feeding the soil first!

c - Our stores carry seeds year round since we can plant year round. You can plant most greens as cool season crops, including Asian greens. A good site I like to buy seeds from is Botanical Interests. They have great seeds and good prices, plus their shipping is fast and cheap. I have had excellent results with their seeds.

www.botanicalinterests.com

Linda - I prefer to direct sow all my veggies. I've heard the reasoning that transplants have better production but direct sown plants are stronger and more resistant to pests and such. In my experience I've had the best crops with direct sowing. Here we can direct sow tomato seeds as early as January! I've always started my peppers and tomatoes inside and transplanted, but this year I will direct sow and start some for backup just in case - lol. In the wild seeds have no help (interference?) from humans and do just fine on their own...

Hey, Kelly!
That's the logic I'm going with. Wasn't sure which spring veggies I should winter sow and which I should just direct seed. Could you post me a list of which is which?

Besides tomatoes (which I'll do like you propose, 1/2 & 1/2), I've not grown anything else in Spring. But, I have brand new seeds for lots of warm/hot weather stuff, so I've got that base covered. Just need to know which to direct sow and which to winter sow in protected containers for future plantout.

Also, would like to winter sow some garden plants for springtime, too.

Thanks!

I think most ornamentals can be winter sown unless they are really frost tender. In the wild they drop seeds and survive until they're ready to sprout, right? With veggies, in my mind direct sowing is the same as winter sowing (since it is winter - lol)...

Attaching the link for the planting calendar I use. You are probably similar in temps though I think our summers are more brutal than Houston. We really don't get frost or even close depending on where you live here in the valley. The calendar has a great legend and shows optimal and good planting times, planting times with protection and when to plant transplants. Of course it's only a guide, but I find it pretty useful. I always figure if I direct sow something and it doesn't come up for whatever reason, I'm already ahead of the game and can resort to Plan B - re-sow or set out transplants...

The dates gived for direct seedind could also be your guideline for winter sowing, no?

http://www.yourguidetogreen.com/TheUrbanFarm/wp-content/uploads/Planting_Calendar.pdf

I think it would be a very interesting experiment to both winter sow and to start backups for the ones that are most important. It would narrow down what temps and times work best in your area. I have had some experience where it was warm early and then a rogue frost came along to wipe things out.

Just last week I found 3 tiny onion plants in a pot with a pepper. Last year this time, that pot had green onions sown from seed. That's clear evidence that seeds can last a long time and emerge whenever they like the conditions. It's hard to believe it took them this long to get happy.

Yeah, what Twiggybuds said!

I was typing to fast. What I was badly saying was that if you block the adult bug from laying the eggs on the plants then no caterpillars. Remay (Brand Name ) is a floating row cover that some people use to do so. Tulle Fabric is one also. In the book One Straw Revolution the author talks about taking a seed and making a clay ball around it.
Then tossing it outside where he wants it to grow. Rain and general wheather break down the clay ball and when the seed is exposed it is close to time for it. I agree with direct sowing in general but don't always do it due to price of seeds and abundance of birdies watching the planted garden. Seed Vigor tests measure the ability of a plant to germinate in less than ideal situations. Needless to say many can germinate outside of what is ideal but that is not always a good thing.

Boy, getting busy and trying to prepare for this hurricain- tropical storm. I am devating whether covering my raise beds with plastic would do any good, but I certainly don't want my hard work to be ruined by this storm.

I finally purchased the shelving unit to build my seed starter, hopefully I'll have my DH build it for me this week so I can start more seedlings.

I agree with Gerry, I tend to start my seeds inside as well to try to save $ and so that way I don't have to thin as much, some seeds can last a long time, unfortunately according to a book I am reading it says that onion seeds and lettuce seeds only last a year. I also use the pinch method if I am to sow seeds outside, I've gotten pretty good at it and even lettuce seeds I am able to just grab 3-4 seeds max.

I like to use heirloom seed as much as I can and it is just more economical for me to start inside plus I just like to watch the plants grow. It's just so amazing to me.

Boy I am mad.

I just went to check my plants after the storm, I decided yesterday to cover them with plastic, even nailed the plastic to the raised beds so the plastic would not blow away thinking that this way they would be better protected and I did more damage than anything else. It had been raining all night so the water puddled inside the plastic and crushed all my plants inside, the broccoli gone, the swiss chard gone the radishes gone and the list goes on and on. The plastic was pretty tight so I never thought the water was going to puddle like that but it did. Oh well I guess live and learn. I guess I'll have to restart some of the plants again.

Hey c - at least you tried to help the plants out... Chances are the rain would have washed them away had you not tried to cover them!!

Thanks Kelly. At least my lettuce and my mesclum salad survived and also most of my beets. My second raised bed did better, all the plants survived, the plastic did not get quite as much water and the plants seem healthy.

I have a lot of plants to restart again in particular the broccoli but I am wondering which one to start whether the calabrese or a gypsy broccoli that twiggybuds sent me, I want to plant the one that takes less time to mature. Any ideas?

c - the leaf lettuces and such are pretty hardy. If you cut them they come back, so a little damage shouldn't hurt them... Glad some of your plants did survive. That rain can really come down hard and wreak havoc on little plants!

I think the Calabrese is about 48 days and the Gypsy about 58. Of course those are average days to maturity, but they're close enough you could plant some of both. If you want to save seeds plant the Calabrese as Gypsy is a hybrid and won't come true from seed.

Carmen I surely sympathize and hate that you have this disappointment. Many times I've seen plants laying down from rain and such bounce back so you might ought to wait a few days to see if they will straighten out.

Last year Calabrese was the only broccoli I planted and I think I set out in Oct or Nov. I know I was eating off it in January til late Feb. Nothing is ever as fast for me as the seed packets say. I grow them in 3 gallon pots so that may hold them back some. You have to have a few more plants of Calabrese to make a meal since the sprouts are small.

This year I've got Gypsy and a couple plants have started heading. I started it in mid-late August. I really think the heat has held it back. I just got my order from Evergreen Seeds a week ago and planted some Lucky Green which is supposed to be more heat tolerant but it hasn't germinated yet. Seems slow to me. I just found a few Packman seeds I got in a trade and will also start them.
So I'm not really experienced enough to give good info. Just plant something, maybe both.

Well, I just started both broccolies and also the broccoli Rabb along with the cabbage and Bock choi you sent me twiggy.

I also went outside to look at the damage again, out of the 8 plants of broccoli planted, I decided to take 2 very damaged ones and leave the rest, there were some broken branches and all but they might come back, also the broccoli rabb was the worst, so out of 4 plants I had to take out 2 but that's o.k. I am leaving everything else intact to see what will survive and what will not survive.

I really can't complain though I've been eating salad greens from my garden for the last 2 weeks and that's been great, I am now enjoying a homegrown salad as I am typing this.

Thank you for all the encouraging words, I guess it could have been a lot worst.

You have a great attitude carminator, and that's a big part of what it takes to be a gardener!!

Well thank you kelly, I am definetely learning a lot. Now if I can get my DH to build me a couple of more raise beds I'll be set for all this new new seddlings I am going to be starting.

lol - you'll talk him into it somehow... I always do!

Carminator1! So sorry about your loss. But, there's still plenty of time to sow new seeds. That's the beauty of winter sowing! Aside from what I put out in the eBuckets, I'm going to sow some cole crop seeds in containers (maybe 1-4 milk jugs), and germinate them OUTSIDE in their vessels until they're ready to go into an eBucket. I'm thinking that with our weather, I could wintersow now and and continue planting out all the way up to around mid-January, at least.

1. Sow seeds this weekend OUTSIDE in milk jugs
2. Germination in about 8-10 days
3. Let 'em grow outside for about 2 more weeks (to December 12th)
4. Transplant them to the eBuckets/raised beds
5. Grow them for the next 45-60 days in the cold/cool weather
6. Harvest by March 27th.

That's 107 days from December 12th to March 27th, and they've been outside the whole time! I'm going for it!

Thanks for that Calabrese info Kelly! Now I know which ones to plant, too!

I'll post a pic later of what I did ALL DAY Saturday. I was worn out, but my cabbages, broccoli, and cauliflowers were standing at attention and saluting the sun this morning!

Great, gymgirl, that is great info, that way you don't have to harden your plants.

By the way on another note I had so much arugula that I decided to make arugula pesto and this stuff is great, I am using it even as a spread on bread YUMMM!

Thought I would show you my new grow light system, I love it, and I am already putting it to good use.

Great Carminator1! What seeds are you going to grow under those lights?

Anybody ever thought about that humongous cold frame sitting outside your door? It's called a CAR! Everytime I get into it in the winter, I think, I gotta find a way to leave some seedlings on my dashboard during the day. Think about it. It's protected all around, no extraneous bugs crawling anywhere (at least not in mine...), there's a heat buildup factor that could serve the germination, and that sunshine pouring in through the window keeps the soil warm.

Comments? Are do I just have too much free time on my hands?

Ok, here's a progress report on Broccoli seedlings planted Sunday, November 8, 2009.

xposted on "5 gallon bucket" thread in Self Container Veggie Gardens.

This message was edited Nov 13, 2009 11:54 AM

Here's a cabbage update.

xposted on "5 gallon bucket" thread in Self Container Veggie Gardens.

This message was edited Nov 13, 2009 11:54 AM

Wow Gymgirl, nice homemade EB you got there, definetely your broccoli looks a lot better than mine, I am sure you'll be having some in no time.

I have started lot of seedlings, the problem is going to be where to put it all, for some reason my earthbox containers are not doing good, my last resourt is going to be to add some compost to the existing dirt I have on them, maybe the plants are just not getting enough nutrients, I am also starting to make compost tea so hopefuly this will also help.

I have started some more broccoli, some cauliflower, spinach mustard, Bock Choi, and kolrabi, also I just started yesterday 2 types of onions ( since onion seeds are only good for a year) I decided to plant them all.

Hopefully next month I'll have enough $ collected to have my DH build me another raise bed. I am still looking to see if I can find any nursery that will sell top soil by the truck load instead of buying bags at Homedepot or Lowes, i've heard this way is cheaper and you get better quality. I do have the compost almost ready so I only need the top soil.

c - is Mobile a large city? Maybe you have a farmer's market? I would ask those people maybe they know where to buy bulk?

It is pretty big, we do have a nice size flea market where they sell fruit trees and animals but as far as farmers market's I am not sure I am still to new to the area. I also went to craighlist to see if anybody would post anything but with no luck.

How is everybody doing, I thought I might post an update of my raise beds.

Things are definetely comming along, I keep eating my lettuces and mesclum salad and have not had to go to the store to buy salad greens for quite a while, so I guess I am saving $ there since we do eat a lot of salads.

Also I was wable to collect some bock choi leaves to make a stir fry the other day, flavor is O.K but I am looking for new recipes to cook it so if you have any in mind you like, please share.

I also tried some kale chips yesterday and they were out of this world, I definetely need to grow more kale since I am hooked on the chips.

I have been eating a lot of my spinach mustard, either in salads or cooked, I really love this veggie not only it is ready very quick about 30 days but I think is very versatile, so will definetely plant more of it.

Everything else is comming along, my beets are growing slowly but surely, sometimes I wonder if they will make a bulb at all.

Yesterday I tested my PH level, I have a little alkaline problem the meter said that my ph was about 8 so I have to make it a little more acidid, I think I added to much lime when I planted the veggies, any of you know how I could rectify this? I have some peat moss at hand so I was wondering if I could use it as a side dressing since I have things planted all over the raise beds. I really need to test my soil for other things as well but really don't want to have to send my soil to a lab since it would probably be a lot of $, any ideas on a good soil test kit that I could do at home?

Please if you have the time let us know how your veggie patch is doing and what you have been able to collect.

Hi carminator! Glad to see you reporting in and that your garden is doing well!

A couple of things...

This is my favorite recipe for bok choy... I usually add onions and fresh sliced mushrooms to it with the garlic or sautee them seperately in a little olive oil then add to the recipe when you add the garlic... It's very good!

http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/sauteed-bok-choy-and-broccoli

I have beets out the wazoo - lol. We grow them mainly for the greens as I don't care too much for the beets themselves. Beet greens are excellent. If you go to www.elise.com/recipes and search beet greens she has some excellent recipes.

Our soil here is highly alkaline and soil sulfur is recommended as an amendment. Peat is acidic, but I would not use the peat as a side dressing. The reason being is that if peat gets dry, it is very hard to resature it. If it is on top of your soil, it will form a crust that water will have a hard time to penetrate. The best way to use peat is to mix it really well with your soil and saturate the area to hydrate the peat. You don't want it sitting on the surface...

I have been harvesting beet greens, chard, several different lettuces, mustard greens and bok choy. Have thyme and oregano and dill going strong and my peppers are still producing. I have several tomato plants that were full of blooms and tomatoes and then we had a slight frost a couple nights last week. The eggplant bit the dust and the tomato plants sustained some frost damage even though they were covered but they are still alive. I did pick the green fruit before the frost just in case and will try to ripen it inside. The plants may or may not do anything now. Depends on how mild our winter is. After the frost we had 2 days and nights of heavy rain and crazy wind. Besides a few leaning plants everything appears to be ok. More rain for the weekend. We sure need it!

Thanks for reporting in. I look forward to hearing everyone's progress!!

Kelly

I'm still trying to figure out how you guys are EATING stuff, when I'm still trying to get stuff planted...my timing is sooooooooooooooooo way off, it's not even funny...

I am NOT having a good day...8--%

Although...I DO have 10 cabbages growing in my eBuckets. They survived the BIG snow of '09 here in Houston, and the leaves are about 8" today. They look great, and should start making heads in the next few weeks...

I STILL haven't planted my root crop seeds! Last year I planted them Thanksgiving weekend. I'm already 2 weeks behind last year's LATE schedule...but, I think I still have some winter left...

I think my eggplants gave up the final yield Friday. I pulled about 10 orange size fruits off before the BIG snow of '09.

Lost the three tomato plants that were 4ft. and just starting blooms. But, not to the BIG snow of '09. I think the fluctuating temps did em in...

Been preparing winter sowing vessels (gallon milk jugs from Starbuck's) so I can begin sowing next season's plant and veggie seeds, hopefully, on TIME for planting out come March 1st.

Gonna pull the cardboard off the raised beds and sow those root crop seeds this Saturday if the weather is agreeable...

Supposed to dip into the 30s tonight and 40s tomorrow morning. Gotta rush home to spread the sheets over the eBuckets again. But they worked really well against the BIG snow of '09, and my cabbages, broccoli and cauliflowers were saved.

Ok. That's my report.

I'm feeling a little better now....

L

Wonderful, great to see some posts!

Kelly thank you so much for the recipes I'll definetely try them, I also love broccoli, unfortunately my broccoli is not ready yet so I'll have to buy some from the store, but the recipe really looks good.

Thank you for telling me about the peat moss, I really did not know that it could harden up so much, I'll try the sulfur instead and see if I can get this soil to normal levels. I still have to buy a soil test kit to test what else I need to add to my soil before I plant my spring veggies.

Gymgirl, I feel your pain, sometimes is just looks like it just takes forever for the veggies to start popping up but I am sure very soon you'll have plenty to harvest, by the way did you plant any lettuces or greens, they tend to be one of the crops that is just a very fast grower at least for me, I have been eating fresh salads greens for over a month and really has saved me trips to the stores and some $ as well, arugula is another that I have plenty of and I really like it, you can also make arugula pesto for pasta, it is really good. My cabbages are tinny tiney, they are just small seedlings right now but hopefully in a month or so they'll get bigger, and Oh I just can't wait to try some of my broccoli but right now they are full of leaves and nothing else, patience is just a virtue that I do not possess unfortunately.

I am glad that your veggies did not do too bad considering the big snow of 09, we only got freezing rain here in Mobile and thank God with a little covering my veggies did not die, still I need to plan for a better covering system for my raise beds.

Localkelly, I wanted to share a you tube video that I found very interesting. The video is about a guy that has a veggie garden in an area with hardly any rain at all, he even says that they get watering restrictions all the time expecially in the summer. He shows you an innovative way to water your plants without having to use the regular faucet.

We obiously get tons of rain here in Mobile, in fact it is supposed to rain again today, we get to much rain if you ask me, but oh well.

here is the video and in case you don't get the specific video you just type " garden tips and tricks" and it should come up.
http://www.youtube.com/user/markhess#p/u/7/4DSNt-zL55Y

Thanks carminator! I'm at work and can't view youtube, so will mark this unread and check it out tonight when I get home;o)

OK - I found his page and bookmarked it. Got busy tonight and maybe won't get to watch it, but definitely will. Thanks again!

He recycles the air conditioner drip water. Says he gets about 5 gallons a day. Great idea, especially since the a/c runoff drains right near my garden area. Thanks for the link carminator.

Hiya McP - that is a good thing. I have a bucket under the pipe where the runoff drains. I use it to water my hanging pots or whatever else is in need. It does add up. I think the 5 gallons/day is about right, though sometimes I think it's more because if I forget to switch the bucket or use it it overflows...

When I saw this I thought it was a great idea, expecially in places where you don't get hardly any rain. Definetely check all his videos, he has a great idea on how to use homemade tomato cages to grow melons on tight spaces, i am definetely going to try his method.

Now any ideas on places where you get too much rain. It has been raining for almost a week non stop, boy I am so tired of it, I really hope my plants make it.

My temps have been up and down for the past week. Today's highs are in the 60s, but tonight's wind chill will be in the 30s. I've been covering and un-covering my eBuckets with sheets and a hugh plastic tarp (NOT touching the plants, of course...).

Actually, covering the eBuckets is a pretty easy task. I just pull the 4ft. garbage cans alonside and drape the sheets and then the tarp over them. It makes a tent. I've had some cabbage seedlings underneath a patio table covered with another sheet, and they're doing just fine. Seems that enough light gets through the sheets that they're looking better underneath that table than they have in 3 months!

STILL haven't managed to get any seeds into my two raised beds. Although, this past weekend I uncovered one bed, and raked through the top 6" to uncrust it (not much of a crust). Then I sprinkled Sluggo Plus on top, watered the bed to runoff, and covered the soil with a sheet of hardware cloth to keep the cats off. So far, so good. I'll do the same with bed #2 this weekend, and try to throw some seeds down.

Oh, and I did mark of square foot sections to guide me in my seed sowing. I have 30 sq. ft. of surface to plant in bed #1. And I should have 32 sq. ft. in bed #2, although #2 is in a more shaded location (best I could do under my circumstances...).

I'm trying to decide what veggies I want more of. Discovered the turnip seeds I ordered are the ones that produce big leaves (YUMMY!) but don't wanna crowd them out. Working on my planting scheme between these two beds and 6 earthboxes...

I think I have roughly 90 more days (from today) of cool to moderately cold weather left for growing in my Zone 9a...

Linda

Linda, I also have a hard time figuring out what to plant where, I keep drafting something on paper and then change it a buch of times. I have the companion planting book and I try to implement it to the way I plant things on my raise beds see if does make a difference. This thirsd raise bed that I'll be putting together hopefully this weekend is going to have onions, cabbage, kolrabi and maybe some lettuces as well, all suppose to be good companion planting.

I've also had a couple of freezes here in Mobile where I've had to cover my plants as well, it takes me a while to cover them and secure them to my raise bed, that is why I want to come with a better and easier system to cover my beds.

I also bough the farmers almanac book for this year and I want to implement it as well. Hopefully this will also help into having big and healthy plants as well.

I just decided to pull all my endive out of one of my squares and decided to place some lettuce seedlings that were getting prety big to be under the lights anymore. The endive is just a little too bitter for my taste, but I will probably cook it tonight with some garlic and onion see if this will make it taste less bitter.

I'm still eating from lettuce thinnings. I haven't ever gotten them to the point where I need to do the cut and come again. Linda couldn't that work for your leafy turnips? My first planting of Pak Choi is bolting. It's only a few plants and they held for a long time so I'm not devastated. I wonder if they'll be able to mature the seeds in the winter. The second planting is ready and I guess I need to plant some more. My kohlrabi is swelling up but the largest is less diameter than a tennis ball. How big does it get? I had to put my first planting of cauliflower and broccoli in the freezer because it all got ready at the same time and absolutely wouldn't hold its' quality. The second plantings are coming along but no heads showing. I've got cabbage and more broccoli seedlings to plant if it will ever quit raining. The record has already been broken for rain in December and it's only the 15th. It's better than snow and ice so I shouldn't complain too much.

I'm pleased with the cole crops so far but feel like I'm slacking because I have empty space. In a month or so it will be time for planting potatoes. I just got a sack of red ones to sprout for seed.

I already gave myself a Christmas present, a heat mat and domed tray. Right after New Years it will be time to start tomatoes.

I haven't covered anything so far and even the smallest babies are taking the cold well. I think the coldest it has been is around freezing but only for an hour or so. The grass is still green and it hasn't killed my peppers. Low 30s are predicted this week so that will probably get them.