Semi-Hydroponics Revisited

I thought I would start a thread to revisit semi-hydro to talk about my experiences with it and to get feedback from others who have seriously tried this method of growing. I tried it in a fairly big way with 15-20 different Hoyas rooted and grown using both Hydroton and Prime-Agra clay pellets with a reservoir in the bottom. I went into this experiment very optimistically from everything that I had read about it.

All the plants rooted very quickly, but with very few exceptions growth stalled. Soon growth rates of plants grown conventionally were doing so much better that with only a few exceptions I pulled the plug on the experiment. Here is one of the success stories. Here is H. lacunosa around 10 months after starting from several six inch cuttings. There are currently around twenty open or ready to open peduncles on this plant.

Doug

This message was edited Sep 28, 2009 6:11 PM

Here is the other Success story - H. linearis. I've killed this plant any other way that I have tried to grow it.

Doug

Even more interestingly growing it this way also promotes flowering. I had one bloom that lasted about a month over the summer, and I just noticed there are 4-5 peduncles forming on the few strands on linearsis that I have. I don't have a very good picture showing them, but for what it is worth.

Now as to what went wrong with the other plants, I simply do not know. I tried many different types from H. magnifica to H. multiflora, and they completely under performed. I don't know if I over watered them. Part of what drew me to semi-hydro was I thought it was pretty much impossible to overwater because excess water simply ran out of the holes in the side of the pot. Also, algae became a big problem and after a while it was impossible to see the water level in the pot.

After exploring a number of orchid forums, it also seems that many of the people who were big into s-h have switched back to conventional methods of growing. I'm wondering about people on this forum if they are still having good luck with this method or not. I not talking about using the method only to root cuttings; I know that this works very well. I'm talking about growing them out to maturity.

I will continue to fool around a little bit with Semi-hydro, but I know at least for me it is not a magic bullet for growing Hoya. I can however, based upon my personal experience, reccomend it for H. linearis and H. lacunosa.

Doug

I'm thinking that semi-hydro is a good way to start a lot of hoyas, but not all, and a good way to grow a few of them, but not many. What I think goes wrong is that there's just too much water - the roots don't "behave" and stay above the water line in the dishes, they grow because its their nature and essentially get waterlogged. I've still got many in s/h and the ones that have been in the longest, have like you said, stalled in their growing. One I transplanted into a larger pot and that made it happier. I'm not overjoyed with it, but I do like the ease of watering day. I keep algae mostly at bay by using potting containers that you can't see through at all. But with the hoyas that get a lot of sun, its a losing battle.

Interestingly, I'm having major success with linearis also, but its in potting medium, and also has two umbels of buds the same size as yours. I let it totally dry out between waterings.

I rooted two lacunosa cuttings this past summer in s/h for a friend, who then said he didn't want it "in water". So I switched it to potting medium, and it went south. One cutting died. The other one's just barely hanging on.

So, mixed feelings here. Its a living experiment indeed.


Christine

Thank you Christine for such a detailed and honest response. Your experience seems to mirror my own. I'm wondering if there are any more people on this forum that have stories about semi-hydro. There was a person here that seemed to grow many of her hoyas in S-H with great results; I think her forum name was kellyknits. I have not seen her post here for a while.

Doug

Interesting discussion...I received an h. magnifica from Doug in a trade and it was in semi-hydro...I was so impressed with the size and root system of the plant that I asked him about keeping it that way, even though I'd never grown anything s.h....his response was pretty tepid, so, after letting the plant adjust a little, I repotted it in my regular mix and gave it a bamboo hoop...since then it's swarmed up the hoop and is putting out several peduncles----well, at this point they're just little fuzzy nubbins at a few leaf axils, but they're definitely beginning peduncles :-)....so I'd say maybe, for a lot of hoyas, rooting in semi-hydro and getting a big healthy start, followed by switching to regular mix to keep growth going, MAY be the way to go...I'll be interested in hearing other's experiences...

Shelley

Wow Shelley! I'm really happy that plant I sent you is doing that well. Maybe I should send you some more :) It would really be funny if you flower H. magnifica before I do, and believe me I'll be just as happy if you do. So far the mother plant is looking pretty good too, especially compared to last year, but no signs of any peduncles yet for me.

Doug

Ahhh Doug---as you know there is such a HUGE way to go from little baby peduncles to actual flowers that I'm not even going there yet :-)....best case scenario, the peduncles sit there all winter and MAYBE develop some next Spring...I'll keep you posted...my money would be on your well established mother plant...

Meanwhile, I love h. linearis and have had limited success....I saved all those hydroton pellets from magnifica and when I get my next linearis, sometime next Spring, I'm going to try it that way...I'll let people know how it goes...

Shelley

I tried the semi hydro a couple of times but had no luck, but they were out on the deck and there's so much humidity out there I just assumed it was way too much moisture.

I got H. magnifica in the DL co-op last year. I tried the moist perlite in the plastic bag method, then semi hydro and just couldn't make up my mind so I finally planted it in my regular mix. Once I made the decision to leave it alone, it rooted, has been a bit slow but began to put on a lot more growth this summer. I have a couple of others from the 2008 order that just haven't wanted to grow much at all. They rooted okay but just sit there doing nothing. All of a sudden this year they have begun to show signs of growth. I was attributing it to possibly the beer formula fertilizer that I had never tried until May of this year, but am now thinking it had nothing to do with that stuff ... I think some plants are just reluctant to acclimate to their new surroundings and take their own time. Of course I am not a help when I waffle back and forth from day to day about how I want to root them ... with the abuse they get from me I'm surprised they survived at all.

This is magnifica that I'm hoping will really grow next summer and possibly grace me a bloom or two.

This is H. memoria and H. citrina from the 2008 order. Two more that I couldn't make up my mind on how I wanted to root them, they also went from plastic baggie/perlite to semi hydro to potting mix.

H. citrina still looks pitiful and not healthy to me but memoria is perking up and looking good.

Very healthy looking plants Lin! Even your H. citrina looks good compared to mine.

Doug

Thanks Doug. How long have you had your citrina? Those two large leaves on mine are the original vine cutting and seem to stay spotty looking with yellowish blotches, but the new growth foliage seems to look okay. I just wish it would grow.

Lin,

I think I've had it well over 2 years. When I first got the cutting it did very well and then went down hill quickly; I have been trying to save it ever since. I could very well just need a new healthy cutting to start over with.

Doug

I've had pretty good luck overall with the Hoya I've tried in S/H. The algae issue doesn't bother me- it hasn't seemed to have hurt the Hoya so far, and the water level in my containers stays pretty consistent as the drain holes start about 1" up from the bottom of the pot, so there is always 1" or less of water in the reservoir.
I've had good luck with:
multiflora
campanulata
incrassata
citrina
fusco-marginata
sp. Haraku
and one or two more.

and indifferent results with:
kenejiana
ischnopus
archboldiana

I guess there is some level of genetic makeup that makes Hoya good or bad candidates for S/H.

I think that the growth issue with some of the cuttings purchased from DL is due to the fact that the cuttings are coming from the southern hemisphere and being moved to the northern hemisphere.

The cuttings I just received at the end of August, came from plants getting ready to go into summer-growth-mode, in the southern hemisphere, but here in the northern hemisphere, we are heading into fall and winter and just the opposite is happening: plants are getting ready to go dormant for the season. I think this really messes with the cuttings and it takes them a while to become acustomed to our seasons and to know when to start growing.

Just my .02
Mike

Good information Mark. I think you are right about genetic makeup, at least in my case it was clear cut that many Hoyas just did not like the s-h method, but the couple that did really grew quite strongly. I also feel that Christine's theory about many Hoyas going downhill after their roots make it into the resevoir is very true. This would explain why they root so fast initially and then stall or go into decline after the roots make it to the water.

Doug

Hey, Doug!

I've mostly just been lurking these days.

I have some that have been wildly successful in semi-hydro - cv. Iris Marie, fungii to name two; many which have been fine in semi-hydro and some that have totally failed and I have no idea why - thomsonii is one that will not grow in semi-hydro for me....

Have also found that not all hoyas root easily in semi-hydro, so I've been adding a good bit of perlite to it as well.

I started with semi-hydro late last summer, I believe. This summer I've notice the ones I have inside in semi-hydro need to be watered almost twice a week, whereas, what I have in a mix only need watering about once every two weeks ago.

The ones I have outside I water about once a week directly from the hose, no plant food at all. Some are growing well, some are stalled.

Is Ewelina of http://hoyas.ca/ on here? She has far more experience with semi-hydro then I do. Also, check out this site http://www.christinashoyor.se/Hoyor_A-L.htm . I believe Christina grows all of her's in semi-hydro and just in jars! Would love to know what she feeds hers!

Will try to get some pics soon of ones that are doing well in semi-hydro!
Kelly

Hey Kelly! Nice to hear from you again!....and might I add that the Swedish site you gave us is exactly the kind of thing that makes me want to run headfirst into a wall. Repeatedly. I mean, where is the FAIRNESS???? She's got gorgeous blooming hoyas that are apparently jammed into glass jars and set at random around her house---no greenhouse, no fancy plant room, no elaborate lighting setups....and here I am with my various potions and fertilizers and carefully constructed soil mixes and my misting and foliar feeding and my plants don't look one tenth as good as hers, or bloom with one tenth of the frequency...sigh....sorry, just had to get that off my chest....anyhow, back on topic, Christina does seem to be having amazing success with semi-hydro and her web site is fascinating... thanks (I think) for the link!

Shelley

Kelly,

Thanks so much for posting; I am so glad that you are still around! You were one of the people that inspired me to take the plunge into s-h, because of all of your beautiful blooms. It really looks like s-h works well for a few hoyas, but clearly not all of them. I also have to say that some of the Hoyas that it seems to work well on can also be very easily be grown conventionally. In my case, lacunosa and at least for me Iris Marie may be the fast growing Hoya that I have ever grown. I have given away pots of the stuff. It is not easy to bloom without full on sunshine, but as far as growing quickly and filling an entire window with folliage, I can't think of a faster grower.

H. thomsonii is a good example of a Hoya that is a difficult grower, which I was hoping s-h was going to be the answer to being able to grow easily. The biggest reason that I took the s-h plunge was to make growing the difficult ones easy, and in my case it did not live up to expectations.

I'm looking forward to seeing pictures of some of your success stories, and once again it is good to see you posting again.

Kelly,

I also just looked at the Swedish site. You have got to be kidding me! How does she do it? If I had to guess, I would have to say that with all those glass jars full of what looks like fairly fine medium, she must fill them full of water and then immediately put her hand over the jar and drain it out. If she did that there would be no resevoir for the roots to find there way into and die back. Any way you look at it though, the site is a lot of fun to look at. Thanks for posting that link! I'm going to study it more when I have time.

Doug

She seems to use crushed volcanic rock as her medium. I wish she would go into more detail about how she cares for these plants. How does she flush the salts out for instance. What are her environmental conditions like? Truly remarkable results though. As many of you know, I have gone head over heels into some of these "new methods" with some truly disastrous results in the past. I would have to know a lot more, before I try any more of these "miracle growing methods." I guess with enough failures, a skeptic is born.

Doug

Well, I'm still not convinced that the "Swedish success" has anything to do with growing media or watering routines....I suspect it has more to do with day length and quality of light....I'm also wondering what happens to their hoyas during the long, dark Scandinavian winters? Do they go dormant, and could part of the secret be a long winter's rest? Or is the light quality good enough that they keep growing year round? At least some of the Swedish literature hints that temperature fluctuations on a daily, and even yearly, basis help hoyas to flower...are the temperature drops at night and during the winter part of the equation? Hmmmm....I'd love to see some sort of study on the differences between light, temps, and humidity in Sweden and northern North America....

I did sign Christina's guest list and asked her if she uses fertilizer or plant food. Will let you know if I hear back from her.

When time permits I want to translate the pages to English in hopes of understanding more! Truly amazing that she grows in jars....

Mark, are you using a combination of bark and hydroton for semi-hydro?

Kelly

The Google button on top of the page translated most of the text into English, but there was no real detail there that I could find. It seems she switched over to this method from a soil based mix in 2007 and there was no going back after that. I just don't understand it. Most of the pictures look like the mix is very wet; it seems like the roots would just rot away. The mix does not look all that different than the Tapla's Turface mix that I used a couple of years ago and lost the roots on all of my plants. I really want to know more!

Doug

Kelly, no, I'm using pure hydroton for the S/H, but I do use a half and half hydroton bark mix for regular plantings, that is, plants in pots which drain freely and have no reservoir.
Here are a few Hoya which are doing well and have been in S/H for about a year, all from fairly small cuttings.
(left to right)
H. wallichii, H. multiflora and H. endauensis.
Some speculation:
I think some of the success has to do with in what conditions roots form. Roots that develop under water don't adapt well to a free-draining medium, and roots that develop in soil usually rot and die when kept very wet with little oxygen.
I've heard of people growing Hoya quite successfully for years in nothing but plain water in a sealed vase or pot.
Most of the problems I have had with S/H seem to have been from plants that were rooted or grown in a different medium than S/H. The most success I have had has been with plants which came as un-rooted cuttings, and developed their entire root system in that setup. With these plants, they seem to have no problem with their roots living in the underwater portion of the reservoir. in fact, that's were most of the roots seem to congregate.

Mark,

Those are some very nice looking healthy plants (Pretty cat too by the way). Your plants look very similar to those grown on the Swedish site above. Maybe there is something to your speculation about how the plants were started in the first place. Maybe I will try a couple more cuttings just for fun, and stick with it no matter what.

Doug

I wonder if the quality of the water used in the s/h pots makes a difference in the success? Since I moved from Chicago city water to natural spring well water in Georgia, my hoyas have rooted and grown MUCH faster. The water I use now has no additives, unlike the many chemicals in Chicago water. I know it has made ME healthier, so I suspect it would also effect the plants in the same way. I have many hoyas in S/H and transferred many of my under performing plants from soil into S/H this spring with spectacular results. But I have only been using S/H for most of my plants for about a year now, so I am not a long time user.

Very interesting thread, Doug. I have not had much luck growing or rooting with the s/h. I tried rooting a few cuttings with a side by side pot of hydroton and a pot of course perlite. Both pots had about an inch reservoir for water and the cuttings in perlite rooted up nicely while those in hydroton did nothing. For some odd reason, I just do better with perlite and don't have problems with it compacting. I do have a yellow heuschkeliana hanging in a quart container with hydroton and it is doing ok, but, overall I am underwhelmed with s/h.

Doug and Lin, don't give up on getting a magnifca bloom. Mine tends to bloom in fall, which is always a nice surprise when the cold winds start blowing in.

Mel: Thanks for the info about magnifica! I can't wait to see blooms on that one! Mine is finally growing, so I have hopes of seeing blooms in the next year!

I love heuschkeliana, my pink one came in a trade a couple of years ago and I just love those teeny blooms. It smells nice too so I'm assuming the yellow one is fragrant as well? I think I'm going to order the yellow version next spring .. I like Doug's idea of planting them together!

Mel,

Thanks for the information on H. magnifica blooming in the fall. For some reason, I had thought it was a spring bloomer. My plant has never looked as good as it does right now so maybe there is hope yet for a bloom this year! If we just had a little bit more sun here in VT, I'm sure it would be helpful in bringing it to flower. Oh well, you have to work with what you've got.

Doug

Here are a couple of more sites from people using semi-hydro:


http://www.brumiel.fr/sitehoyaphile/Hydroponie.html
http://www.sylvinebruneau.com/
http://www.wikihoya.org/wiki/index.php/Accueil

Kelly

my H magnifica is budding up for the first time. Plant is about 2 years old and has 4 peduncles budding up....fingers crossed
Dominic

I think that someone above stated that their hoyas do fine in SH until the roots reach the water reservoir. I've been thinking about this for a while (very dangerous) and was wondering if anyone has used some form of capilary action to keep the Hydroton moist?

I was thinking about using several strands of acrylic yarn braded together to form a heavier wick. The wick would run from the reservoir into the Hydroton, to keep it moist. This way no water would be needed in the bottom of the container that is housing the plant. As long as the reservoir does not dry out, the Hydroton should stay moist and the plant should do very well. Since there is no water at the bottom of the container, the plant should continue to do well since the roots will never encounter a pool of water.

I have not tried this and I'm just wondering if anyone else may have come up with this solution? If anyone has tried this, please let us know the results of this type of setup.
Thanks,
Mike

I used to grow African Violets and a couple of other Gesneriads using the wick method and thought about it for a couple of Hoyas but there's just so much humidity here in my area I was afraid of root rot, so never switched them. I did plant my H. multiflora into one of those ceramic two part self watering african violet pots awhile back and it looked good for awhile but then began to look pitiful so I moved it back to my regular mix. I just can't seem to figure out what that one wants. It's just a small plant but I cut the top off last week and I'm trying to root the piece I cut. The original stem has a teeny little new leaf starting so we shall see. Maybe if the part I cut off roots I will try it with the wicking method.

edited to add: For wicking material, it's probably best to use a polyester twine (I used to buy it in the hardware section at Wal-Mart), cotton yarn rots fairly quickly. Years ago I used panty hose cut into strips but that seemed to absorb and take up too much water and kept the soil too soggy, but it might be because I cut the strips too thick.

This message was edited Oct 5, 2009 2:17 PM

Dominic, Fantastic news about the buds on your H. magnifica. I just found a peduncle on mine with the buds about 1/10 the size of yours. I got so excited that I just added a grow light to the plant for additional light. Once again here in New England a couple of weeks with almost no sun. I'm hoping that the extra light may help the plant be able to develop the buds - I will be happy if my buds get to the size of yours - fingers crossed.

Shelley, thanks for alerting me to the peduncles on your magnifica, and Mel for telling me about the plant liking to bloom in the fall. It is what made me scour my plant for any kinds of signs of a peduncle.

Mike, I like your idea of the wick. Kelly, do you still use those self-watering pots from Wal*Mart for your semi-hydro. Do they have wicks or do they use the slots in the bottom of the pot to absorb water from the saucer? Their design may stop the roots from actually making it into the water. Part of what drew me to try s-h was because I thought it would be impossible to actually over water the plant, but I think you still can very easily accomplish this without much effort. I had a hard time with it to tell when to water because the pellets on top always looked dry to me, and I could not force a finger down into the pellets to check for dampness. I could not tell if there was water in the reservoir, because the algae didn't permit me to see the water level so I would water many times when the plant did not need it. I think the best type of pot for me would have been those that had a built in float that indicated how much water was in the reservoir.

Doug

I am still using the self watering pots from Walmart with only a few exceptions. The pots have the slots at the bottom. A couple of exceptions that I have just growing in a glass, vase or dish are curitisii, several stems of linearis, carnosa (very shallow dish!) and string of pearls.

Took some pictures the other day. Hopefully I'll have time to download them tonight.


Kelly

This message was edited Oct 6, 2009 7:08 AM

Thanks Kelly. I would love to see pictures.

Doug

Doug--Congratulations on your peduncles! (that sounds kind of weird...)...actually you're one up on me because mine are still just little nubs--no buds yet (but if I wear my clothes right no one will be able to tell..ar, ar, ar)....Anyhow, it seems between the three of us, SOMEONE should have blooms this Fall/Winter and I hope whoever it is posts pictures...

And Kelly, I would love to see pictures too...this is an interesting thread...

Shelley

ROFLMBO Shelley! That is so cute, but don't worry ... little nubs can turn into little buds, which can turn into big fat ... blooms! ^_^

I'm going to be checking my magnifica every day, although Fall for us is probably a month or more away, if we even get any fall like weather. I guess I could possibly have magnifica flowers in January or February, which is our winter! That would really be very nice!