How many weeks before you set your plants out do you start them inside? This sentence sounds awkward but I hope you know what I mean.
Thanks,
Lisa
When do you start squash, melons, cucumbers?
For plants like melons, squash, and cukes grown in 3 inch containers , I think that 3 weeks is best. Commercial melon greenhouses that grow plugs run closer to 4 weeks perhaps.
That's what I thought but it doesn't seem like a very long time. I guess after dealing with peppers tomatoes and egg plant I think everything should take forever to germinate.
They don't like to transplant when it would mess with their roots.
Seedless watermelons take longer to germinate and you really have to start them inside on a heat mat.
Squash take off pretty quick.
I have to agree with LTilton that they hate transplanting. They will sprout in 4 or 5 days and grow like crazy so you really don't gain a lot of time starting them inside in zone 8b.
I'm thinking of planting mine out about a week before last frost (03/20) and having some milk jugs handy to cover them with if the night temps get below 45. Please God, no more frost in the middle of April like last year.
I also don't transplant these because they don't like it.
Planting time outside for here is as follows (add 2 weeks later for your zone):
squash (summer)--March 8-March 29
cucumbers--March 1-April 12
watermelons--March 1-April 12
Debbie
=)
Start these in a paper or peat or biodegradable pots and transplant the whole container into the garden. Set the top of the pot below the soil so that the lip does not wick moisture from the root ball before the roots break through the pot and the pot decomposes.
I do use peat pellets and peat pots so there is no problem with transplant shock.
Debbie- thank you for the time line. I don't put them out until April but I get inpatient and start them too early indoors.
Lisa
Lisa--impatience is easy to do this time of year!
=)
Just thought I'd chime in and let ya know that I start all these in the ground. I'm in 7b. I do start tomatos and peppers indoors though - don't know why I do it this way, just always have and it works for me. Stacey
It gets so warm so fast that I either plant indoors 2-3 days before planting outside, or I make a little pocket of seed starting mix outside, water it, and then sow seeds directly into it.
Starting seeds indoors you have to keep the plants right up against the lights otherwise you get leggy plants. Cucurbits grow fast!
I'm starting them for other people too. So I need to start them inside. By that late in the season I don't usually need lights because I keep them outside as much as I can. I just can never get it through my thick skull. That they grow really fast and con't need much "start time". How about Okra?
Debbie, thanks so much for posting when to start those plants. One of my biggest challenges has been trying to figure out when to plant. Your post solves a lot of the mystery for me.
I'm in zone 9a or 9b.
Pug- come on you live in CA you can plant anytime. Just kidding
THAT'S what I thought. Shoulda been here last summer in 108 degree temps, I planted 3 or 4 months too late for many things. That's what I get for being raised in southeast Missouri when you plant things like a normal person would - in the spring. LOL !
Pug--actually that was info for Texas, probably not applicable at all in CA.
Debbie
Thanks, Debbie. I was wondering if all like zones were created equal across the country.
Even so, what you posted makes more sense than what I did last year. LOL!
Seattle and Austin, TX are both zone 8 but completely different as far as rainfall, summer temps, etc.. So can't really make generalizations based solely on zone.
As for Okra, you pre-soak the seeds for ~1 hour or more and then just plant outside. It's a weed and it loves hot temps. :)
This message was edited Feb 12, 2009 8:45 AM
Does anyone know where we can find specific information about this? I've searched all over and can't seem to find out what I want to know.
Someone had mentioned a Sunset book that contains this information. I'd really like to buy that book if I knew which one it was.
Houston and much of the area north of Houston are in zone 9a not zone 8--this has been in effect since 2006:
http://www.arborday.org/media/Zones.cfm
edited to add--we cross-posted Pug, here it is. The Houston area has never had a low temperature below 20F in the 25 years I have lived here. This reflects the changes since the 1990 USDA map:
http://www.arborday.org/media/map_change.cfm
Debbie
This message was edited Feb 5, 2009 10:41 AM
I believe that cukes and squash are usually best started in the ground. But then those new seedlings can be vulnerable to cucumber bettles for a few days while small.
I start melons indoors here .... 3° this morning and not melon weather!!]
I want some July melons.. see?
It never gets below that here either, Debbie. The map says zone 9.
Can you grow two crops per season? If I had the sun, I could do it here, can grow year round if it's planted at the right times, I guess. July and August are absolutely brutal here, everything wants to shut down during those two months, other than the eggplant and okra.
pak choi and toi choi I successively plant (about every 2-3 weeks--whenever I think about it) all winter from start of Nov to mid Jan at the same time and way I plant carrots, lettuces, and edible podded peas. I've never seen any of these freeze to death in the 25 years I've been doing them in the winter--except tall edible podded peas a couple of times. They are very cold hardy when short but less so as they grow tall--I've never seen the 2' varieties like super snappy freeze and die at all.
Mid July thru mid Sept are pretty brutal here too!
Well, it sure sounds like out zones are just about identical. So I am inclined to believe that a zone 9a wherever it may be, is the same as any other.
I lived in Texas back in the late 70's. Now I'm dating myself. LOL! I was in Weatherford, the weather was interesting to say the least.
I grow a lot of bulbs--and a lot of people in CA grow the same kinds of bulbs. We have identical mild, wet winters (although ours this year is very dry) which is when the bulbs are in active growth. The difference is we have summer rainfall (sometimes a lot, other years not so much) but ya'll are basically bone dry from late April until October (roughly), right? You are in Southern CA, right?
Yes, I'm about halfway between San Diego and Los Angeles. I'm sure there are a zillion microclimates here, probably different from where I am on the side of a mountain to down in the valley below where the lake is located. I saw on one of those maps you posted there is a tiny pocket of zone 10, but can't be sure where that it, is looks very close to me.
We've been in a drought situation here for awhile now. It used to rain a lot during the months of November and December. I can count on my fingers how many times it's rained in the past two years I think. It's definitely bone dry from April through October.
It'd be nice to get some free water for the garden in summer, but nary a drop. I'm having to water 2x a day many days. (I have everything in pots or in a raised bed.)
I think from the growers I know in San Diego--they are zone 10 right close to the water. Been an unusually dry winter here, too (we usually get about 40" per year with about 20" falling Dec-Feb) not a drop at my place since before Christmas.
Pugzley - Sunset Western Garden Book defines our microclimates as well as can be expected, given things can be different from one side of your property to another and there's that nasty climate change uncertainty. WGB revised, zones more detailed over 55 years, pricey new edition with expanded encyclopedia every few years. In my opinion, older versions had better vegetable sections but you might like a new one. Presumably you could find one at a library and copy the four-page veg by zone section. I grew up with WGB (zone 19, Chatsworth, City of L.A.) so I'm convinced you "need" one. US now mapped by Sunset - online maps don't tell much - www.sunset.com/garden/climate-zones/sunset-climate-zones-california-nevada-00400000036331/. Zone descriptions online. By their system, you are either zone 18 (lower elevation valley, colder winter, deciduous fruit best, some avocados and citrus) or more likely zone 19 (thermal belt upslope, warmer winter, commercial citrus ok); both have hot summers, mild rainy winters (when it rains) and no ocean influence. In my present zone 21 (aka 10b), most (but certainly not all) recent winters we haven't frozen, or it's just a night or two in late December, but my lowest low over 30 years is 23F. January gets comparatively warmer, and in February and March, it is supposed to rain : ). Heck, sometimes, you just measure the soil temperature, roll the dice, and plant zucchini in February right next to the peas and bok choy. This is California normal. Final two cents - I think the recommendations for start times and observations on climate differences from Houston are quite reasonable. - BB in L.A. who has never posted anything
Just came across this thread - hi Pugz ! I've been wondering as well... started some seeds inside and DH is building beds. dmj dates do sound reasonable, I was thinking mid March... but will definitely watch those low temps.
bhbmacd, I'm going to take a trip to the library tomorrow and see what they've got up there.
Hi Redtootsiepop! :)
It's been below freezing and frost here the past 2 nights! Just when I thought it might be safe. Luckily I didn't put my 35 little tomato sprouts outside (the ones that won't fit under my growlight). Otherwise they'd have been frozen to death. I had brought them in due to high winds a few days ago and just never put them back outside yet.
I just got some heat mats today, so I'll hopefully see some peppers poking their heads out soon, those are the slowest things! Not that I'm impatient or anything. LOL!
I want growing weather!
Red and Pug, call your local County Extension Agent. He or she will know the average last freeze date for your area. Some things can go in before the average last freeze date -- radishes, lettuce, spinach, turnips, and many others. Others have to go in afterwards -- tomatoes, eggplants, peppers, squash, cucumbers. The ones that go in afterwards can be started before the average last freeze date indoors and put out. Peppers and eggplants do take a long time to germinate so I plant them 6 to 8 weeks before my average last freeze date -- which is way later than yours. Many veggies can take a little frost. Other can't.
Your county agent can really help you know when to plant better than knowing your zone.
I just sent them an email this afternoon, paj! :)
I've got spinach, lettuce, carrots and collards sprouting, some spinach growing now.
Here's a pic of my tomato plants that sprouted on 1/21/09, I took this one today.
That tomato plant looks quite healthy and I am glad to see you have it in a nice size pot because I don't know when you can set it out -- but I bet it isn't too long from now. Are your spinach, lettuce, carrots and collards indoors? I bet they could go out almost immediately. Normally I would start those outdoors, but you can always move them out when the right time comes.
I would try to get your carrots out pretty soon because when their roots hit the bottom of the pot they will start circling the pot with their root which will make for pretty weird carrots. I know people do sprout them in pots, but I wonder how well that works?
But the rest can go out soon, except the tomatoes.
You are on your way.
I'm thinking in about 2 weeks it should be safe to set them out.
The spinach, carrots and collards are outside, I've sprouted them directly from seed in very large pots. I don't know what, if anything the freezing temps have done to them yet.
Sounds like I may be a bit contrarian here, but I transplant all my curcurbits (squash, melons, cucumbers), okra and even carrots! Purslane and radishes may be the few things that I sow in seed form. These are sown underneath an existing crop that will soon be harvested or removed.
At the moment our only gardening spaces are raised beds in community gardens. We need to maximize the production, so each time one crop comes out, a seedling is transplanted in its place. We don't have enough space to have the luxury of bare soil waiting for seeds to sprout. I check the expected harvest/removal dates of the existing crop, count backwards on the calendar and start my seeds indoors.
Carrots take such a long time to sprout that I don't want to risk them drying out. I find that they transplant just fine. I'm careful to not disturb the roots when I put them in the ground. I water in all transplants with a probiotic solution.