HIGEZAKI (beard flower)

the weather here has been wet all summer... however, we had a whole night without rain so i managed to get some pics.... unfortunately the permanent marker i used to mark the labels wasn't very permanent!
so i can only guess as to what they are...

#2

#3 HIGE are varieties of Ipomoea purpurea...

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11

#12

side view of #8

A very beautiful rainbow of higes, Colin - perchance, might the Indigo Feathers I sent you be among them? Although I controlled pollination on what I sent you, the parent generation was not all true, so I've been wondering how true this generation - or what any variations - might be.

Karen

yes Karen indigo feathers is in there somewhere.... i think it's #9... but could be #11 although i think that one(#11) was called Split Blue from a Canadian supplier... some of them look very similar to each other in colour...

Oh Colin first I must say beautiful photography!! And of course beautiful flowers. I think # 2 is my favorite!

Thanks, Colin

luvs - have to admit - me too

I enjoyed them all, but in particular the complexity of colours in #1 is quite remarkable.

Beautiful blooms Colin, I like #1 too!!

Hi Colin! So good to see you posting!

OH MY GOODNESS! They are ALL outstanding higes! WOW!

Everyone of them is impressive, especially #1! But I am also quite fond of #10. :-) :-)

Is #4 and #7 from the same vine or are these two different cultivars? One looks like a hot pink and the other more of a reddish pink?

Very, very nice! And ... your photography is awesome!!!!

thanks everyone :-) ...
karen i have two types going from your seeds... aomurasakihigeshibori(purple flaked hige) #3 ? and indigo feathers #9 or #11 ?

i also planted
sorahigezaki #1 ? (bluebeardflower)
momohigezaki #7 or #12 ? (pinkbeardflower)
akahigezaki #4 ? (redbeardflower)
pale pink hige #8
and split blue from Semences Solana... but i havent seen a plain split flower without a beard yet....
#5 i think is jamie lynn hige...
#2 i think is on the same vines(from same seeds) as #3


next year i'm planting them apart :-s and using better labels.... they are producing quite a lot of seed pods(they must be rain pollinated LOL) i shall offer them as a mix in trades
pic shows #1 (sorahigezaki) later in the day... for Joseph....

and #1 earlier in the day... higes stay open all day for me... but then they don't get much sun here.... (it's been totally gorgeous here today mind)
i just love how it changes from blue on blue to a lovely fushia on blue color....

becky... yes #4 and #7 are different vines... #12 and #7 could possibly be from the same seeds tho' but the colors, style/size of bloom and leaf color are very different to the eye...(natural variation maybe)

becky #1 and #10 are from same seeds... #10 hadn't had so much sun is all....

pic is same as #2

on another note... does anyone know how to pronounce HIGE? i found a website somewhere where a small sound clip made it sound like "hiya" but havent been able to find anyother info.... i've been pronouncing it as heige as in seige
but i think thats wrong :-s

Would it be a 2 syllable word, something like hee-geh?

Colin;

I love the colour of number 6; if it was only a single!

We have been battling the rain here in the West Midlands for how long? errrr 2 months?

I think we can count the sunny days on one hand!

What's the mixture going to be called "Noah's Ark"?

How long doe these stay open is it just the one day?

R

Joseph... actually hee-ye is how i heard it not hi-ya... but i'm sure the g didn't sound hard as in get... ?


R... did we have sunshine two months ago?? i must have blinked or something... lol

they stay open a couple of days but they look like drowned rats by then....lol

nils just won't grow outside here... tricolors don't do very well either... so i'm sticking to purpureas which seem to flower away regardless....

Noah's Ark Mix? mmmm... Soggy Budgie is more descriptive... how about Rain Dance :-)

Thunder and lightening?

Colin - I just love this blue: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=6934668 Which I. purpurea cultivar do you think this hige originated from? I really like it!

Well, I must admit ... if you grow I. purpureas ... it's neat to grow these feathered ones and see how they all turn out. They are so pretty! I call them the "Fancy" I. purpureas. :-)

LOL! about the name for a mix packet of seeds of all of these! They DO look like wet budgies! LOL! "Soggy Budgie" - I was laughing and laughing about THAT name! You and RSM are too funny!

I, too, was pronouncing it "heige as in seige"!

I am sorry the I. nils don't grow well for you there. Can you grow plants indoors?

Colin , in your collection , the Kniola Black Hige is missing . Here is mine, I hope an exchange with you the Sydney blue Hige or an other .

Becky... i have not seen an equivalent single version of the blue hige.... the hige element itself seems to alter any spotting on the petals, seemingly spreading it out across the limb... this is most easily seen in pictures of the cultivar Gypsy Bride, which seems to be a HIGE version of Milky Way... note the difference in the spread of the spotting between the two.

Dany infers that he thinks it's a Hige version of Sydney(=Caprice/blue danube/light blue star/decapo light blue) but these varieties have light seeds and the variety in question had dark seeds. also the light seeded element seems to remove the spotting in some way leaving the fushia star pattern and a diluted limb colour...

i think it is another type of dilute bluish-purple(grandpa otts/ kniolas.../purple haze/carmen etc.) as these varieties lose the spotting as the day goes on exposing the fushia star pattern that lies underneath...

i have grown and flowered a number of I purpurea cultivars, and only taking into account the colour and patterns of the blooms... there seems to be very few major genetic elements at play... as there seems to be a greater variation within cultivars than there is between them..... i think it would be interesting to sort them out...

Dany... yes i would love to trade some of the Blue HIGE for another strain of HIGE...

about naming a mix.... joking aside... I purpurea open pollinated HIGE mixed is how i will label them...

i'm also going to try bagging the blooms on the blue HIGE for those who request them.

there are some excellent pics in this thread
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1018314/
i especially like the variations found in the Joyce Cobb series if you look at the pics of the Terresa lookie likey's which seem to me to be the combined effect of the Milky Way genetic element and the Joyce Cobb genetic element you can see how the Joyce Cobb gene alters the spotting because the Milky Way gene removes the limb colour...

i would like to see the combined effect of Joyce Cobb and Sydney... as i think this would show what effect the Joyce Cobb genetic element does to the fushia star element and the limb colour without the spotting getting in the way.... i think i losing myself here...

Colin - I wondered about the blue because I grew Joyce Cobb 3 years ago and they were blue blooms! It's the only blue I. purpurea that I have ever grown: http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/i/36532/

So I wondered if your blue hige was from JC. I would love to trade you seeds for some of your #1 and #10. I really love BOTH of those!

Some that I do not see here is the Pink Flaked and the Purple Flaked higes.
Purple Flaked regular shaped bloom - http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/i/56576/
See my photo of Pink Flake normal shaped bloom attached to this post.

I have seeds for the regular bloom vines of the Flakes. Perhaps these vines could be crossed with any of these higes (maybe the white) to get higes for those cultivars, too? I also have seeds for something that I call Pink Triple Feathers: http://davesgarden.com/community/blogs/i/38648/

And I am currently growing out both the Pink Flaked and the Purple Flaked together to try to cross those two to get a new Pink AND Purple Flaked I. purpurea that has all those colors on one bloom, That would also make an interesting hige! :-)

This message was edited Aug 12, 2009 8:51 AM

Hi Becky... i think you might have something there.. it could be a HIGE Joyce Cobb... i do not have any Joyce Cobb on the go this year for comparison... maybe the vine will throw a single flower that i could compare with your pic.... i will trade you some of my bagged blue HIGE no probs.... :-)

i find it hard to tell the difference(if there is any) between the bluish-purple(aomurasaki) and the plain purple(murasaki) from pictures i also personally find it hard to descibe colours anyway.... and as i only started growing ipomoea this year i have no experience of them in the flesh as it where... but i think it should be possible to produce a red/pink/raspberry flaked HIGE....

although having said that.... these differences(mutations) are mostly caused(from what i have read) by transposable elements.... and if these transposable elements reside in/on the same genes as each other they might be passed on in a seemingly allelic fashion... that is to say you can either have one or the other breeding true but the combination will not... in a similar fashion to siamese/tonkinese/burmese cats.... untill that is they recombine on the same gene... then they would be passed on together and would act like a seperate and single genetic element/mutation(untill they uncombine of course) in a similar fashion to ino/lacewing/cinanamon genetics in cagebirds...

so... before i get lost again... hypothetically speeking if the element for pink/red/raspberry is caused by a transposon on the same gene as the transposon for HIGE resides... a simple cross would not give a true breeding red/pink/raspberry flaked HIGE untill these two elements recombine

it is for this reason that we do not have Flying Saucers in the colour of Wedding Bells in I tricolors... the elements that create these variations(so i have read) reside on the same gene and have not as yet recombined to give us this new true breeding combination... from what i can gather the Pearly Gates and Blue Star elements in I tricolor are also on the same gene... so the colour breeding potential in i tricolors is limited to epistatic(tonkinese) non true breeding types untill the recombination(lacewing) comes along.... (were talking fields and fields of growouts and a sharp eye here!!)

i think crossing single flowered pink/red/rasberry flaked with the allready exsiting bluish-purple flaked HIGE and then selfing the resulting vines would give the best chances of producing red/pink/raspberry HIGEs.... as crossing with the white type HIGEs will most likely, from what i have read and depending on the character of the white element being used, would lead to false pinks that would be harder to stabilise through selection...

i know it is silly to apply animal genetics to plants as the nature of transposable elements are less predictable... but as i see it, it doesn't need to be that predictable....

Colin - I think I. tricolor are harder to cross. But my experience is that I. pupureas are like rabbits ... they cross and produce all kinds of crazy blooms on their vines! LOL! I really think crossing any hige with any typical bloom will get you both and an interesting mix of colors and patterns as well. And like others, go for it, and then "selectively" cross and tag certain blooms, and grow those out to see if you can produce a stable new cultivar.

One thing that I have learned about MGs and crossing ... nothing has been predictable. I have all kinds of theories of what I will get if I cross this with that ... but my actual experience is that the possibilities are usually surprising and unexpected. I think using selective blooms would get you closer to what you want than just randomly crossing one vine with another. But I haven't been doing it long enough to really form any scientific conclusions!

So ... I don't take it all too seriously. Instead, I just enjoy whatever I get with crosses and see if I can isolate certain blooms for future grow-outs to possibly stabilize what is desirable to me. :-)


This message was edited Aug 12, 2009 11:13 AM

i agree Becky the best idea is to cross or self selected blooms and keep on selecting by eye... especially as i've recently been reading about horizontal transfer of what could loosely be called genetic elements... through grafting and pollen transmission etc. as well as activating presently inactive transposable elements and/or causing transposable elements to move positions along the genome by stressing plants with various mutagens or even just different growing conditions... it gets too weird even for me!!

it's no wonder that so many different things change in MG blooms... it's just wonderous :-)

my post are my excited ramblings about what makes me tick about MGs, my thoughts and ideas and are not meant to imply any need for others to do the same... so i can only reiterate what Becky says above.... don't take it too seriously, just enjoy whatever you do :-) but don't be afraid of indulging your whims if you get them... 'cos you never know and why not?

pic shows single flowered blue flower on another vine but very close in colour

Colin is a phenomenal grower of ipomoea purpurea, taking into account the severe weather challenges we have had it's amazing what he is producing and he should be applauded and he has done all of this on his own.

We live about 3 miles apart and what I have produced is abysmal compared to Colin.

Hopefully Colin and I can agree that Ipomoea purpurea or a Ipomoea purpurea x nil hybrid is the way forward for a cool coastal mari-time climate.

Colin (hope you don't mind) is a inspirational mad scientist; I have not seen these until here so I am very suprised; but I think he has a few things we have not seen yet from his Colin's secret laboratory.

Soggy Budgie is funny and descriptive! Not as funny though as the thoughts of the rabbit from Alice in Wonderland dragging around a bag of seaweed at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party!



This message was edited Aug 12, 2009 8:29 PM

ceej1963
you have some awesome blooms,i love #1 also like becky
becky has some awesome ones she sent me some seeds of her willow and it is soooooooooo cool i am trying to get some seeds from it to share back with her,
if you decide to do anytrading i would love to trade you for some of your seeds,what are you looking for? plmk if interested
btw are you going to be joining the group swap that becky has started? i hope so and i hope to have some of the willow seeds by then to share with everyone it is a cool bloom

Melisa - I am so glad that you are thoroughly enjoying the Blue Asagao Willow vine and unusual blooms! I hope you are able to cross pollinate that vine with a typical Blue Willow vine to get lots of seeds! Good luck and I look forward to seeing more of your bloom photos!

Collin - Your last posted photo does look very similiar to the Blue Hige you are growing! Such a nice color of blue! I really like it a lot! :-)

becky
i cant get over how many buds is on this vine right now but the other vine dont have any buds yet so i am worried about not being able to pollinate it because no ther blooms yet,should i try to bloom bust it lol and see if that would help it to get flowers fast? please help lol because i want to really share this with you and let you see what youre missing out on heheheh
the flower reminds me of my mom and how i glow when i see it bloom

Yep! Use Bloom Booster on the younger vine! It should help! :-) I always smile when I see roses. My mother's favorite were yellow roses. I may try to grow a yellow rose bush in her memory sometime next year. :-)