cold as C. atlantica?

Good catch HG. That is Sagina subulata 'Aurea'. It took about 4 years to get it filled in along about 65' of flagstone paths. Once established ( regular watering and keeping the weeds out) it's tough as nails. Warning - it moves itself about the garden. It popped up 40' away on a flagstone patio. I've decided to let it go there.

Yes - It's Pinus strobus 'Pendula'. They are easy to grow, relatively maintenance free. Once in a while I pinch a candle or two to redirect growth, but pretty much leave it to its own devices. They can get very large. I wouldn't put it in AnnieBBB's corner.

You're correct growin. Generally C. deodara is not supposed to be as cold hardy as C. atlantica. There is another C. deodara that is also gaining a reputation for cold hardiness and that's 'Karl Fuchs'. 'Eisregen' and Karl Fuchs' look quite a bit alike. Karl Fuchs ( deceased) is said to have collected the seed for the cold hardy C. deodaras.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/153678/

A local physician/conifer collecter of some reknown gifted the Toledo Botanical Garden with an 'Eisregan" (6') from his garden last spring. To everyone's shock it promptly died. I volunteer there. The only thing I can say about that paticular tree was it had a lousy root system when it came into the Botanical Garden and it was planted in wet, heavy clay soil. They did replace it with a 'Karl Fuch's' in another location and it's doing fine. My 'Eisregen' was a B&B, planted the usual way into very well drained soil. It took right off. I did some corrective pruning early on (small side branch removed that was trying to be codominant) and the tree was not at all bothered by that. The pruning cut healed over in one growing season. This is a nice specimen tree. I wish I could guarantee it's hardiness but I can only say what works here: well drained soil and not subject to sweeping winds.

Has anyone considered a rhododendron? Or perhaps Picea orientalis 'Skylands'? The latter is very slow growing.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/2610/

My personal pick would be a Japanese Umbrella Pine - Sciadopitys verticillata
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/60887/
Beautiful and very, very slow growing. It's said it takes 100 yrs to get to 25'-40'.

Wow has this been educational and interesting, thank you so much! I still have Christmas company so haven't had time to be on line until late at night, very sorry for the delay in responding.

The iselin nursery website, you're right, I actually drooled. So much information to peruse!

Thanks for jogging my memory, the corner does have it's own little micro climate, it gets hot from the brick and plants tend to occasionally look a bit wilted even when the soil is moist. We live on a windy hilltop so that area is sheltered from some of it, but not all.

I'm very concerned about the root system of what will be planted so close to the house.

Thank you all so much! As soon as company is gone, tomorrow, I will have more time to read and reread this thread. I really appreciate your time and suggtestions!

Annie

http://pendulousplants.com/

Take a look through there.

CoreHHI - That's a terrific suggestion.

Snapple, 'Skylands' is only slow growing as a youngster, once it hits about 10 years old it can put on a foot or more a year. Mine is only about 4 years old; it put on 8" last year and it is planted in mostly shade. It seems to love the spot. It is a narrower conifer but I think it would quickly get too wide for Annie's location.

Picea omorika 'Bruns Pendula' would be my absolute best conifer choice for that spot. It will stay very narrow and very upright as long as it is staked as a youngster.

Elizabeth

Oh my. So far Skylands has stayed small for me. Its in partial shade. It's also only 6 yrs old. This ought to be interesting. I like your choice of the Picea omorika. I killed mine. :(

I truly appreciate and am grateful for everyone's suggestions!

This isn't nearly as easy as I thought it would be!! There are so many beautiful trees/shrubs and I'm still drooling over all the suggestions, pictures and websites.

The area is small, root system is a very big concern, it has a micro climate because it's next to the house (hot brick). The micro climate is not something I would have even considered without all of you. That suggestion alone probably saved more than one trees life!

I really want to plant something, not only there but every where on my property, that will be there for years and years even after I'm gone for others to enjoy too.

Pendulousplants is a great site! I think I want 3 of everything they have! Decisions, decisions!