Best setting for birds

I posted this on the photos forum but didn't get much response.

I've tried Intelligent ISO but all I get are blurry pictures. Shutter Priority is ok but by the time I adjust it for light, etc, the bird is long gone.

Any ideas?

From what I have researched you are using the Panasonic Lumix point and shoot camera which is a fine camera. I use a digital SLR so I'm not familiar with your camera's settings. However, a lot of factors can come into play. I doubt that your ISO setting is the real culprit for blurry pictures. I try to be one step ahead of the subject and its surroundings. Most of the time, I use Manual settings and adjust the ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture and White Balance to closely fit the lighting and the subject. If you can get close, you can enhance the photo with your photo editing software.

Blurry photos are usually caused by the subject not being in focus, movement of the subject or movement of the camera. I seldom shoot off-hand with a shutter speed under 1/500 sec., preferably 1/800 sec. or faster. If you shoot at lower shutter speeds, you need a tripod. High ISO settings on most cameras will produce considerable noise. Many professional photographers use Aperture priority quite a bit. But, if you are planning to photograph a moving subject you know that you definitely need a faster shutter speed to stop the action. If you go from a sunny, out in the open location into a forest or closed in area, you need to raise your ISO settings so that you will have adequate shutter speed to avoid blurred photos. You change your settings BEFORE you enter the woods. The same is true in early morning or late evening shots.

Birds don't sit still very long, if at all, away from a bird feeder. One cannot wait for the bird to show-up and then adjust the settings. You have to give it your best guess before they arrive. But, if the bird sits still, take a few photos at different settings. If it was easy, everyone would produce professional type photos. You just have to keep experimenting (when it doesn't really matter).

Hope this helps a little. I'm still learning myself. In your post you stated that your shutter speed was OK. What was your shutter speed and aperture setting, in this instance ?

I've been using Intelligent ISO. Just checked and the shutter speed is 1/1300. Shutter Priority is awkward...ok but awkward. I seem to have to keep adjusting it or I get super bright or super dark photos.

Here is a Robin pic I took his evening. Intelligent ISO. I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around settings, hoping there is an easy fix, one perfect setting to use for anything. Or maybe I'm just expecting too much from my camera.

It's nothing wrong with high expectations because that leads one towards perfection. Each camera and lens does, however, have individual limitations. Does more expensive equipment mean better results. Not always. But there is a reason why professional photographers have expensive equipment.

Many inexpensive cameras are over marketed as to their capabilities. I had to look up what Intelligent ISO really means. It sounds goods and perhaps works but it is not the panacea to guaranteeing good photos. There are a lot of other factors.

The lighting with your Robin photo looks okay. If I were critiquing the photo, I would first ask you (1) how far away were you from the Robin ? (2) What was your zoom setting, i.e. 12x, 20x, etc. ? (3) Did you use a tripod ?

We all want more but often the subject is out of range for the equipment that one is using. It's like blowing up even a close photo that you have taken. Eventually, it become blurry. It may sound silly but that is why some photographers use a blind .... so they can get real close to their subject. There is no way that these inexpensive point and shoot cameras that tout 20X+ zoom lens take good photos of a bird (which is small) that is any distance away from the photographer. If that were the case, photographers would not be spending $$$$ on more expensive equipment.

I have expensive equipment but it too has its limitations ..... based on my expectations. The key is understanding those limitations.

I had to look up Intelligent ISO when I saw the setting on the camera too. I liked that it auto adjusted the light. I also liked that it would/should sense if the subject is moving and adjust for that. The camera has image stability for shaky hands and I figured the two combined would be perfect. Maybe it isn't as intelligent as it thinks it is...

That Robin was maybe 25 feet away, full 12X zoom, that pic. is not cropped (no point, too blurry). No tripod, I leaned against a tree, I don't own a tripod.

I'm finding birds frustrating. The camera, as a rule, takes beautiful, crisp photos. Flowers are perfect, I can stop a drip of water mid drip, action shots of cats and dogs is awesome. But those things don't take off into the next county after the first click.

I'd love to be able to get good, crisp shots of birds too.

This Sparrow I took yesterday as well (lots of birds in my yard at any given time to practice on). He was only maybe 10 feet away, full 12X zoom. Still lacking something. At 10 feet, with the zoom, he should be clearer, no?

Threegardeners, having a look at the grass around the bird, it's in focus, as is most of the body and tail of the bird. It's mainly the head which isn't and I think that's because the head of the bird was in motion when you took the picture, which means the shutter speed is too slow for the action. Try increasing the shutter speed. I rarely use anything less than 1250 sec and lighting is critical. It's compromise all the way. Increase the shutter speed to freeze the motion and you'll have to increase the ISO and/or aperture to compensate for the shutter speed. Don't be disheartened. Photographing birds is an exercise in patience. Persist, because when you do get a good shot, it's worth all the effort of waiting.

I have the shutter setting on 1/1300, wouldn't it stay at that when I switch the camera over to Intelligent ISO? or does the Int. ISO setting cancel out what my shutter setting is? Maybe I'm not realizing what these things do to each other...

I'm not familiar with intelligent ISO, but I guess that may be a possibility, that one cancels the other. Maybe try shooting moving leaves with various settings and see what results you get.

I would assume Intelligent ISO is similar to an AUTO setting...in which case the camera evaluates and sets itself according to what it thinks are the best settings overriding any setting you have made on other modes. I use shutter priority on my point and shoot. Most of the time it works pretty fair.

I am still wishing for the camera that gets every shot! LOL

I've got three suggestions for your bird photos.

(1) Try setting the metering mode to "Center Weighted". This will help insure the exposure is on the bird, not its surroundings. Of course, put the bird in the center of the frame when you shoot the photo.

(2) Set the Auto Focus Mode to "1-Area-Focusing". If you use the default "9-area-focusing", the camera will focus on whatever object is closest to you, which is often a tree branch, blade or grass, etc. instead of the bird. With the "1-Area-Focusing" setting, the camera will focus on the object that is in the center of the picture.

(3) If you still can't get good pictures using the autofocus mode, try using the camera's manual focus mode.

Good Luck
Jane

ty Jane, I'll try those settings. I vaguely remember reading about those when I first got the camera but of course never thought of again, I'll go in and change them...they probably are still on the default modes.(where IS that operational manual book again...)
Manual focus mode is out of the question. I need new glasses so bad I can't focus myself, never mind a camera. LOL

Leanne, looks like your ISO was actually only 160. If you switched that to something higher, as Margaret suggested, you can increase shutter speed.

According to the specs for your camera, you should be able to go as high as 1/2000 of a second. That's pretty good. Maybe mess around a bit with manual and shutter priority settings (or others), and not the intelligent ISO since that's not happening for you.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0701/07013106panasonicfz8.asp

Having said all this, I do have to agree with Linth that sometimes you just have to be really close to get anything decent. At least that is my experience especially with with my Point and Shoot, but sometimes even with my DSLR at 300mm.

WOW! You got all of that info from a photo?? technology is cool!

yes I did. mwhahahaha. I'm an evil stalker.

LOL

Mrs. Ed, in addition to the EXIF data that you provided (on the Sparrow photo), my program shows a shutter speed of 1/30 sec. In addition, the Robin photo had a shutter speed of 1/80 sec., aperture of f/3.3 and an ISO of 100.

This tells me that the shutter speed is too slow without a tripod. I would try a few photos (with good light) using manual settings or shutter speed priority as Mrs. Ed suggested. Start with an ISO of 400 and a shutter speed of at least 1/800 sec.

cool linth! you know, I look at exif all the time to see what settings people are using. then I can experiment.

ok then, the intelligent ISO isn't working. I took this photo using Simple Mode. Can you all use your magic and see what this one says??

ISO is still only at 100, which won't allow you to up the shutter speed.

The only way I can up the shutter speed (that I know of) is to use the shutter priority mode. Otherwise it doesn't seem to stay put. I just put it to shutter priority and it still says 1/1300.

The EXIF data on the Canada Goose states: ISO 100, Shutter Speed 1/160 sec and aperture f4.0.

Linth & Marna,

I'm just curious ... What program(s) do you use to see the EXIF data?

I use Photoshop.

But…
you can often view it with your system software (Windows XP or MAC). Right click on the image and see what you can find under properties.

I think there are also other viewers, such as…

http://www.rockitsoftware.com/software/pictureviewer/
http://www.snapfiles.com/get/exifreader.html


longer list here:
http://www.versiontracker.com/php/qs.php?mode=basic&action=search&str=exif+viewer&srchArea=all&submit=Go

I used "Photo Explosion Deluxe" (photo editing software) to view the EXIF data. As Mrs. Ed stated earlier, I too look at the EXIF data of photos that I consider really good. It gives you some idea as to what your settings need to be in order to get a photo like theirs. Some photos may not display the data if they have been modified extensively. At least that has been my experience.

threegardeners, you earlier stated "I just put it to shutter priority and it still says 1/1300. I don't understand that because when you put your camera on shutter priority, you can set the shutter speed at your preferred speed. You should be able to select a number of different shutter speeds. If you can't find your manual, take the camera to a local photo shop or ask a friend to assist you.

To be honest, I seldom, if ever, put my camera on automatic because I have never been satisfied letting the camera select the settings. The results always came up short of my expectations.

I mentioned that because I thought setting the shutter speed to a setting it would stay there, even if I changed to a different mode. I now know that it doesn't.

As everyone has already said, you need a fast shutter speed in order to freeze the bird's motion; but at the same time, you need to make sure that your aperture value is high enough to get the entire bird (or at least most of it) in focus.

The shutter speed and aperture work together to give you a properly exposed picture. As you increase the shutter speed, the aperture has to open wider (a lower F/# setting) in order to let in enough light. This in turn decreases the depth of field (e.g. the amount of photo's foreground and background that are in focus.) Unless the lighting is just perfect, it's not uncommon to have one part of the bird in focus and another part slightly out of focus. Because of this, always focus on the bird's eye. If the eye is out of focus, the whole picture will look out of focus. But if the eye is in well focused, you can get away with the tail feathers being slightly blurry.

Also, increasing the ISO setting will make the camera more sensitive to the available light; hence, you can use a faster shutter speed and narrower aperture opening (e.g. a higher F/# for greater depth of field). Just remember the higher the ISO is set, the grainier your pictures will be. For shady areas, try manually setting the ISO to either 400 or 800 and see how the pictures turn out. Then, try raising the ISO higher and see how far you can push it before your pictures become unacceptably grainy. Even though the Lumix is capable of using higher ISO settings, I find my pictures to be too grainy if I go above ISO 800.

As for the Intelligent ISO setting, what it does is allow the camera override your selected the ISO and shutter speed settings in order to give you a "blur-free picture". Obviously, it's not working for you, so I'd suggest turning it off and experimenting with the manual settings. This is probably also the reason why the Exif data for your pictures shows different settings than what you thought you were using.

I just downloaded one of the Exif reader programs that Mrs. Ed suggested (http://www.snapfiles.com/get/exifreader.html) and it gives you all of the information about the camera settings that were used to shoot a particular photo. You might want to download the program and use it to check which settings were used for some of your crisp flower, cat and dog pictures. This would give you an idea of the settings to try for your bird pictures.

Last thing, ever zoom lens has what is called a "sweet spot". This is the zoom position at which the lens takes its best pictures. With my 18x Lumix FZ28 camera, I find the picture come out a bit too soft at full zoom. If I back the zoom off just a bit, my pictures come out much sharper looking.

With all of this advice you're getting, I'm anxiously anticipating seeing some magazine cover quality bird pictures from you in the near future.

Best of luck!

Nicely said Jane.

I'm also wondering about the quality of the Image Stabilization and Noise reduction features on that camera. Not having one myself, I can't comment. But I suppose it's worth looking into anyway.

Has anyone seen this page on photographing birds on the Cornell site? There is a nice video on the lower left hand side.

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1109

Marna,

I think image stabilization does help. I frequently carry both my Canon SLR and my Lumix camera with me. There have been a number of times when I couldn't get a good shot with my SLR because the lighting was too low. (I just couldn't set a fast enough shutter speed to prevent a blurry picture.) At the same time, I could frequently get a decent shot with my Lumix. The image stabilizer is suppose to give you something like the equivalent of two F/stops compensation, which it turn would allow for a faster shutter speed. That could be the reason why I could get a picture with the Lumix; but not my SLR. Another factor that could account for this is the difference in maximum lens aperture between the two camera lenses.

Another feature that I like about my Lumix is that is has movie mode, which my SLR doesn't. The movie quality is actually pretty good. And, with the newer Lumix models you can even zoom in and out while filming; but there is often a bit a focusing lag when you use the zoom.

Jane

Jane, that's great information. Leeanne, I suppose you can test out the image stabilization and see if that helps.