Persimmons

There are three large persimmon trees on the golf course near my house and they are loaded with fruit. They are about the size of a small apple and are turning from yellow to orange. How do I tell when they are ripe and if they are edible? What can I do with them when they are ripe? I know nothing about persimmons but I don't want to see the fruit go to waste.

If they are large trees, they are probably the native American persimmons which need to be completely ripe and soft before they are edible. Unripe American persimmons are very astringent. They will make you mouth pucker.

Ripe persimmons are fantastic. The pulp can be eaten as is or used in baking. Persimmon cookies are wonderful. You can also freeze the pulp to use later.

Thank you these aren't real soft. I am afraid to tast them! :0)

They are not poisonous, just astringent. A little lick is enough to tell you if it is still astringent.

Well I took a little bite and it made me "pucker" so I guess they aren't quite there. I was looking at kinds of persimmons and I think they are one of the Asian types and it says they ripen in November so I guess I'll give them a couple more weeks!

I picked these at our lakehouse yesterday. I believe they're Fuyu, but tree was already there when we bought the place. They are bitter when hard. I usually wrap them individually in newspaper and store them in the garage. They have small spiders on them sometimes, so I don't want them in the house. As soon as they get soft, I take them in and eat them. No one else in my family will touch 'em! If too many ripen at the same time, I freeze the pulp.

bigbubbles, (I love that name by the way and darst I ask where it came from? :o0)
the persimmons I have are a not so round and more pointy on the bottom. After reading about the different kinds I am really confused. I think these are the kind that have to ripen to the point of being mushy inside before they are edible. I would like to try drying them but don't have a dehydrator. I am wondering if I should pick some and let them ripen at room temperature. I am afraid if I wait and leave them on the tree they will all be gone. Do you think that would work?

Yours are possibly American (pointy).... You could pick a few and put them in a paper bag for a few days...or in the freezer. You just may come up with a better way to ripen them! I've never wanted to eat one that wasn't soft and ripe, no matter the type. I found any that were hard would make my mouth pucker! The squirrels won't even eat them when they're hard. The best time to pick them is right after the first freeze. The freeze knocks all the leaves off and with the low temps the fruit ripens quite rapidly. If you can keep an eye on them, you might wait till it freezes to get the bulk of them... I just picked mine before the squirrels, deer, and neighbors got their shares!

'As for the name 'bigbubbles..." When I first joined, I tried maybe 5 names, each already owned by someone else. My grandson calls me Bubbles, so I finally tried that. Nope, wouldn't take it. So in frustration, I typed "bigbubbles," just to see if it was denying anything I tried. And it took that one....of course... !

My folks had a great persimmon. They were astringent and were elongated with a point on the end. I've been wondering for years which variety they were but I'm sure they were one of the older Japanese ones. I"m hoping to find a local source but even if I have to order it, I will plant a persimmon this season. They will ripen at room temps and will also hang on the tree well if some scavenger doesn't get them. I don't remember any bees or other bugs being a problem so I think that means they ripen real late after the chill has shut them down.

The American persimmon, Diospyros virginiana, is a very tall tree, has sexes on separate trees and astringent fruit less than 2" in diameter. Diospyros kaki trees, Japanese or Asian persimmons, are usually smaller in size making them easier to harvest. There are two types of Japanese persimmons, astringent and non-astringent. The astringent varieties need to get get to the hard ripe stage before you harvest them. Then you'll need to place them somewhere to soften to the consistency of jelly before the "pucker" disappears. One layer only or the moisture will cause them to rot. Exposure to frost will help get rid of the astringency, but I find than by then the birds and wasps have damaged the fruit or the frost is too hard and it itself damages the fruit.It is safer to pick the fruit at the hard ripe stage. It takes a little practice because the fruit turn orange well before it's ripe. Most of the astringent persimmon varieties will need a pollinator. In general, the astringent varieties have a more intense flavor. Once soft, slice the fruit in half and use a spoon to scoop the pulp out. Ummm, soooo tasty.

The non-astringent ones sacrifice a bit of flavor, but they can be eaten at the hard ripe stage just like an apple. They are juice and crunchy. They are great dehydrated, which intensifies the flavor. Many varieties are self-fruitful so you can plant just one. I prefer the non-astringent persimmons. Because persimmons bloom well after all frost is over, they are a very reliable producer. Persimmons are fairly easy to care for and relatively pest free. This year our cattle broke through the electric fence and ate all the fruit off my tree so I won't get fruit this year, but I have had a good crop every year since it started producing fruit, something other fruit trees haven't done.

Sandi, if your persimmons are still astringent at this stage, then they are not Fuyu. They could be Eureka, a popular persimmon here in Texas. Eureka is self-fruitful, but astringent and looks very much like a Fuyu.

I'll have to look them up one cold dreary afternoon and compare.

Thanks all, good information.

Twiggybuds
I think that you are describing a Saijo persimmon. They are in my opinion the best tasting astringent persimmon. The Hachiya and Tanenashi have slightly larger and conical fruit but the smaller Saijo is very sweet and better tasting.
Oldude

Thanks Oldude. I had narrowed it to Hachiya or Tanenashi and then read that the Saijo is considered the best tasting by persimmon specialists. I think my folks had the Tanenashi because they were the dark orange as opposed to the lighter color of the Hachiya and were very large. But I'll go with the Saijo because I only have room for one and simply must get it right the first time.

twiggy from what I am reading you have to have 2 trees is this right?

Most Asian varieties are self-pollinating. Just Fruits and Exotics sells self-pollinating varieties. Saijo is among the list.
http://www.justfruitsandexotics.com/Persimmons.htm

betty thanks oh what a candy store wish it wasn't so far away I'd like to go there

I planted two persimmon trees in October of 2007, a Jiro and a Saijo. Funny thing is that the Saijo is supposed to be astringent, but I have been eating them off the tree for the past several weeks, as they ripen, i.e. they become a little darker and translucent looking and very soft. They are not astringent.

Look at the picture, I picked 15 today and there are still maybe 6 or seven on the tree that are not soft yet. I thought the astringent ones needed to be "frosted", like the D. virginiana, but that does not seem to be the case.

I have a question which I am posting separately.

C.

Here is my question about the Jiro persimmon, see picture below (with my Saijos). they are hard as rocks, but acc. to the "Fruits and Exotics" website posted earlier, they should be ripe in October. When I try to pinch them, they don't give AT ALL.

We are supposedly getting a frost tonight and a freeze tomorrow. Should I pick them? And if so, how should I store them until they are ripe? I had only one or two fruits last year and don't remember how they behaved.

Thanks for your advice,
C.

I am no expert here especially on these but I have read that people pick and bring in the house so the ripen and don't lose them takes too long to get them :)

Jiro, sometimes sold as Fuyu, is ripe when the orange color deepens and can be eaten at that stage. They will be crisp and crunchy. Just be sure to peel them. They are usually eaten like an apple. You can also allow them to get soft and translucent, but it is not necessary.

On the Saijo, the astringency disappears when they get soft and transluscent, which apparently yours are. I suppose in some areas which get frost sooner, frost would have the same effect. Actually, so does dehydrating them.

Clementine thank you for posting those photos since that's the first time I've seen the Saijos. They look the size and shape of large eggs. It sure is encouraging that you've got such a nice crop off trees you planted only two years ago.

Well, I decided to give it a try and I picked on of the Jiros. I think it is not ripe yet, it is not as sweet as I would expect. Maybe what I should do is buy one in the store to compare.

Twiggy, that's exactly how I described the Saijos - egg-shaped, and are they ever good!!!!!

Thank you all for your ideas.

Clementine,
I found it takes a few years to visually tell when the Jiro (Fuyu type) persimmons are ready, usually a deep orange color. While they can be allow to soften just like the Saijo, usually they are eaten when the texture is more like that of an apple and have to be appreciated for that. If you compare astringent varieties with non astringent varieties and go simply by how sweet and intense the flavor is, then generally, astringent varieties win hands down. The softened pulp of the astringent varieties are also favored when used in baking. BUT have you ever tried putting one in your pocket to enjoy later? I gues what I'm trying to say is you need to give Jiro a chance to mature fully and then evaluate it according to its own strengths. Can you tell I'm partial to the Jiro type persimmons? LOL. I love them both.

The Garden Club of Austin had a flower show today at the botanical garden. As a lark...I entered 3 of my persimmons from the lake......and they won a 1st prize ribbon..... too funny.....

Wow, congratulations, bubbles, that is really great, what were they?

Betty, I guess you are right about "learning" how to tell when Fuyus are ripe. Anyway, now we are not going to get frost again for quite a while, that will give them a chance to ripen some more. I have eaten Sharons, which are also Fuyus, bought at the grocery store, and they were quite good, that's why I got my tree. I grew up with the astringent type and really, really love them. To me, they are almost like two separate types of fruit.

Congratulations, Sandi!

Clementine, Persimmons are my favorite fruit and you are right, they are almost like two separate types of fruit. In California, Fuyus and Hachiya persimmons are the most common varieties. I guess I gravitated toward the Fuyus because you never had a bad one. I could never wait until the fruit was completely soft and it seemed like I always hit an astringent patch. The sweet crunchiness of the Fuyu really appeals to me. When my DH and I lived in California I had two Fuyu persimmons. Since the four of us couldn't eat them all even after giving loads away, I started dehydrating them. I had to watch our boys otherwise they would eat the lot then get sick. Dehydration intensifies the flavor and sweetness.

Thanks guys...I've been at neighborhood chili cook-off tonight.
I just entered persimmons as Diosypros sp. for genus. Still not sure of variety.

Americans tend to lean towards Jiro/Fuyu because they are crunchy like an apple. However, you lose some of that deep rich sweetness that you get from the astringent varieties that need to soften before eating. My wife doesnt like the consistancy so she wont eat the astringent soft ones. They are excellent for bread so it isnt a bad idea to have one astringent (soft when ripe) and one non-astringent (still hard when ripe). Either way, bite into a unripe persimmon and you are hating life.

I just planted a Fuyu last November. Can anyone give me an idea when I might expect it to start fruiting? Thanks

It all depends on the caliper of the trunk and whether you plant it in the fall or spring. I bought a persimmon tree from RainTree Nursery. It arrived in March. So I got my first flowers and fruit starting on the third spring. The trunk was about 3/4" in diameter. I planted another in the fall. Since it had all winter to get established and develop a good root system before it put out new growth, I had fruit starting the second spring. This is assuming that the soil is warm enough for the roots to grow. If the soil freezes, you won't see any advantage by planting in the fall.

I always expect fruit drop the first year or two after planting. Dont be upset when it happens.

Here in San Marcos the local Catholic Church has two 30 foot persimmon trees. They are Tamopan persimmons and they are flat instead of round. They produced lots of fruit this summer in the drought without any watering. They also have flooded at least 5 years that I know of since 1998. Pretty impressive.