Growing Garlic

Some zucchini would be really nice... I love it sauteéd with garlic and sprinkled with parmesan... yum. I already have a few seeds, too.

Zucchini is a great idea, very prolific.

You can still seed Fall broccoli and many other crops that will mature in the cooler weather if you persevere in keeping your seedbeds watered well enough until the plants sprout and grow long enough roots to make it through the Summer.

Gwen, I would stop watering the garlic because it is probably getting close to harvest time even if you have some later maturing varieties.

It is a little hard for me to answer the 'How much is enough?" question, since I always plant way more than I need myself in order to have plenty to give to family and friends as well as saving seed for the following year. Last Fall, I planted 250, which filled up a 4 foot by 30 foot bed. In past years, I have grown close to 800 plants because I was also selling some at the Farmer's Market. That took over my whole year, became a burden, and I pulled back after 4 years of it. To try to estimate, I would think about how many garlic bulbs do you use in a week. Multiply that by 4 to get a month supply, and multiply that by 12. Then add in some more for special occasions and/or projects (like pesto). Now you have your usage total. You also need to save some for planting stock. I divide my usage total by 7, which is an average of plantable (nice ,BIG) cloves available in one bulb. Add that to the usage total and you have about how many you will want to plan for planting in October. At least that will give you a ballpark number.

Nicely done, Holly . . .

This is a great zucchini recipe, easy to tweek with different herbs and spices too. From epicurious.com
Zucchini with Feta
2 1/2 cups coarsely grated zucchini (about 3 medium)
1 tsp salt divided
1 large egg
1 large egg yolk
1/2 cup or more of all purpose flour
1/2 cup crumbled feta cheese
1 cup chopped fresh Italian parsley
1/2 cup chopped green onions
1 1/2 T of chopped fresh dill

1/2 cup (about) olive oil
1/2 cup (about) corn oil

Plain Greek Yogart
Toss zucchini and 1/2 tsp salt in large bowl. Let stand 5 minutes. Transfer to sieve. Press out excess liquid; place zucchini in dry bowl. Mix in egg, yolk, 1/2 cup flour, feta and 1/2 tsp salt. Mix in parsley, onions, and dill. If batter is still too wet, add more flour by spoonfuls.
Heat 2 T olive oil and 2 T corn oil in a large skillet over medium heat. Working in batches, drop batter by rounded tablespoonfuls into skillet. Fry patties until golden, about 5 minutes per side, add more olive and corn oil as needed. Transfer to paper towels.
Can be made 1 day ahead. Place on baking sheet, cover and chill. Rewarm in 350 oven for 12 minutes. Serve with yogurt.

Hmm- that sounds interesting. Too much work for me, though. Since I'm the only one in the house that will eat zucchini, I like to just do a quick sauteé and nom nom nom... hehehe.

Our favorite zucchini recipe, when we have had it sautéed with garlic and EVOO several times already, is to sautée a bunch of it with onions in olive oil and then place in a casserole dish, add milk and beaten eggs (one egg to each cup of milk), pour over zucchini and onions just to cover, and sprinkle liberally with grated cheese. It's a nice side dish for something light like clams. You could also throw some cooked potato chunks in there, but we usually don't. We also like to stuff the big ones with either a vegetarian mixture or something that includes ground lamb and pine nuts.

I've made plain zucchini pancakes. Adding feta sounds like a delicious idea to turn them into gourmet zucchini cakes.

Always need more ideas for what to do with the big zukes that grow into monsters while hiding under a leaf.

My cukes do that too sometimes! I've been looking, but the leaves are so luxuriant that it's hard to keep track!

Gary will eat sauteed zukes if I add tomotoes and melt some cheese over, add whatever herbs are in season (basil comes to mind).

Some ideas for things we can start now: Beets, Broccoli, Cabbage, Brussels Sprouts, Carrots, Collard Greens (always a fave of mine), Kohlrabi, Lettuce of course, Mustard Greens (also a favorite of mine, I LOVE mustard greens!!!), Kale and Spinach and Swiss Chard. Oh, and Parsnips for spring harvesting.

A little later, it will be time to start onion seeds if you like to overwinter onions. (time to start, around Aug 1)

I like the thought that we will have a long fall - I'll hold on to that hope!

As for how much garlic to plant... I guess it depends on how much of a garlic consumer you are!

I have not really kept count... but I am guessing I planted around 200.

Tell me how to overwinter onions. I would like to learn more about that and try it. I didn't realize we could still do carrots. From seed?

Yes, you can sow carrots now for winter and spring harvest. From seed.

Onions: Either start from seed around August 1 and plant out in October or buy starts and plant out in October. You will have fantastic early onions next year. I am so bummed that I did not get onions fall planted last year, because I REALLY missed having the constant supply of onions.

And then you just leave them all alone? Water and keep weeded until the rains start?

Yes, that's it!

Do you have any varieties for our area to recommend that are good keepers (storage)? Do red onions keep as well as yellow? Also, can you overwinter any onions or just certain varieties? Can you overwinter the sweet ones (walla walla?)

Ooh. Walla Walla sweets are soooo good.

Yes, Walla Walla overwinters wonderfully!

I am not sure if some onions overwinter better than others... I have been getting my overwintering onion seeds from Territorial Seed and one year I bought starts, from Peaceful Valley... I have to say, the starts did THE best for me ever - and I got them because my own seed starting had failed.

Good keepers are: Yellow of Parma, Copra for yellow and for red, Redwing kept very well for me last year.

I buy Walla Walla sweets about the first of August and put them in the veggie crisper in a spare refrigerator. They will then keep, fairly well, until I use them in the Thanksgiving dressing. I think the two secrets here are to get them when they are fairly mature and to keep them nice and cool. I have never had them last all winter, however.

Garlic looks good! Sorry I've not been on line to answer your question Gwen. We've had family for 2 weeks... glad to be back. I will let you know what we planted this year and try to remember what I sent out. Alex will harvest this week and I'll see if I can post a picture of how he did. We planted 200 cloves in October, I've been picking off the Chinese Pink for a while since he pulled them 3 weeks ago - needed the bed for Tomatoes.

OK, where do you go for your seed Garlic? I am in Texas and even though we are in the same hardy zone the growing conditions are much different. I would like to order while they still have a good selection. I may have to try and fail several times before I find the varieties that do well for us but I would like to know who consistently has good stock, thanks.

Kenboy, I like to buy from places in my area. I feel that if it is started in my climate, it will grow better here. So I think you should try and find a good source in Texas. There may be some local growers who sell garlic in the fall. Go your local farmer's market and talk to people who are selling garlic there.

I have gotten garlic stock to plant from both Filaree Farm and Territorial seed, both based here in the Northwest. I felt that Filaree sent me a higher quality product, and I know they grow their own plants.

I left some scapes on a few plants to show what they do after the spiral twist stage. In this picture, they have uncurled somewhat and are beginning to straighten out. If the plant is left unharvested, the stalk would straighten out entirely and then bloom, with the spherical flower cluster of ornamental alliums. They are white flowers.

I just got this reply back from Filaree. I had contacted after the recommendation above. I thought some of you might be interested in this.

1. Garlic to harvest in July (or when it's ready) and to use soon when I make my tomato sauce for the year. The garlic gets roasted along with the tomatoes, onions, peppers, and basil. Then strained and frozen to use throughout the year. I use quite a bit of garlic at this time.

I would recommend a Turban strain. They are earliest to mature and quite flavorful. Uzbek Turban, Thai Purple or Tzan.

2. Garlic to keep and use in general cooking throughout the year, esp in soups, stews, and roasts.

The Rocambole - Killarney Red or Marbled Purple Stripes - Siberian or Khabar

3. Garlic to keep and use throughout the year for roasted garlic. I like to roast the head of garlic in foil with a little oil, then serve each person their own head of garlic to spread on bread. So a garlic that's a good flavor for that.

Porcelain are the best roasting garlics having robust flavor and only 4 to 6 cloves per bulb. Romanian Red, Music Pink, Armenian or Polish Hardneck.

4. Garlic to keep and use throughout the year raw, mostly in guacamole and salsa. So a good garlic for using raw. I don't think we like anything to hot or spicy.

Softneck Artichoke variety garlic a generally milder flavored and better keepers than hardnecks


I would really like to have garlic that goes the distance so I can use it to plant the following season as well.

Any garlic will last long enough to replant since you harvest by mid July and plant a few months later. The softneck Silverskin variety is the longest storing, lasting 10 to 12 months which is why it is the type most commonly found in supermarkets.

I also had asked them how far apart to space them when planting. They replied they recommend planting on a 6 x 8" grid or a 9 x 5" grid.

I'm not sure I know what this means. This year I planted 12" apart, but from photos I've seen here, that seems maybe farther than necessary. It doesn't seem to have made my cloves particularly large!

Yesterday I dug my first one up and it was pretty tasty. I used it to make some bbq'd shrimp. It had what looked like it would have been the 'skins' - maybe 2 layers deep. It dries out after you harvest and cure it, right? If it's supposed to be drying in the ground right now, it isn't!

I'm ordering my garlic now and am wondering if I should ask for an early Oct or mid Oct date to receive them. What do you think?

Is there any advantage to getting them in the ground early?

So based on Filaree's responses, this is what I decided to go with:

1/4# each of
uzbek turban
thai purple turban
siberian rocambole
khabar rocambole
romanian red porcelain
music pink porcelain
armenian porcelain
polish hardneck porcelain
island star artichoke
madrid artichoke

This gives me about 155 cloves.

Then I added 2 more based on Holly's descriptions earlier on in this thread about what she grows and has grown:
inchelium red artihocke
asian tempest korean

I hope that will be enough! Actually, what I really hope is that it lasts and does start rotting on me, since this is expensive to purchase. But I'm really hoping I can have enough left over after the 2011 harvest that I don't have to order again in the future. Unless I want to try new varieties.

Let me know if any of you think I have ordered a variety that won't do well. I have my shopping cart ready to go but haven't placed the order yet.

Wow, Gwen, that's an impressive list. It is a lot of different kinds to keep track of, so be sure to make a good map of what you plant. That way you will be able to tell which is which and be able to determine which are your favorites. When harvesting, you need to keep the varieties identified if you care about saving some of each to plant again. I write an abbreviation of the variety name on the stem using a black marking pen. That way, even if they get a bit mixed up I know what's what.

I am going to have to purchase entirely new stock because of the fungus infestation. I am going to simplify and only plant a few kinds that I know I like (plus one more I just have to check out!). I think it is good for you to try many kinds so you can discover what you most prefer. I'll be getting Asian Tempest, Inchelium Red, Armenian, and Khabar. At least that is the plan.

So sorry, Holly, about the fungus infestation. That must be frustrating.

Gwen, you are really ambitious, in the Garlic Arena, anyway! Where will you find room for all that garlic, and are you planning on growing anything else???

Holly, will the new bulbs be able to resist the fungus infestation? Do you plant them in a different area, or does the fungus just live on the older bulbs?

I tried braiding my garlic yesterday. I have to say that apparently it's not one of my talents; they look ridiculous. It's harder than I thought to braid the later ones into the plait. However, I have them braided and hung on a hook in my pantry, and to the undiscerning visitor they don't look bad, as long as you don't inspect carefully. They are very small bulbs, and I don't know if that's the variety (Early Italian) or my cultural efforts. I'm going to see if I can find something larger for this fall.

They will still be wonderful to have this winter, greenhouse-gal, no matter how the braids look.
Regarding the fungus, my harvest was much better this year. Instead of losing 1/2 my crop I would say it was less than a quarter. I dug them early, so they are smaller, but worth doing it that way because I would get so upset in years past.
We added Lots of composted sheep poop and hay to the raised bed early last fall. I purchased just Oregon Blue from Territorial. And they were happy, but then garlic always is until towards the end of the growing season when you begin to see the tell tale signs of the fungus. I pulled the ones under suspect and sure enough. No roots or shortening roots. But most made it without damage. I will not replant any of this years garlic, but purchase it perhaps from Filigree. I will also find a new bed in which to grow them. It's all worth it, though, to have your own crop.

The fungus is in my soil, possibly throughout my entire vegetable garden (seven 4' by 30' raised beds) because I've transplanted lettuces and broccoli around from where they were seeded before realizing I had this problem. Also, it can be tracked around, and I have had dogs running playfully around, sometimes right through the beds. And I used my digging fork all over the place before knowing I had an infiltrator of this magnitude. It may also be carried in the seed stock. I used bulbs that looked completely unaffected last Fall, planted in a different bed, cleaned my tools carefully, but still got hit. As Bee says, the garlic looks totally fine until close to harvest time. It is triggered by an aroma the garlic exudes when it begins to bulb.

My solution is to plant on the opposite side of the house, create a bed there with imported soil, and have a set of tools only for that location. I won't be able to plant so many, probably much less. I am going through a bit of an identity crisis over this, but really there are much worse tragedies in life.

When I have enough garlic ready to braid, I plan to post step by step pictures and instructions for my braiding method.

My potager is 40 x 60. I have about 16 or 17 different beds in there. I have 9 beds that are 6 x 8' each. Then I have 6 beds that are 7 x 9 but they are each divided into rows and the rows alternate direction, so 3 beds have 4 rows and 3 beds have 3 rows. By my calculations I did yesterday, the garlic will use up 2 of the 6x8 beds and 1 of the 7x9/4-row beds. I also have strips that run around the perimeter of the potager. So I have quite a bit of room to wander.

I do grow other stuff and it all depends on what I have time to get in there. This year I have only tomatoes, onions, garlic, basil, other herbs, and a very small amount of lettuce. Most of the beds are empty and full of weeds. I'm still repairing the damage from installing the drip irrigation and still putting the drip lines above ground, filling in the ditches, weeding, etc. My goal is to have the entire potager looking fabulous by next year. I'm of course very bummed I didn't get more planted this year. But we also are finishing up the chicken run in there. We move the chickens back and forth and it got to be such a drag so I'm making it all more permanent and we'll only have to move the chickens, not the coop and the fencing. It involves buying another coop for their 'winter' digs, but in the end will be very worth it.

Holly, great idea about writing on the stems the name of the variety!

I've never tried braiding. But it sounds like you started at the top and worked your way down toward the bulb. What about if you reversed it, starting as close to the bulb as you can and going back up towards the end of the leaves?

Boy, really hoping I don't get that fungus! Is it obvious by looking at the plant?

I'm going to dig up all my current garlic today. Not that there is that much of it.

Gwen, I started braiding the garlic as close to the bulb as I could, following a couple of diagrams on some webpages I found. But it gets a mite confusing as you add bulbs, is all.

Lots of luck with your chickens and your potager. How many hens do you have? We shut the chickens out of the garden after I set it up à la Eliot Coleman because they would have wreaked havoc on my nice neat rows and paths. But we do use the chicken manure to dress the rows when we can.

My strawberry beds are empty and full of weeds. I hate looking at them so I feel your pain!

We have 7 hens. They are sequestered to one side of the garden and are behind a tall fence so they can't get over. They're only out there for a few months in the summer. They spend the rest of the year up closer to our house so it's easier for us to care for them.

There are videos on YouTube that show how to do bread braids using all different numbers of strands. Maybe there is something similar for garlic braiding!

There were videos available. I didn't watch them because the diagrams were very clear, but it's one thing to see someone else doing something deftly and easily, and another thing to try to get your own hands to cooperate!

We have about 22 chickens now, and twenty-five straight run chicks in the brooder - soon to go into the chicken tractor. We had almost forty before we got visited by a mink this winter. Ours are behind the garage, and it can be a challenge to get to them in a deep snow!

Do you sell your eggs? That's a lot of eggs! Are you raising the chicks for meat? Luckily we have not been bothered by any predators. No minks here but some people have problems with raccoons, coyotes (I don't think coyotes can climb our fence or get into our yard) and flying predators. I keep things fairly clean (but boy does it smell when it rains here...and as you know it rains a lot) so that I don't attract that walking predators. I also try to keep the areas I put the chickens in places where they have plenty of cover from overhead birds. But I have neighbors who say they'll have a bird sitting on the fence post just looking at their chickens (they keep them covered from above). So we've been really lucky and now I'm going to go knock on wood!

We sell eggs and wood products, which makes us eligible for farmland assessment for property tax purposes, and the cockerels go into the freezer, as do the spent layers. We have found that geese do a good job protecting our chickens from predators; when we don't have them in with the flock the mortality rate goes way up!

What kind of geese do you have? I am dying for a pair of sebastopol geese. I also want a pair of runner ducks. Slug control, you know!

I would love to find someone to butcher chickens for me. I just would not be able to do it. But I understand the sanitation issues involved with butchering other people's chickens. So I've been trying to find someone local who raises organic birds and sell them. So far the only place I've gone to see their operation, I was appalled at the conditions.

Harvest!