Arid Climate Bale Gardens

Hey, you guys have given me the bale gardening bug! I hope bale gardeners in arid climates can post to this thread to tell us what works and what doesn't in desert bale gardening. Here's my tiny experiment that hopefully will yield some good info on arid climate bale gardening - even if it doesn't yield any fruit!

List of money blown so far:

Cardboard underneath tarp - free (saved boxes) also can get free from walmart at night when they're stocking
8 straw bales - san tan feed $6 each = $48
10x20 tarp 10 mil thick - walmart $20 on sale
25 24" wood stakes - lowes $7 (should have made my own but my garage junk has eaten my table saw)
2 small bags natues way composted mulch - walmart $2 each = $4 (NPK not specified)
40lbs urea 46-0-0 - higley feed $15
4 bags kellogg patio mix - Lowes $5 each = $20 (to go in the transplant holes and for direct seeding - not on bales yet)
Polyethylene Tarp Repair Tape-Silver - ITEM 46154-0VGA $2.99 Harbor Freight (to put on the tarp before cutting future vents or X's for planting
103 Piece 1/2" Grommet Installation Kit - 30037-0VGA $2.49 Harbor Freight (might come in handy)

Results up to Day 6 to come in a minute...

This message was edited Apr 14, 2009 10:24 PM

Oh ya, sorry for the unfortunate screen name! My name is Vince.

Day 1 April 9 - No noticeable bale heat of course
Nothing underneath, bales strings to the ground, mulch on top (just because I had it and didn’t have the urea yet), soaked with hose

Day 2 April 10 - No noticeable bale heat
Nothing underneath, rain soaked (yes it actually rained in the Phoenix area the day after I got bales - miracle of miracles),

Day 3 April 11 - No noticeable bale heat
laid down cardboard, then tarp, then bales (still strings to the ground), added stakes (had to soak the ground to get the stakes in b/c of the caliche) then soaked with 1 cup urea/bale (I know that's double the recommended dose - was a mistake), tarp is preventing all runoff under bales and preventing most evaporation over - except for a 6" air gap on one long side - the tarp just wasn't wide enough. A 13" x 20" tarp would have been perfect for these 8 bales.

Day 4 April 12 - Bales noticeably warm!
Soaked with 1 cup urea/bale (continuing the mistaken double amount b/c it seems to be working and since I'm already late in the Phoenix summer gardening game I don't want to stop a good thing), added a spare blue tarp to close the 6" air gap and prevent more evaporation. Some air still gets in, but not a lot. No air at all would not let the bacteria live, right?

Day 5 April 13 - 4:30pm air temp 81F, bale temps ranging from 116 to 148.9! Now that's cookin’!
Small clouds of manure-type flies surrounding bales. Accidentally left tarp off after measuring temps, and bales seemed to cool down, so I did another cup/bale of urea and a soak to get them restarted. A desert rat was hiding in my blue tarp that’s covering the 6” gap and lying mostly on the ground! Must have smelled the straw or come for the water stuck in the creases of the blue tarp? Any thoughts of best way to get rid of it without a cat or dog? I suggest keeping the tarps entirely on the cardboard and bales and not letting them be on the ground where critters can hide in them. I need to put some dirt around the sides of the bales so I can see if he’s burrowing under or not. Anyway, I gave chase - he hid under one of my junk piles; the nerve! The wife was right! Those piles are a nuisance!

Day 6 April 14 - 5:30pm air temp 82F, bale temps ranging from 113 to 147!
Respirator worked great to keep the tremendous urea smell from almost knocking me over like yesterday. I was too tired to add more urea and water, so we'll see if they're still cooking tomorrow. Alot of wind has come up so that may dry them out through the small areas that allow air in on the ends.

This message was edited Apr 14, 2009 10:19 PM

Very scientific, Vince! And get a cat or a roof rat trap.

Rene

Vince: hey, fella, you're a natural-born bale gardening pro! :-)

Welcome, aboard.

That's some set up.

Always amazed at how different the gardening environments are throughout the good ole US of A.

Welcome Vince! Our Group is growing and all the new stories and updates are really interesting, as well as enlightening. I am learning so much here! Ive learned there is never a dumb question, and there seems to always be someone here to help out with any question Asked!
Lynn aka Eufaula

Wow Vince,
That is a great setup. I await further news with baited breath.
TTTFN, KK.

Day 7 April 15 – 5:30pm air temp 60F (yes, it’s really cooled off and gotten windy), bale temps ranging from 118 to 136. No urea and no water yesterday, no problem! There was plenty of urea in there and the tarps kept the water in. Oh no, a tale-tale mound of dirt near the bales! I think my desert rat has found a new home somewhere between the dirt, cardboard, tarp and bales. I’m crossing my fingers that he doesn’t eat through my tarp!!! I gave the bales a good soak. Why the funky angle of the bale row you ask? Well, George Brookbank in Desert Gardening – HIGHLY RECOMMENDED – suggests running rows North and South so you can shade them on the West, if you decide to shade them, so I’m giving it a shot.



This message was edited Apr 16, 2009 8:47 PM

Day 8 April 16 – 6:00pm air temp 63F (still cool but not so windy), bale temps from 112 to 131. I hope they cool off and soak up all that urea soon so I can plant! Decided to cut the apron strings so to speak. The reason is that I’m going to be using a desert planting method of spacing my tomatoes and other veggies by only 12 inches (to retain extra humidity and create lower temps at the base of the plants) and I’ll miss out on a lot of precious planting room if I leave the gaps between the bales. The end stakes may need some reinforcement at some point but the bales didn’t exactly try to burst out when I cut the strings so I guess we’ll see. I haven't ruffled them up yet to really fill in the gaps - I'm just letting them settle. Oh ya, picked up a rat trap and slathered it up with peanut butter (Day 7's pic was actually from today). I'll keep you posted on the little critter. Gave the bales an extra good soak before and after cutting the strings. I don’t think I’ll open the “lid” on these bales to obsess over them for a couple of days :)).

You know, I think the really ideal setup would be one large plastic bin that fit under the bales, maybe with a drain plug just in case you got overloaded with water. Lonejack suggested a childrens swimming pool. Even individual plastic bins might be good. They actually have some at Lowes that are almost the right size (for mixing concrete), but at $13 each, that's just too much. They couldn't be chewed through though, so you'd never be worrying about your precious runoff running, well, you know. Of course I toyed with building a wooden box and lining it with a tarp, but the bales seem to vary in size from 36" to 46" long, so they might not fill up a box that was built to accommodate 2 rows of 4 bales @ 46" long. In fact, they might be 40" short of filling it up if they're all 36"! I guess that wouldn't really matter. Any thoughts? Oh, for complete dimensions, strings to the ground, my bales are 14" tall, 23" deep/wide and 36"-46" long.

Vince: my squash are doing great. With the heat coming next week, I will sink my melons. Here we go . . . . . . Good luck to us!

2ndChance: I'm so jealous! I don't have a thing in the ground yet. I hope to get the drip system in the bales today and plant a few things on Monday. I guess we'll see if this cool spell has bought me any time!

BTW, ever used a rat trap outdoors here in AZ? The package suggests peanut butter as the bait but the little guy hasn't gone for that at all. What do desert rats like?

Day 9 April 17 – Didn’t mess with temp readings but there is some more dirt mounding coming up from under the bales. The trap remains unsprung :(

Day 10 April 18 - 2pm air temp 80’s, bale temps from 115 to 140. Wow, will these bales ever cool off? Gave a super good soak to hopefully wash some of that urea down and left the cover off. Saw online that some people are using a herring-based dog snack in their rat traps. Tuna fish is probably the closest thing I’ve got so I scraped out the peanut butter and added some tuna fish.

Sorry - I have cats, thus, no rats.

Australia has been having some luck with what they call wicking beds in dry climates. You may want to check them out, also.

Vince , well , how are the bales going ? How about an update ? digger

Well, someone asked, so here's my watering setup.

Let me preface this by saying that when I just got back from vacation, I found that one of the flag emitters had popped off, allowing most of the pressure to fly out through the 1/4" tube it was connected to, and almost fried the plants that weren't getting pressure any more.

Also, I haven't been real pleased with the leaks that appear around almost every barb that is inserted in the to 1/2" tubing (no matter how small the inital puncture was). I'm wondering if just drilling some tiny holes in 1/2" pvc would be just as good or better than this setup. At least I wouldn't have to worry about any ends popping off or little leaks. Any thoughts?

Anyway, here's what I'm using.

Timer - Walmart $23
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Timers/02/01/19/671/

Timer Wire to valves
Lowes

I tied into the 3/4" pvc that was going to the existing house sprinkler system and connected it to this valve manifold

3 Valve Heavy Duty Preassembled Manifold
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Valves/02/10/01/301/

3/4" to 1/2" pvc connector

1/2" pvc pipe

1/2" slip to male hose connection - $5 at true value hardware

3-in-1 Drip Faucet Adapter
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Manifolds%20and%20Adapters/03/22/22/303/

1/2" black orbit tubing (like this link but was orbit brand)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=16285-1029-MLT-72&lpage=none

1/2" (.700) Drip Lock Tee
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Tools%20and%20Accessories/03/22/08/2079/

more 1/2" black orbit tubing (like this link but was orbit brand)
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=16285-1029-MLT-72&lpage=none

1/4" Barb Coupling
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Tools%20and%20Accessories/03/22/01/926/

1/4" black orbit tubing

4 GPH Flag Dripper
http://www.orbitirrigation.com/products/Sprinklers/03/13/22/1005/

Oh ya, the rat was finally taken care of with the BB gun. I wish I had an effective bait to report. He didn't go for peanut butter or tunafish. The year previous, one didn't go for oats or popcorn either.

OK, I think I have the exact opposite of the setup I need for Arizona summer bale gardening. I have a tarp catching about 2 inches of water on the bottom, with no evap prevention on the sides or top. I believe just the opposite would be ideal. Why? The water puddles and hundreds of mosquitos thrive. I should be letting the water run into the ground. I got a nice zapper online but the mosquitos are still a problem. And, too much water evaporates from the sides and top. I didn't want a tarp on the sides or top because the nylon gets so hot. I think the ideal setup would be what I've seen on here where the sides are enclosed in a box made of pressure treated wood, and to that I would add some kind of fabric or mulch on top of the bales.

Some ambitious folk have suggested using a solar powered water pump setup to pump the caught water out and recycle it, which might work great, but I think I'm just going to let the water go into the ground in the future.

Any thoughts anyone?

nz0ptk: very detailed post.

Your climate certainly poses some unique challenges.

I have an idea of the mosquitoes which I have loads of here, also. I was told that caffeine disorients the lavea, so was advised to put used tea bags or coffee grounds in standing water. I picked up a bunch of free used coffee grounds from a local starbucks. These are great for mulch, fertilizer, and repel quite a few bugs in addition to messing with the mosquitoes. The other thing I have used with success is putting a small amount of lemon scented Joy (not sure why that one specifically) in a shallow dish of water. The mosquitoes and other bugs land on it, expecting to stay on the surface, but they drown instead because the soap neutralized surface tension. I know that many liquid fertilizers have surfactants in them similar to dish detergent - it helps them go through soil better. You could try putting a few drops in your water reservoir, and if the mosquitoes come, they may not be able to get out. Those zappers never worked here - I get the daytime swamp mosquitoes. You are better off with a good bat house.

nz0ptk-
Here's a posting from lonejack . He describes his watering system and how he is able to regulate his pressure with drippers, etc. This may help with some of the barb leaks or problems with flag drippers popping out:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/976665/#new

Regards,
GG

Good posts about watering. Thanks for all the detail.

hi all i know i am late . i use chep cooking oil in my water barrles. my 2 cents cv45 jim

GG I tried to click on the link and it went to the wrong page, so tried to find it by putting in post number 976665 to find it. But a popup said it was to slow and they discontinued it until something faster was found so can someone tell me how do we search for forums in a persons name or post number. Tried to put in lonejack and came back no search found. Thanks

deanna: try this: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/976665

Go to May 27 and you'll see some some info from LoneJack.

Thanks Kent.