Nutrient Problem? Disease?(several species)

Calalily - I used to be addicted to growing African Violets, too. Had over 300 hundred of them and sold the "extras" on ebay so I could buy more LOL

Like, you, I would not use AVID, or any other miticide/pesticide in my garden - I just let the good bugs/birds/wasps eat the bad bugs.

Honeybee, please tell me what the cure was for your African Violet obsession. I'm in dire need of this info so I can become "normal" regarding tomatoes. There are thousands and I once thought I had to grow them all. I am making progress in that now my goals are limited to only hundreds.

Well, twiggybuds, for me it was being offered a job at the same place where my daughter works. I found I didn't have time for both. The "real job" certainly pays better than the "hobby" (giggle)

As to your tomato obesession - what is your goal? Are you trying to find that "perfect tasting" tomato, the "easiest to grow?" - enquiring minds want to know :)

What's my goal? Several things and some don't make sense even to me. Tomatoes are my single most used veg. I can add some kind of tomato product to something daily, even if it's just a condiment. I love them and they're supposed to be very healthy.

Tomatoes are high on the list of the "dirty dozen". Meaning they're literally saturated multiple times with pesticides in commercial fields and often test positive for residue. The ones in the grocery store and the products we buy are contaminated. The USDA says the contaminates are acceptable but I want to avoid them and protest at the same time by growing my own.

Until I subscribed here, I thought the only tomatoes were cherry, roma and round red. I also thought they didn't grow well here because of disease and pestilence. I found out there are different kinds for every purpose and growing them can be an interesting challenge. I enjoy growing them, sharing and I want to develop/discover some special condiment recipes. I grow onions, garlic, herbs, tomatillos and peppers too. It's just a hobby but I do get to eat. Naturally I want to discover the best tasting, earliest, most productive, meatiest, etc. The trouble is that there's no consensus on the subject and results vary.

My first plant obsession was the 500 + daylily cultivars that I'm supposed to be selling to finance my habits. Now I'm resenting them because they take space away from the tomatoes and everything else. I guess I'm just meant to obsess over something at all times.

Ah! And there's the "rub" !!

I've been gardening for over 50 years, and I've yet to find that "perfect" tomato - but every year I try different ones. I think my problem is, my taste buds no longer know what they are supposed to be looking for!

Try to limit yourself to just a few. I grow mostly the plum type of tomatoes becaue my hubby loves my chili and he doesn't mind which tomatoes go into it as long as they have been grown without pesticides.

Many years ago it was impossible to find organically grown vegetables. Back then we were considered "health nuts" - to which I would reply: I'm not nuts, just healthy!

Twiggybuds, I was a daylily nut too. They don't grow so well in south Texas though.
I understand about the tomatoes, we eat tomatoes almost every day, even for breakfast some days. I want to find a tomato that will produce in the south Texas summer. I'm trying one this year called Valley Girl. I want to find seeds for Arkansas Traveler but haven't had any luck yet.

Calalily
Growing nice veggies in our alkaline soil is an ongoing battle. So much so that I have gone to boxed raised beds with imported man-made soil (sand, composted manure, compost, and composted soil). However, there are some veggies that seem to just do better growing in raised dirt rows so there will always be some dirt rows in my garden. There is not a whole lot I can do about the alkaline water though.

I started my garden in the early 80's. Things that have worked for me in dealing with yellow plants are: chelated sulfur (slow long term effect) tilled into the soil, Epsom salts sprayed or poured on and around the plants, and foliar sprayed plant foods. Actually I mix Epsom salts with sprayed plant foods. This seems to work rather quickly. You may want to try Epsom salt and foliar spray separate and mixed together on a couple test plots.

I have read where the Epsom salts perform some magic that allows plants to take up nutrients that have been lock up by the alkaline in our soil and water. Ever notice that when we water from our wells that plants stay alive but are light green in color and when it rains the plants become dark green and grow like Jack-in-the-bean-stalk? I figure the alkaline in our water locks up nutrients that are abundant in our soils.

Your pepper looks to have a virus. Maybe tobacco mosaic virus (TMV).

I use BT dust for the loopers being sure to dust under all leaves. Having a good dusting on the underside of the leaves helps keep the dust from washing away so quickly from rain. The loopers did a number on my cauliflower, cabbage, brussel sprouts, and broccoli this year because I waited a little too long before dusting. Now that I have dusted they are coming back just fine.

Hope your garden kicks the back stuff and you are able to get a decent harvest.

Jerry

Calla I don't how helpful this is but I discovered 2 that show a lot of promise for hot weather setting. I'll sure check them out better next year.

First Pick is a medium round red good looking determinate OP that stood out as acting differently. In the spring it set nicely and was very short. It ripened them all in short time but I wouldn't call it early as the name would imply. It also keeps putting on new growth and blooms in flushes. Then came the very hot June that practically wiped out all the others and dog days started in early July and went on all summer. The plant looked pitiful but had a couple small green ones hanging on so I moved it to where it got a couple hours shade in the middle of the day. It rose from the dead and set a few all summer. I ignored it because the daily rain, endless insects and foliage disease just made an impossible situation. The important thing was that it kept trying through all that.

The other one is Principe Borghese which is a plum shaped determinate OP cherry. My Mexican neighbor loves them for her pico and I planted 5 just for her in July. They quickly grew lush and set like crazy while summer didn't end until last weekend.

They definitely are heat setters that I'll really check out next summer with succession plantings. While these were doing their thing, I had other varieties that wouldn't set at all.

Jerry, I had a potassium deficiency. The soil test should be back soon so I can determine what caused the imbalance. All of the plants have new growth that is green, the yellow will never disappear on the older leaves because that's how K deficiency acts. I sprayed them with fish emulsion and as soon as I get some good wood ashes I'll add a bit to the rows that had the most trouble.
You know the funny part, I was talking to my rancher friend's wife yesterday and she saw the plants. She said "potassium deficiency, add wood ashes." I should have asked her first! I could have saved two trips and a hundred miles of traveling.

I too thought the peppers had a virus but the plant doctor guy put them under the microscope and they have cyclamen mites (just as bad, no cure really).

Twiggybuds, thank you for the tomato names. I will hunt down seed and give them a try. I make pico almost every day, my friend told her aunt that I make the best pico she's ever had and they're all from Mexico and wonderful cooks. She's going to show me how to make her flour tortillas. They're the best I've ever had.

I used to visit my friend in Gulfport, MS. I couldn't believe how hot and humid it was there! Are you close to Gulfport?

Gulfport is about 35 miles west of me and the heat and humidity has not improved.

Tortillas de harina are a real treat. The younger women around here don't make the effort but when their mamas visit they make the real deal and share with me. I keep them bribed with flowers and vegs so I can keep those plates of good food coming.

Please do me a favor and explain how you keep cilantro going. I've planted it several times and can never get it to do well. It either bolts right away or looks anemic as compared to the nice bunches in the stores. I've got some culantro that shows promise but I'm not sure the neighbor will like it.

Hi Calla,

I've been crazy busy but, that's no excuse for not calling or emailing and saying hi! Saw this thread and had to read and jump in since, I'm only a few miles a way and pretty organic and as close as one can get to the same soil though your water source is natural and mine isn't. I'm not having those problems going on. I even have been using the orgainic place you recomended on 106 for supplies. Thought that might help you eliminate that as a thought.

I also want you to know that you can call me ANYTIME even if it's to pick catipillars off plants...lol...I don't have nearly the garden you do honey and I thought I'd go crazy with them...lol...I ended up with a cheep paint brush and brushing them off by hand...they just wouldn't go away with anything...lol...You have been so wonderful I will gladly help in anyway!

I have no starts right now but, I can start anything You need. I also am in a tomato trade and Arkansa Travelers are on my wish list. If I get some, I will hand deliver them to you so you can get them started for your summer crop.

Really honey, anything you all need...anything at all....

Hugs,

Jamie

Horseshoe, you talk about greensand possibly raising the PH too much,

"if you already have an alkaline soil, or even neutral) you may be raising the pH too much"

but in the article that HoneyBeeNC cites, they say it is used "to ammend alkaline soils." Can you explain what's going on here?

TIA
LAS

p.s. HoneyBeeNC - How do you put a quote in a box?

Howdy, LAS...

About greensand, the pH of it tends to run from slightly acidic to slightly alkaline, depending on the source (Texas greensand vs New Jersey greensand, for example). Although it usually doesn't play a big role in changing pH when used "according to recommendations" if it were to be overused it quite possibly could alter the pH level. I don't think Calalily would go to that extreme though.

As for greensand being recommended to amend alkaline soils that is usually the case when iron is needed and greensand will allow the plants to utilize the iron for a much longer period of time than other iron supplements; in other words it won't leach out as fast as some nor will it lock up and become unusable.

I'm sitting here wondering about the addition of wood ash to Cala's soil. I thought the soil was already alkaline and though wood ash may be offering potassium it tends to have a much faster/immediate effect on soil pH levels. Maybe there is a restricted amount that can be safely used, depending on the present pH level, that won't cause a drastic change.

Shoe

Too all of you. I have been reading this thread it is really informative, its like a mystery and all the clues are in just waiting for the final results. Calalily-I'm sorry you had to go through all this but I think most of us have learned alot, I know I have. I believe that wood ash would make your soil more alkaline I just read that sulfate of potash will add K and sulfate is supposed to make your soil more acidic.
Lisa

Hi Jamie, I was just thinking about you yesterday. We got a drop or two of rain and it looked like it was headed in your direction.
I finally have the caterpillars under control, I used two products "Conserve" and "Thuricide." The K deficiency is much better. Still waiting on the soil test. I don't understand why they are taking so long. I will have to give them a call if the results don't come in today.

Horseshoe, I didn't overdo the greensand. I like to err on the side of too little. It's much easier to fix too little than to remove excess.

Lisa, I will have to check into sulfate of potash.

Here is a photo of the broccoli on the mend

Twiggybuds, forgot to answer your question about cilantro. I start new cilantro every two or three weeks. It does really well here in winter, but will bolt after a few weeks no matter how cool the weather is. When I cut bunches I take scissors and whack it off about an inch above the ground, the whole clump. It grows back.
In summer, cilantro needs light shade. We plant it on the shady side of taller crops, sometimes between taller plants.

I think the cilantro in the stores must be grown in a shady greenhouse judging from the length of the stems. Most of the cilantro sold in stores here comes from Mexico. I wonder if it's grown at higher altitudes down there? There are some areas in the mountains where it's chilly even in summer.

LAS14 - Here's the link that will tell you how to make quote boxes:

http://davesgarden.com/faq/forums/#172

HoneyBeeNC, thanks for the "quotes" link.

Horseshoe, can greensand be used OK on acidic soils to provide potassium?

Also, how can one estimate the amount of greensand needed for just one plant? I've been in the habit of adding rock phosphate and greensand when I put a new plant in my perennial garden. I didn't know about the dangers of too much greensand (and rock phosphate too???). Application rates on the bag are in terms of large square foot areas.

tia
las

I agree with twiggybuds. I grew PB this spring and it produced well into the hottest June on record here. The plants were bushy and compact, and while I didn't count exactly (we were always eating them out of the garden), I think by the time it was said and done we got 300+ tomates off each plant. I would go out and randomly grab 30-40 at a time. They were very good! I foliar fed them every week to 10 days with fish emulsion and that's it... I will definitely be growing this one again!

Kelly

Kelly my tomato season ended by the end of June on account of abnormally hot weather. I also grow in containers and thought that might have steamed the roots more than they would have suffered in the ground.

In the firm belief that any fresh tomato is better than none, I'm going to try to start some of these every 4 weeks or so in an effort to get through the summer with something. I split and dried scads of them and like to snack on them like raisins.

Did you have any other varieties that did well in the heat?

The other one that performs pretty well for me is the Moskvich, a Russian Heirloom. It's a great tasting mater too... Also the Rutgers, but I planted them late so didn't get as good a crop as I could have. I know there are a few hybrids that are supposed to perform better in the heat, but I have not tried them as I only grow Heirlooms. My friend here grows Early Girl and Celebrity and I think Sweet 100 - all hybrids that seem to do well for her.

I have several different varieties I got from wintersown.org that I plan to try for spring. To deal with the heat issue, I try to pick varieties that are early to see if I can get a decent crop before the heat. The problem we had this year was a cooler than usual May, which set the heat lovers back a bit, then a hot as blazes June through up until about a week ago . . . We had a few days over 100° in October... So my maters did not even limp through summer with the rest of the garden. They flat out bit the dust!

I did save seeds from the Moskvich and will grow those out in the spring. I also sent some to another DGer who is going to grow them out as well. I'm hoping they did not cross - chances are low - but there is always that possibility I suppose. I didn't save seeds from the Principe - we ate them too fast - lol... I plan to buy some transplants from the Farmer's Market come spring. There is a grower there that has great plants. I originally grew it because I garden in raised, square foot beds and wanted another mater that wouldn't try and take over the garden... It tried anyway - lol.

Right now I'm growing Cold Set and Black Russian, both Heirlooms that are supposed to be more cold tolerant. We will see - lol. The Cold Set I've read has withstood temps as low as 18°F. Perfect "winter" tomatoes for the desert.

Any that were really successful for you in the heat? Even though we are totally different climates - you all have that humidity we don't...

Only First Pick and Principe Borghese. Nothing else even thought about setting fruit. My weather was way off normal in that the "dog days", which is daily showers, lasted from early July until a couple weeks ago. Normally that only lasts 2 or 3 weeks in July and much of the rest of the growing season is really dry. That promoted disease and prevented any kind of effective treatment. The humidity was usually above 80% which made it feel a lot hotter than it actually was.

I planted a lot of determinates to save space and avoid cages. I also had some of the popular indeterminates and they all finished at about the same time on account of the heat. I'm going to repeat some of them along with new ones next year to see if I can find some that perform longer under normal conditions.

I had great production this year but it was only because I got them out very early and lots of them. I'd whole lots rather have some all season with fewer plants.

Please let me know how you do with Cold Set and the Black Russian. My lowest temps are usually around 27 and that's only once or twice per year.

I think getting them out early is the key. We rarely have a freeze or even close, so I'm hoping these two live up to their names - lol. The Russian Heirlooms are grown in colder climates - that's why I like them for my winter (if you can call it that) garden. I'll let you all know how they do.

Interrupting some "delicious tomato talk" for a second....

LAS, "Horseshoe, can greensand be used OK on acidic soils to provide potassium?" Yes, you can use greensand on acidic soils. Keep in mind you really want your pH to only be slightly acidic for most crops. (It can be much lower for potatoes though.) You might also want to try granite dust if you find it to be cheaper. And of course good compost, composted manures, etc, also offer potash as well so don't feel that greensand is the only source. Your best bet is to use both organic sources as well as the mineral sources, organic for short-term release and mineral for long term.

"Also, how can one estimate the amount of greensand needed for just one plant? I've been in the habit of adding rock phosphate and greensand when I put a new plant in my perennial garden."

First, remember rock phosphate will be there a while so don't feel the need to use it yearly. It is only released when the roots of a plant reach out and touch it. Unless you have a big flood or over-irrigate on a regular basis your rock phosphate shouldn't wash out.

As to how much to use "per plant", I'd recommend using the application rates on your bag and dividing it down. If it is so many pounds per 1000 sq feet, for example, think about how big your perennial is going to get (width of top growth) to guesstimate its square footage. Then you can figure it up pretty easily. (For example, "10 pounds per 1000 sq ft" would reduce down to "1 pound per 100 sq ft; 1/2 pound per 50 sq feet; 1/4 per 25 sq ft...and on down the ladder.) I may have a chart in this computer somewhere, if I can find it I'll come back and post.

Shoe