I wrote to some leading Lily Hybridizers and received this wonderful information on two of NALS Hall of Fame winners that I was looking for Journey's End and Enchantment. It is a very sad story on these lilies.
Answer from B & D Lilies
As far as I know, both Journey's End and Enchantment are extinct in commerce. J. End from Yeates in New Zealand was introduced in the late 50's. It's demise came when Holland named a similar colored oriental with a green center rather than the chocolate center as 'Journey's End' It has become common for Dutch companies to "borrow" names from successful lilies and run them into the ground. The Dutch "J. End' was very prone to virus and died out quickly but being mass produced for the cut flower trade and being offered by most of the "Bottom Feeders" at a very low price, the real J. End could not compete on the open market. As far as I know, we were the last to offer it and gave it up 5 or 6 years ago. If you do find a "Jouneys End" kicking around still and it is being offered by one of the Dutch companies, it is not the Yeates clone.
I do have a tetraploid hybrid of J. End that is named 'LaVern Frieman' which you can see a photo of on our web site, It was a selection we made from his breeding work and was named for LaVern after he died. It is not available this year, but there may be a few bulbs in the fall of 2010. We are putting it into tissue culture this fall as well.
Enchantment fell by the wayside many years ago. After De Graaff sold OBF to George Hubilne, many of the old De Graaff varieties were dumped in favor of what was felt to be the better lilies for forcing. When OBF went bankrupt and Cebecco Holland took over, all of the deGraaff material that was remaining was either destroyed or just dropped from production. Bank of American I am told destroyed some 6 million bulbs during the bankruptcy. The genetic value of what was destroyed could never be caculated and that work never replaced. B of A set lilies back who knows how many years simply becuase they did not want to pay to have the bulbs harvested. Everything was disked. Gary Strahm of Strahm Lilies had to get a court order to go in to save some of his fathers material that OBF had bought but had yet to pay for. He was given one day and only he could dig the bulbs. He was able to get a few of each variety, but over the years was unable to build many of them back up to their glory days. Gary retired 4 years ago and we obtained his planting stock which we are working with now. Much of it though has been discontinued. I did an exhaustive search for Enchantment 3 years ago and there are none. Even the Dutch breeders have quit using it. My hope was to find it in someone's gene pool but was unable to do so.
I appreciate your suggestion of having a special selection of NALS favorites and we at one time did so. We have been producing bulbs for the garden trade now for 31 years now with B & D Lilies being the oldest lily speciality nursery in the US now. We also felt at one time that people would break down the doors trying to get their hands of the NALS favorites, but alas, that is not the case. NALS members in our case make up less than 2% of our customer base. As for the other 98%, they either don't know of or simply don't care about NALS or what members of the NALS like. They are only interested in what they like from the photos they see and what they feel will do well in their garden and color pattern. We still grow and offer from time to time 'White Henryi', 'Gold Eagle', and 'Black Beauty' from Leslie Woodriff as well as 'Scheherazade' bred by LaVern Frieman. I also have a few others in my private collection, but they are no longer in commercial production. Unfortunately there simply is not a sufficient demand for them to “pay the bills”.
You might try Judith Freeman at ‘The Lily Garden’. If anyone still has a single bulb of ‘J. End’ it would be Judith. Other than B & D Lilies, Judith is the only other grower on the West Coast. I personally would love to get my hands on some of the old Stone & Payne “Connecticut” hybrids again, but I fear they are all lost as well. It is funny that something that was felt to be no longer of importance a decade or so ago all of a sudden becomes highly important later in life. I believe Judith still propagates the old S & P Hybrid ‘Red Velvet’ which I think is on the NALS list.
Just a thought, you might want to place an ad in the Quarterly Bulletin for J. End and / or Enchantment. For J. End though stress that the original source must be from B & D Lilies, The Lily Garden, Strahm Lilies (they are gone now), or Leslie Woodriff. The four of us were the only ones growing the Yeats Clone. Any other source is going to be the green centered Dutch form which you do not want unless you have farm animals to feed.
Best regards and good luck,
Bob
Answer from Buggy Crazy
I have purchased both of those and found them not to be correct. I got Journey's End from B&D who advertised they had the real one, not the washed out fake one, I got the fake one, but I should be glad it wasn't virused. They do not grow all of their lilies but purchase from wholesalers.
I got Enchantment many, many years ago from Gurney's, Of course it was not Enchantment.
Since I know of NO reliable source to purchase them I do not have them. Nearly all the lily production in the world is for the cut flower trade and mostly produced in 3rd world countries that have no worker protection or environmental protection laws so mass production is cheap. I doubt anyone is producing those as they wouldn't be what is commonly sold for cut flowers.
It is very difficult/impossible to obtain some of the oldies but goodies, Earth Angel, Allegra, Midnight just to name a few.
Good luck searching.
Lisa
Answer from The Lily Pad
Thanks for your email. I grew both Enchantment and Journey's End long ago. I watched them both go downhill in my own production area. I was advised that virus-free stock of these old varieties is very hard to come by. It almost seems like the end of the Journey for some of these older types. I have not seen either one offered in the industry lately at all. As you may know the Dutch cut flower industry drives the mainstream bulb industry. Journey's End is quite down-facing and the cut flower growers don't go for that. Enchantment has too many spots to be popular as a cut flower in the eyes of the Dutch. It may well be that these have been abandoned altogether. The American lily bulb industry collapsed with the demise of the old Oregon Bulb Farms many years ago, which was very sad.. I lost all of Journey's end and Enchantment about that time, probably due to virus It takes quite an investment to resurrect the virused stock by meristem culture, so I wouldn't imagine any of the small-time producers are going to take this upon thermselves. The biggest challenge might be to FIND any remaining stock, healthy enough to work with.
I'll keep my eyes open. I think these two would be widely-appreciated by collectors of heirloom types, if virus-free bulbs could be obtained.
Yours Very Truly,
Jan Detwiler
THE LILY PAD
Wonderful Hybridizer Information On Journey's End & Enchantm
Interesting findings. Thank you for sharing that information. B&D's account has a lot of history in there, which I really appreciate. The lilies overall, are bred for cut flower, yes, and not for our yards. The Oregon Bulb Farm story I have heard excerpts from over the years, it is one very sad, sad story.
I remember when OBF went under. There was a big writeup in the newspaper. Unfortunately at that time, it was the first time I had heard of them. Yup, right when they went under and really made the news.
Very, very interesting. Thank you for posting the answers from the growers.
I remember when OBF went out too. I was not familiar with them at the time, either, and since have learned so much more about the company. So very sad that happened.
B & D saying the Dutch have 'borrowed' names from successful lilies and running them into the ground............they are now doing the same with Japanese irises. Buying inferior rhizomes of Japanese iris from Japan, and flooding the market with them, showing pretty pictures, and then what you get is usually nothing like the pictures. And the big retail houses like Wayside, Parks, and Van Bourgodien are selling them and they are getting all over the US. I wonder what other plants this is happening with?
In particular you don't want to buy the ubiquitous JIs Eden's Paintbrush or Gracieuse or for me I just don't buy any at the garden centers anymore. Only order from the growers, just like I do for other irises and lilies.
Yes Pard, getting the word out not to buy them will help. In Japanese irises, anything of the Eden strain, Pink Lady, Shogun (there actually was a Shogun, but the ones they are selling now are not), Geisha Girl, plus the ones you mentioned are not registered Japanese irises, and might be any color, or any form, but are usually three falls common purple.
Unfortunately people see the pretty pictures at places like Henry Fields and buy the wrong named irises and then trade them as named, and on they go.
I agree with Pard, buy from the growers. I've only ever had two wrong named beardless irises, out of hundreds. Another thing you can do with irises, of course, is check the registry. I don't know if they have a central registry for lilies.
What do you think of this Japanese iris, Pard? Do you think it will look like this?
http://henryfields.com/shogun-japanese-iris/p/75275/
I recall we discussed that one before. What a joke!!!
Wow, I don't know anything about JI but can still tell there's something wrong with that photo.
Yep, it doesn't come in anything close to that color. Price is right, though. I guarantee it will be a purple. And probably look like this picture.
http://www.paghat.com/images/japaniris-june.jpg
I received this additional information from The Lily Garden today which I thought I would share. There is still hope for the lily Journey's End. As my love for lilies grew, Thank goodness for this forum. I used to purchase lilies (and other plants) based on price and beautiful pictures that these mass cheap places offered. I can't believe the difference in the lilies that I've purchased in the last couple of years from the wonderful breeders mentioned in this forum.
Answer from The Lily Garden
I don't know if anyone has the true 'Enchantment' any longer; there are Dutch companies that use the name but just sell whatever orange Asiatic they are trying to dump under the name. I started breeding lilies at Oregon Bulb Farms in 1971, so I've seen a lot of 'Enchantment' bulbs over the years, and it is a lovely lily.
I also just love 'Journey's End,' but I lost my original bulbs when I moved my fields to their present location. I had started propagating new stocks a few years ago and offered them to the regional lily societies--and the next year we had a "cow invasion" in the field and 'Journey's End' was the variety that got stomped. I've started propagating again, but it will be about 4 years before I can offer it. I did ship bulbs a few years ago to the Strohmans at the Lily Nook in Neepawa, Manitoba, and Barrie says they do still have some.
'Journey's End' is one of the few Orientals that isn't so susceptible to virus. My present field gets cold earlier than the fields I had in Oregon, and it's harder to grow and propagate the Orientals. The Orienpets do so much better for me, tolerating both heat and cold much better than the Orientals, so I've put my efforts into breeding them, but I'm still determined to propagate the few Oriental clones that DO persist in the garden!
Best wishes,
Judith Freeman
The Lily Garden
Lily Nook may have some Enchantment bulbs too. They have it in their picture gallery. I think there are some Enchantment lilies around in a few Manitoba gardens, if the real one looks like the one in Ed McRae's book.
echoes, Thanks for the suggestion I've also written to the Lily Nook looking for these lilies.
Only problem with Lily Nook as a source for 'Journey's End' is that they now only ship to the US in the Fall, which means no orientals, as those are only shipped in the spring.
Nice additional info. provided by Judith. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, like buying from the grower ;)
magnolialover, Thanks for the information.
Thanks for the wonderful information and history Dlefferts. So much I didn't know. I'm actually pasting it into a document for my files. It's wonderful how responsive the individuals at these companied are. I sent B&D an inquiry this morning and received a response within an hour. I'm placing an order.
And Tracey, I've long wanted Journey's End but couldn't find it. And OHG offered Enchantment years ago but not currently.
I've got to say that I am stunned and disappointed that NALS members are only 2% of B&D's customer base. The NALS list pointed me in the direction of The Lily Garden and then it was a hop, skip and a jump to B&D.
Donna
So without ferreting out the great pics of "Journey's End" posted here, is anyone lucky enough to have the real thing with the "black" centers (not green)? A real treasure, indeed!
I got mine from Judith (the Lily Garden), so I am assuming mine is the real thing.
Picture of a Journey's End offered at Great Lakes Nursery this Spring. They seem to speicalize in Dutch Blubs.
