I can't find a forum for root cellaring so I hope homesteading is the right one. I'd like to hear about root cellars that any of you have built or dug or whatever, and what kind of luck you have had storing your potatoes, apples, carrots, beets, onons, etc. How do you prepare them for storage, and how long can you keep them?
Digging a big hole in the ground on this limestone shelf where I live is not an option. Besides, all the gullies around here face southwest, which is mostly where the wind comes from and also mostly where the sun comes from, so it would get too warm.
At my son-the-chef's restaurant they had to replace a freezer that went out, so last week Son trailered the deader out to my place, 30 miles from town. This Sunday my granddaughter's boyfriend, the star fullback from the local HS football team, is going to help him unload this monster into my carport. I am hoping to use it as a root cellar. It is about 5' wide x 3' deep by 6' tall, double doors, and is insulated like crazy. I figure since my carport is always shaded and acts as a breezeway in the summer, that that is the coolest place on my land. Hopefully nothing inside will freeze in the winter, I just don't know.
So what do ya think? Will this work? Do I have to drill some holes for ventilation? Remove the door handles for safety (no little kids around here but you never know)? I am so sure that I will be harvesting bushels of potatoes and apples (ha ha, that will be a first for this city girl), that I need to get ready!
Root cellaring?
I bought a book on root cellaring but haven't started it yet.
I have an underground storm shelter that may work for some things. I will be watching this thread to what people post.
:) Jennifer
Oh, a storm cellar! Infrequently we have teensy little tornados reported in this area, nothing like the ones in the MidWest, but enough to roll trailers over. Wonder if there is room in the restaurant freezer for me to get in it? (My son says it would be a great tornado VEHICLE.) LOL
Hi AZ,
A root cellar is one of those things I lust for. LOL Right now I'm storing things in our pumphouse, which is well insulated and cool, but probably not cool enough some days. But it seems to stretch our use by date on the root crops and winter squashes a good bit. We're moving in the direction of dead fridges and freezers ourselves. =0)
I'd leave the handles on (just 'cause I like handles) and put a padlock on the sucker for safety. Everything I've read talks about the need for air circulation, but it's usually from a cellar, back east where it's wet kind of perspective, so I'd go slow with that. Maybe just a couple to start and see if you get moisture build-up problems? So many things want high humidity in cold storage and out here that's always a challenge. =0) Maybe a small bucket of water inside to raise the humidity... depending on what you're storing.
You might stack some adobes around the box to create more of a heat/cold buffer. They won't get as infested with things as hay or straw would.
Have you got Bubel's Root Cellaring book?
No, I don't have Bubel's book but will look for it. Thanks for the hints, I think I will wait and see on ventilation, because humidity doesn't seem to be a problem up here, and if that's the only reason for ventiliation I may not need to worry about it. Besides, I hate to drill holes in an intact freezer. A padlock is a good idea, too. I never thought about using my pumphouse but this is the first full year for my Big Garden so haven't had anything to put in a root cellar yet.
Behind a Mexican restaurant in Holbrook is a freezer, apparently non-working, similar to the one I am getting. Nothing in it, no locks, it is just sitting there and looks like it has been there for awhile. Maybe there is one behind a restaurant in Las Vegas or Albuquerque that the owners woud love to have hauled off for free?
One thing at a time! I'm still trying to get my high tunnel up! LOL And my pasture seeded, my cheese and yogurt made, and the beds ready for spring planting.
I think there's also something about some of the gasses emitted by some veggies affecting others, but that should be in Bubel's book. Mostly I think it's about moisture build up. I keep an eye out for info...
lol- there is always at least 10 *somethings* on my to do list. :)
Apples emit gas... I am sure there are more...
This message was edited Mar 14, 2009 4:42 PM
I looked up Bubel's book and realized that the authors are Mike & Nancy Bubel -- they were frequent contributors to the old Organic Gardening & Farming magazine, back in the 60's -- that's about 4 lifetimes ago for me! I'll have to order the book and learn how to store vegs & fruits.
My to-do list gets longer every day. Sometimes I will do something and then write it on the list, just for the satisfaction of crossing something off!
Oh, I've done that. LOL
Just remember that the Bubel's lived someplace wet... at least in comparison to where you're at! LOL That's sure a pretty area, if you like empty and wide open. Or are you more in the pines along the rim? I've only driven out there a little bit, took the back road from Flagstaff to Show Low, then down to Payson (home of Zane Grey, sort of).
Yes, I love "pretty and wide-open". It's part of the former Hash Knife outfit, if you are a Zane Grey fan you'll know about the Aztec Land & Cattle Co. Those of us born in Phoenix always aspired to having a cabin in the tall pines some day, but after visiting two sisters & a brother at their cabins in the pines, I found that I felt very claustrophic there. A little canyon winds through my property and I have a wonderful view of the opposite canyon wall, plus there are lots of decidious trees & bushes (including black walnut) down there, and even pre-historic petroglyphs & pictographs. Great place to hike! On clear days I have a great view of the snow-covered SF Peaks. My property is bordered on two sides by state-owned sections so I have perfect peace and quiet.
Hi all. Just in case you missed it, Sharran wrote a great article about Root Cellars http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1822/
Thanks, dahnlianut! I'm printing out a copy to save.
BTW, "the monster" was delivered safely by my son and the fullback. Now all I need to do is grow something to put in it. Oh, guess I can take my store-bought potatoes & onions out there and hopefully they won't sprout. I think the doors can be pushed open from inside, but I am NOT going to climb in to check that out until somebody else is around! LOL
The photo is of the interior of the monster, I couldn't figure out how to attach 2 pix.
Here's the outside of the monster:
Experiencing jealousy...
LOL
Your location sounds dreamy to this desert rat. What's your average rainfall in a year? I think ours is supposed to be 18", but you know how that is...
Jay, must be the difference between 5b and 6b! I don't think we get 10" of rain a year -- I have hauled water (there's a community water coop) up until about 3 years ago when I had a well put in, since then I have been planting things wherever I can get a shovel in the ground!
My late husband's great-grandparents were among a group of Quakers who sold everything they owned in Indiana and moved to Las Vegas, NM. Apparently they weren't used to dry farming and they eventually all went back to Indiana, broke. I am surprised to hear that your rainfall is 18", sounds like a lot to me. What is Las Vegas like now?
Great score on the freezer!
Here's a couple of links that I saved.The first one is about burying a deep freeze. I couldn't find the link for the other idea (mentioned above), which involved adding extra insulation (2" styrofoam sheets) for insulation inside and stacking strawbales around the outside. The second link is just a cool idea.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5806_make-deep-freeze.html
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1983-07-01/A-Flatlanders-Root-Cellar.aspx
Well, half of that 18" is supposed to be snow... good luck with that idea this year. =0(
As for now... I've only been up here for 6 years, so I can't really say how it's changed, but the old timer's say there are more weather extremes than used to be. Not much farming going on at all, mostly range cattle, with just hay making in the mountain valleys. We've had several years of winter drought, which leaves the range in poor condition for spring and summer. This winter has been particularly bad, and herds are down appreciably. Last summer was pretty cool and wet, my corn molded on the stalk, most of my tomatoes didn't ripen til I put a quick plastic greenhouse over them at the end of the season. And these are varieties that usually do up here.
One of the big reasons I got the high tunnel is because of the hail! Seems like as soon as it stops snowing, we can, might, will get hail. I lucked out last year, the hail we got was little. But just 4 miles down the road, there were drifts of marble sized hail after one storm. Shew!
I lived in Abq. before and that's a 9" area. Things grew great if you could get water and shade to 'em. So I know what that's like... though I had sand, not stone. I'm guessing you won't be doing waffle gardens? LOL
Gives "miner's lettuce" a whole new meaning. =0)
Jay
Where AZ is at, I'd use adobe or stone rather than straw... perfect haven for deer mice, carriers of hanta virus. That'd sure ruin your day...
You might get a high/low thermometer to see what goes on in that wondrous box...
Almost never get any hail here. How is the high tunnel coming along?
I like the idea of insulating the outside of the freezer, and the high/low thermometer, too. To my surprise, it was 65 inside just now when my son shut me up in it. (Insert laugh line of your choice here.) Well, I had to make sure that if a kid got in some day, that he or she could get out, and it is easy, just push on the door.
No vampires inside, either. 8^(
Re hantavirus, because of the juniper pollen blowing around out there right now, if I got hantavirus I would probably not even notice!
Not until you woke up dead! LOL Or undead, depending on who your friends are. I'm thinking there must be a lot of vamps in AZ... in the summer, after dark is the only time you can get anything done outside. Yep, the snow birds leave, the vamps come in... all those late night partyers in the RVs... vamps. Yep.
I understand becoming one of the Undead does great things for the complexion. Must be why the idea is soooo popular among teens. I've never heard of a vamp with zits. Can you imagine having acne for eternity? LOL
Bleh, bleh, bleh....
}:o)=
Re having acne for eternity, I thought I did . . . LOL
Meanwhile, a status report on my restaurant freezer "root cellar", aka the monster.
It didn't stay totally cool but it didn't freeze, either. A month ago I put 3 big bags of big fat grapefruit from the Valley inside (thanks to a DG'r who has grapefruit & orange trees), and have been having one a day (to keep the doctor away, of course). One of these Fat Boys makes a full glass of fresh grapefruit juice. All the grapefruit stayed relatively fresh, at least fresher than the garbage they sell in town. Wonder if it will keep stuff that well through the summer -- except I don't expect to have anything home grown to put in it until fall, anyway.
Thanks for the update!
You're probably right about the summer and lack of stuff to put in it. Might throw a towel over the door to keep it open slightly during the summer.
Great to hear it works for grapefruit... um, yum! =0)
Here's a thought for the warm, because you'll probably have things late summer (when it's nice and hot) you'll want to start storing... I've seen this done with pig barns in Iowa...
Run a pipe underground and up to a hole drilled low in the box. Get the pipe as deep as you can (I remember about the limestone); in Iowa they went 3' down. If you can't get down that far, throw dirt on top to add depth. Because soil maintains a pretty constant temp just a few feet down, the soil will cool the air... I don't know how long a run, maybe 50'? Anyway, the cool air should be pulled into the box as the warmer air moves out another hole or holes drilled high in the box... not too many, cause it's so dry out your way and some humidity is a good thing. You may even need to put a small bucket of water in there.
Need a screen over the end to keep varmints out. I tink on the pig barns they had the ends sticking up a foot or so to prevent water from getting in during storms.
In the pig barns they used a fan to draw the air, and that might be needed if the circulation doesn't work passively.
Just something for you to ruminate on... oh, in the winter I think the soil would also warm the air a bit, but the passive system wouldn't work, so a small fan would be a must.
Interesting, Jay, maybe I can devise something on those lines. I remember reading some time ago about some people who built a house in the Valley and built a "cooling tower" as part of their home, that works on the same principle, only I think their hole in the ground was around 20 feet deep, and the tower 20 feet high. Passive cooling! And it works.
Yes, the summer will be dry. And hot. Keeping the door ajar is a good idea, Robin.
20' deep! Good heavens... no way those pig farmers did that. I think they ran their lines out 150' but they were cooling big barns, so just seems like you could scale down a bit. LOL
Just found this thread... I haven't had the luxury of surfing DG for several months lately.
Grammie, I think you have a bargain! I would be concerned about lack of ventilation since most veggies have a high water content, and might sweat, which could lead to mold and deteriorition. Also, keep in mind Jay's mention of the ethylene gas apples give off... it will make your potatoes and onions sprout. (I did have a few apples in mine one year, but mine leaks air, so the few I had did no harm.
I would have thought that a freezer would be well insulated, and not need any exterior insulation added, esp. in a garage? Of course, I don't have any idea how cold your winters get...
I posted a photo of mine just this week, don't remember where, but Jay probably will.
It's not the cold of the winters, Darius, it's the heat of the summers! And the intensity of the sun; you have no idea how much 'solar gain' a little altitude gives you.
I can't hardly see down at your altitude, there's so much oxygen in the way! LOL
Mmmmm, I think it was on the chevre thread?
Oh, I never thought about cold storage during summer heat although Grammie did mention citrus!
We seldom get much above 90ºF here, and my spring house (which is down in a low swale) stays relatively cool IF I wanted to store anything short-term. Nothing like milk jugs in running water, though... they put in some large piping years ago to direct the water straight through the spring house into a spring box with a submersible pump (outside the structure), so now the house stays mostly somewhat dry except when we have lots of rain. If I can ever get someone to dig out the spring, I'll take out the piping. That's where I'll grow mushrooms.
Hey, I MAY have a cowshare and/or a goatshare! Whooopeee!
Darius, Jay's right about the summer heat, although I put the freezer in the north end of the carport where the sun will never stike it, and the carport acts like a breezeway when the wind blows, which is most of the time! I admired your root cellar building in whichever forum you had pix and described it, and posted a reply (mostly "ooooooooh") but it never showed up, sometimes that happens to me! I am always so envious of you easteners' & southeners' lush greenery, too, not to mention your rainfall! I look out at my landscape which is mostly rocks, junipers, and tumbleweeds, and just sigh. Oh, well. There are good things and not-so-good things most anywhere, and I do love it here, but gardening is a real challenge.
I think you mentioned that you kept your potatoes etc in nests of straw, and I think that's an idea that will work or me.
A goatshare & cowshare, how lovely. Hope you get to share the poop as well as the milk!
Somehow I thought you had an enclosed garage, not a carport. That would make a difference!
Major milk envy happening! My source for cow milk was irratic and has finally dried up (har-har). The last gallon I got was nasty! The dogs got it. I keep looking at our scores of beef cows and thinking... one of them would give me plenty of milk. The SU shudders! Yesterday she informed me no new projects for some time... the high tunnel is proving to be enough for her right now.
I've been curious about mushroom growing since someone I know dug a huge hole, built walls from old tires, put a roof on it and said they were going to grow 'shrooms. Don't know whatever happened to that idea; I've lost touch with them.
I've researched growing mushrooms off and on for several years, perhaps ever since I visited the underground commercial mushroom 'vaults' in Kennet Square, PA. Some of the easiest mushrooms to grow are the least familiar, hence could be a hard sell to local markets. Of the better known, shiitake is fairly simple. I understand the ubiquitous button is not so easy, though.
How 'bout the portabella? That's my fav...
Hey, dang, that's a cheese cave you've got there; a place to store your cow share for the dry season! LOL
My wife and I had the opportunity to buy the old family home and the small farm that went with it. I did not want to lose any space to store canned goods and veggies. Therefore, I put my engineering skills to use along with country boy ingenuity. with a 5 bay shed enclosed I opened up two bays and dug them out making a full basement area poured the floor with a channel and then pour the walls seta pre cast top and poured over that leaving an access to get below, installed steps and shelving and set up ventilation all powered by solar, everything was free or almost free except the concrete.
This still allowed me to use the space above to store stuff as before and use the area below as a storm shelter and food storage/root cellar it stays a low 52 degrees and is not musky at all I store cabbage, carrots, root veggies , head veggies , and canned goods there quite well winters are not harsh and heat is not a problem .
That sounds perfect. I have a cellar but the floor is dirt and gravel and it has a small seep. The big problem is trying to keep the critters out.
Clever use of the space, and a great root cellar! Congrats.
thank you took som thinking foks thoght i was crazy at first till i finished it then everyone wanted to see what it was and how I had fixed it inside.LOL
Can you post a few pics? I'd love to see it.
I'll try to get a few posted soon for all to see how things turnd out .
Sounds like a perfect cellar!