planting zone

Live in Portland Oregon. Always thought we were Zone 9. Now the Sunset Western Garden Book says we are Zone 4. Can someone tell me why, and if we are nationally recognized as Zone 4?

Hi Jan,
Welcome! Love to see more Portland folks!
Well, here's a geeky answer for you to start with. :)

Sunset Garden Book has its own classification system that does not equate to the USDA zones used nationally. USDA only looks at lowest average minimum temperature, not heat loading or other factors. Although, most maps I've seen consider that Portland is really a zone 8 USDA, not zone 9, even with the recent climate changes-and after this winter, well...maybe they're right? Sunset tries to take more local weather conditions into account when designating their zones.

Here's the national USDA map. http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html

I think that Sunset's system is probably more accurate because it can look at much smaller areas, but is so regional that it's harder to use nationally for plant sellers. The USDA system does give a fair idea of whether something has a chance of surviving through a winter anywhere in the US, and it's non-proprietary, too-anyone can use it. But, looking at USDA, you can see why their system doesn't really take everything into account-Dallas, TX is also z8, but look at their summers! Parts of Louisiana and Mississippi are also USDA zone 8-but they're super-humid and warm most of the year.

What edition of the Sunset book are you using? Mine puts Portland and Vancouver in Sunset zone 6. The Coast range would be Sunset z4, though.

There is also an Americal Horticultural Society heat-zone map that is interesting, but isn't as widely used yet. I find it very interesting to compare to the others, though. By this map, number of days above 86', we would be zone 4. http://www.ahs.org/publications/heat_zone_map.htm (You'll have to click on downloadable map to see it)

Hope this helps-and that I didn't bore you to tears or hopelessly confuse you. :)

This message was edited Apr 6, 2009 12:17 PM

Susy - that was nicely done!

Hey, Jan. It's Jan from south Jersey. Oh,it's great to have more Portland people here. The more to meet when I come out sometime to visit relatives. YIPPEE!!

Jangoodwin.. Good question, and Susy, nice answer! I am hugely confused about which zone I am in as well, as depending on the area you look, I am everywhere from a zone 6 to 8. I think that it would be impossible for any organization to take into consideration all of the microclimates that exist, and so have learned to take zones as a "general" rule, and then your own experience in your own yard to adjust your purchasing accordingly. I am at 700 feet, but am still considered in the same zone as the people right next to the Puget Sound according to some sources. Then when I lose something that is supposedly hardy to zone 8, I don't understand why. From experience over the last 10 years here, I have decided that I am closer to the 6b/7a then 8 in my own little world. That's how I judge what to buy/or take a chance on. It's a learning curve..and a hard one if you get really attached to your plants!

Hi, thanks, folks! Feels like I earned a gold star today, lol!
Jan, hope we haven't scared you away!
Julie makes some really good points, too. I'm not usually much of a zone pusher, either. I'll buy z8 things, but sometimes hesitantly. I worry much less about things tagged z7. The microclimes are so variable, and around here, the winds from down the Gorge can pack quite the weather punch, but how do you account for that in a zone map? Plus, to make it even trickier, some things need particular conditions like hot summers, wet summers or dry falls to prepare them for maximum hardiness-and that info isn't nearly as easy to find as a USDA zone. Seems I find out about those variables after something's died on me. :(

Glad I'm not the only one confused about what zone I'm in. Thank you for the question and the answers.

Sue - you are our resident research scientist! You're so good at gathering the details and sharing them with the rest of us.

When I lose something, I just harrumph that "I'll never try that again," and then at the end of the summer, I miss it enough that I acquiesce.

In the end, I just chalk it up to a bad tendency of my creative side. ^_^

This message was edited Apr 7, 2009 9:27 PM

Lol, Kathy, but you do a lot more research than I do-you're always posting stuff from web searches to help folks out. :)

I try not to kill the same thing more than twice....if I've sent it off twice then I think it's just not meant to be, or it's time to figure out why it keeps dying. Funny sometimes the stuff that dies, and the stuff that doesn't, isn't it?

I wish I could give up after twice. Some things I am determined to grow and there is just no prayer...but I still keep trying! I would love to have a Bog Rosemary. Have planted probably six of them. Have killed six of them. Have the perfect spot according to everything I have read. Have tried the not so perfect spot too. Dead, dead, dead.

Someone's definition (I may misquote slightly) "Perennial"...something that I have killed at least once.

lol, I can't keep an Agastache 'Tutti Frutti' alive. I've killed at least four (so much for the stop at two rule, huh? ;) ). The other four or five different ones I have are trucking right along, but not the Tutti Frutti....I think I'll stick to the other ones....I'm also slowly killing (or it's slowly dying) Heuchera 'Snow Angel' #2-it 's just getting smaller and smaller. One day it probably just won't be there. At least I know it has a reputation for fussiness. I've decided to try 'Hercules' instead.

Like that definition! Seems like I read something similar somewhere that you aren't a real gardener unless you've killed a lot of plants-guess that makes me a real gardener...

Snow Angel is one of those Heucheras that tend to melt away. Mine, however, was disappearing into the mouth of the Rabbit I busted the other day. He tried to trick me with the "I'm invisible" angle, but I scolded him severely. Without skipping a beat he tried that innocent "you really didn't see me eat that" look. So busted! I pulled my best Mr. MacGregor accent & sent him packing to the 6 acre Blueberry Farm.
He's a hybrid: white fur with brown tips - the result of a night to remember between a rather frisky domesticated female escapee bunny from next door with one of the local boys.
Oh so fashionable, but no street smarts!

Lol! Sounds like a very pretty scoundrel...I'm not sure, though, if being eaten wouldn't be a better end for snow angel than to watch it slowly melt away into nothing..although, for a snow angel......hmmm........

I posted on Rhodo's, but I am not sure its the best thread for my questions.
I had a 50 yr old very healthy Rhodo moved today into my yard to save it from the axe.
Its about 10'ft across and 6-8 ft tall. (mauve when it blooms, so its a late variety)

My other Rhodos are huge and healthy near it, so the soil is perfect for it, NW BC Rainforest climate. QCIslands.

The question I 'm not sure of is, is it okay to prune some old straggly branches that are sticking up way higher than the rest. I have shocked it a lot by moving it, should I wait?

I am tempted to do it, but would welcome suggestions. I hope it lives for us.

Not to sound stupid, but, by "rhodos" you mean rhododendrons, right?

They should be fine with pruning of dead branches at any time. You can prune live branches all year, as well - the more you prune, the more you will stress the tree, so you might avoid heavy pruning (over 1/3 of the plant) during the hottest, dryest months.

And remember that buds for this year's flowers started forming last year, so if you prune now, you will lose those blossoms.

Kathy

Hi Suzybell and everyone else. You didn't scare me away. I forgot I even asked the question and wasn't back on the site until today. That's old age for ya! Thank you so much for the very informed answer. I have a much clearer insight as to how the zones are determined.

We had 3 days of glorious weather during our usual normal spring rain, so have been
out in the garden doing as much as I can. Roses coming up beautifully. Stocks as big as my wrist. Inherited them several years ago from a very old garden and they
seem to like their new home.

Started a children's vegetable garden this weekend for annual Master Gardener
hours, and laughed until I cried. Kids are all under 8. We call our garden the Pee
Wee Pea Patch. Growing all the easiest things for kids, including pumpkins for fall,
and a sunflower house. The kids really took to the whole thing, even the 3 year olds.

Anyone sucker the for hanging tomatoe planters? It's been 4 days and my tomatoes
are definately dead!

Jan

Hi Jan, good to see you back here, glad to have helped out. What a crazy spring, huh? a couple wonderful warm days, a couple of cold days, I can't get climate adjusted.

Your pea patch sounds like a fun project. I'll bet it will be interesting to watch what comes up where.... ;)

I've never done the upside down tomato thing, but a few others have. I think Judi, Portland1, is trying it this year (hers weren't looking too good after our cold days either) and I think Rarejem has also tried them. They were chatting about them on one of the other threads, but I'm not sure which. Please feel welcome to drop right in on any thread that looks interesting- we like new people, and always love to see more garden pictures.

As for your roses, you must have a great spot for them. There's something special about the really old ones, too. :)

The upside-down Tomato planters probably do well in climates that don't experience such cool evenings. They look like they'd work well for some of the very small determinate types, like the currant or grape tomatoes. When they are planted in ground, the heat can be captured via plastic or row cover - the soil provides insulation. But tomatoes don't like evening temps below 50°, and since they're planted in the hanging planters, they would be more exposed - roots & top.
Tomatoes in my raised beds put out some incredible roots: lengthwise & thickness. Those hanging planters don't look large enough to contain a root system & soil, other than for the aforementioned small varieties.

My neighbor across the street is hanging hers for the third year, but she doesn't start it until it starts to warm up some. Then it goes like gangbusters. She uses a cane and can't garden much, so it's perfect for her. I'm going to try it too, but haven't put it out yet, nights have still been getting into the 30's. She grows regular size, not beef steaks. Actually the bag should act as protection for the roots, unfortunately not the foliage.

Thanks, Sally - that's good to know. My Uncle was asking me about these & while I have not tried them myself, i know others that have - the results have been quite mixed.
If one lived in the cooler parts of the PNW, but has a very protected area that collects warmth during the day, it would most likely produce a nice quantity of fruit.
I told my Uncle that he could grow them any way he wants: he lives in San Diego with near-perfect weather! Everything my aunt grew was prolific.

My neighbor has hers on a hook near her drive way, out in the open but it gets full sun, especially the late afternoon sun. San Diego, full sun might be too much! LOL