Dealing with Wetlands and Common areas

I wasn't quite sure where to put this thread... but since i'll be dealing with wild flowers and prairie plants... i figured this would be a good place.

I'm wondering if anyone here has an experience dealing with these issues....

here is my situation...

I live in a subdivision where, when it was built, the builder had to create detention ponds and a mitigated wetlands. [there were current wetland areas that were filled in to build some houses, so they had to create one ... but from the reports i've read, it's a 'failed' mitigation.]

BUT -- we have to maintain these. The property in question was turned over to the "Board" 2 yrs ago, and we [the HOA Board] has done nothing so far. [the wetlands is only 0.44acre]

what i want to do, and another gal on the board... is to beautify the ponds, which are eroding and are filled with cat tails..... we'd like to have the banks regraded and wild flowers planted, and the cat tails 'dealt' with.

As for the wetlands... I'm really not sure what we have to do for them. [i currently do not have the report from the company that was monitoring it] but i recall soemthing about prescribed burn every 3-5 yrs .... though i'm hoping to get away with just high-mowing once per year. I'd also like to get more wild flowers in there, and i know it needs to be weeded... but i really do not know much about wetland areas.... ours is considered a dry prairie, as there is really no standing water.

If anyone has any insight or tips for these issues... i'd love to hear them.

from the other threads.... i LOVE what AdamWoodruff has done.

Thanks in advance,

Terese

Hi Terese,
I'll try to help if I can. I don't work much with wetland restoration but I've seen a lot of wetlands and a lot of bad things done to wetlands. Man-made wetlands rarely end up looking like real wetlands because the soil and hydrology are just not the same. Some photos of your wetlands would really help too.

Unfortunately you don't have a lot of options when it comes to your cattails. Whenever you have full sun and standing water, you will have cattails, it's the natural successional state of disturbed wetlands. You can drain the pond and have them dug up, but they'll be back in a couple of years. You can raise the level of water by a few feet, but you'll still get them at the edges. There are some heavy duty herbicides that will kill them for a few years. The best long term solution is to plant trees around the edges of the pond (Ash trees are particularly well suited to this use). The trees will eventually shade out the cattails. Or you can just enjoy the birds and fish and frogs and other critters that live in the cattails. Make sure you plant more than just wildflowers on your banks. They are pretty but most don't have the soil stabilizing ability of rhizomatous grasses. If soil compaction from foot traffic is preventing the plants from growing, a small deck and/or footpath with pavers or gravel can help focus use onto more durable surfaces.

As for the prairie, there are a lot of prairie restoration groups out there and I think there is a national tall grass prairie in Illinois somewhere. I'm sure they would be able to help you pick out the right plants for your setting and might even have native plant sales. Your prairie was probably seeded with a mix of native grass seed with very little thought given to forbs. Photos and a hydrologic description of the areas you are working on (seasonal flooding, high water table, flowing water) would be helpful when you talk to the local experts. If you can, try to estimate the depth of the water table.

Janel

Janel,

thanks for all that info... and yes, there is a company called Tallgrass Restoration in Schaumburg, IL. [which is about 10 min from me] they are on my short list of companies to call. [we have our HOA meeting in 2 days] I figure they cant do much til spring anyways... as there is a foot of snow on the ground with more on the way.

I found some images that were taken July of 2007
We have a "dry" wetlands and 3 Outlots
Outlot A is a regular pond, it was existing, but it's been reshaped by the builder
Out Lot B&C are basically detention ponds, that never fully drain all the way, so there is always standing water.

This past summer, at least on "C" [which is outside my BR window] we have a family of muskrats... so the cat tails have been 'chewed' down.

Here is Out Lot A

I do not think i have any images of Out Lot "B" ... but it's similar to "C"

Here is "C" again.... more showing how the cat tails have been reduced a bit... this was the flooding we had a few weeks ago when all the snow melted and we got A LOT of rain.

here is part of the wetlands.... it is up front by Out Lot "A"

There are townhomes, that are not a part of our HOA, that borders the land on the East... they use our land as a trash bin... there is always garbage out there.... which is just so sad..

From what i gather... there is a 'buffer' zone surrounding the wetlands too.

I grabbed this off of Google Earth and tweaked it a bit....
this is the Wet Lands and Out Lot A, along with the Buffer Areas.... the buffer around the pond and west of the wet lands is a mowed area ... the rest is not.

Well A looks nice but I can see how B and C are less than aesthetically pleasing. Unfortunately the only ways to get rid of those cattails are to get rid of the shallow water or the sun, or use chemicals. Too bad the water is so far from those big trees behind C.

Your prairie has a few flowers, just not very big ones. I think prescribed burning is overly optimistic for such a small area so close to houses. I can just imagine the people in the townhouses having an absolute fit over the smoke.

Isn't it irritating when people just don't care? The last place we lived had a HOA and common areas. The kids from the low-income townhouses down the hill would come up to our common areas and trash the landscaping for fun. DH was basically the entire landscaping committee so he installed a remote control on the sprinkler system and would turn it on when they would show up. It also worked on a couple of teenagers who were making out on the lawn next to our house one night. We had a good laugh over that one.

>>We had a good laugh over that one.

that would have been something to see.

those trees around C are Oaks... and small ones at that.

there is wildlife in the outlots... I personally do not dislike the 'tails' as i know birds nest in there, we have a lot of frogs, many ducks [mallards] in the 'season' ... bunnies live in the center section, where it is shallower ...

some folks complain about how it looks, but no one is willing to spend any money to fix it up.

there is a lot of erosion... something that need to be taken care of.

but with the "tail" ...as long as the must rats still live there... they will help keep them down ... and i hear [have read] that ducks/ducklings eat the cat tails too.

The current HOA Pres backs up to "B" and he has specifically stated that he want's the "mowed lawn" look and not flowers ... me and the other gal, who live by "C" [we are both on the HOA, and doing all the leg work for this] we would like the wild flower look... plus with the flowers instead of all grasses... that will keep the costs down, over all, since there is less to mow .... Right?

well.... we shall see how the meeting goes ... I plan on calling a few of the "Restoration" companies and have them out in April or so for quotes ... we are still a pretty new HOA and do not have a lot of funds set aside yet.

Now, when you said we'd still need grass to help with the erosion.... what types of grasses? and i had read/heard that the wild flowers have really deep root systems to aid in erosion control.

I really appreciate all the info.

Terese

It depends on what type of erosion you have. If the top few inches of soil are slumping down the hill as a solid mass then deep rooted forbs and shrubs would help. Grass has fine, shallow roots that hold the surface together, better for sheet and small rill erosion.

I think it would look nice to have flowers and pathways instead of lawn but some people thing the world needs to look like a golf course.

on the front pond and i believe Out Lot B ... the builder put in that greenish 2-3" piping for water / sump pump drainage.
so that water had eroded 4-6" + crevasses

if small kids were walking back there... they would for sure fall in and twist an ankle. Pond C, by me, has more wear erosion ... some of the earth is moving... but not deep crecasses .... [I know I have a photo somewhere of the erosion on Lot A.]

We had the guy from the Nature Center out ... and he was saying that he was surprised that the builder was allowed to add those drain pipes... any one would see the problems that would cause...

here is the image i mentioned before... in the middle you can see the greenish pipe sticking out of the ground.

and this was summer of 07, so the damage is much worse now.

The people at Pizzo and Associates may be able to help you. Restoration of wetlands is one of their specialties. I've seen their operation in DeKalb County. They are really into their work. http://pizzo.info/

Also Ken Robertson at the Illinois Natural History Survey is a font of knowledge when it comes to Illinois native plants. He's really quick with responses to emailed questions too. http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/~kenr/home.html

yes,,, we actually had Pizzo out and they gave us a quote... that was in 2007.
we are going to call them again to update that quote and see what the numbers are.

at first a 51k quote over 3 years seemed quite high... but that also included regrading those outlots ... which we may not have to do.

thanks for the link for Robertson -- i'm checking it out now.

John Hilty is another one who may be able to help you. He also responds to questions quickly. He used a couple of my seed drawings on his website. His email address is listed on the website.

http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/wetland/wetland_index.htm

a lil update.... we voted to keep our dues the same and the extra monies will go for the common areas.
As it turns out... since we have a 'failed' mitigated wetland... all we 'legally' have to do is keep it clean... meaning, clean up after the neighbors that let garbage blow back there.

I'd still like to do the high mow to keep it looking cleaner.

I'm still waiting to hear from the one company i Emailed... i should probably just call them.

I'm meeting the a guy from Tallgrass this afternoon ... not sure what sort of "feel" he will get with the land in question under 2 feet of snow...

When i get the quote back... we shall see if we have enough in the "Reserves" for a fall Burn, or have to wait until 2010.

I'm sure he will have some great ideas...

how long has your development been finished ?????? the builder may still be responsible to come and fix the pipe and the erosion you should not have to pay to fix his mess lol

the builder turned it over to use in 2005 i think.... i'd have to check my notes.
they were responsible for 5 yrs ... and i'm thinking that was 2000-2005, though they did not break ground in the subdivision until May 2001.... though i do believe all the ground work was done.

I guess that is something i can ask.

when i was out there trudging thru the snow with the guy from Tallgrass... we were able to locate some massive erosion problems from the sump-pump drainage pipes. HUGE holes....

What this guy had to say sounds really promising... though i need to wait for the quote to see what we end up doing.

To show the restoration guy what our property looks like, since you really can't get a feel for it under 2+ feet of snow... i created a quick web page with images.... here it is if any one wanted to view the areas.
http://www.cloverridgeofitasca.com/restoration.htm

he is responsible for a certain amount of time from the day he finished not started and some things are warrantied for one year and some for longer check the paperwork since usually the final grading is the last thing done it may still be covered and even after sometimes you can get the township to go after him for bad faith when things are not done right.

gotcha... thanks for that info... I'll check with the village too ... because anyone in their right mind could see that this would happen.

also since now that it is transfered the township maybe partially responsible for the ponds ????? inform yourself before spending any money

>>township maybe partially responsible for the ponds ?????

wouldnt that be nice... but nope. Throughout the village, there are a few subdivisions that have common areas... someone was crazy enough to approach the village to see if they were like to take them all over... with tightening budgets, no one wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

>>inform yourself before spending any money
Yes, we already have, and we are on our own.

a few years ago, the Village had a program, sort of like a lecture -- where various people/companies came out and gave presentations... since it was an 8 hour day, me and one other gal split the day... that is how we learned about a lot of the stuff we would like to do.

It was all about wet lands, water conservation, and the sort of things that these "restoration" companies do ... from this, this is why we got our 'ball rolling' -- though it took a major flood to get our President on board.

the pic you took or the erosion is it worse now and is there others like it you may have grounds to go after the building in court, you would have to get an engineer to look and see if he was negligant in his work and on the grading it may not be at code which then you may get help from the township to go after the builder so start asking around if anyone know a civil engineer that would give you a report on the ponds

oh yes, it is much worse - from what we found yesterday.
we [me and the Tallgrass guy] were out trudgin thru the snow... 2feet or so of it, and i could see the damage because the 'heat' of the water that rushes out, melted all the snow above it... so it was easy to locate.
The "Guy" moved all the snow away so he could see the ground and the damage, and the holes were enormous.

Once the snow melts, I will get better images of the erosion.

Plus, from what i have heard... those greenish pipes shooting out of the ground -- well, the landscapers have hit them with the mower, so the edges are now jagged.

Our main concern as a HOA is kids getting hurt. And that is a definite area it cam happen ... though i do believe that the kids around that area are small enough that they would not be out with out parents ... as with the water there, the parents would be worried about drownings.... but kids will be kids and wander off.

I really appreciate all of your input.

it maybe that he did not put the pipes deep enough that is what my husband told me last night and he is a civil engineer

over the weekend, the 2' of snow we had - melted.

I took a lot of photos of the erosion and the one area we are having cleaned up next week.....

the photos do not do it justice. some "sink holes" go down 8-12 inches
and i do believe there are 5-6 home that expel their sump pump pits this way.

really did a number on the slope.

we had a meeting yesterday and i told them that we should contact the village to see who approved this 'mess' and see if anyone can be held partly responsible for the expense.

anyone in their right mind [OK, any idiot] could see that this sort of damage would be caused.

The guy from Tallgrass is coming out tomorrow to access the damage to see how they can correct it, and how much it's gonna cost us.

**Edited

I forgot to add... in the images you can see where the green pipes came out, and have been all chewed up by the lawnmowers... so now all those edges are jagged.

This message was edited Feb 9, 2009 6:39 PM

The quote for fixing the erosion problem around those green sump pump pipes is 2k.
The likelihood we could get any thing from the builder is slim to none, but i mentioned to the Pres of the HOA - that even though this was not done correctly - he should contact the Builder and the Village -- as they approved it.

The total quote for the work on OutLot A is $9,100
now sure how that is gonna fly with the 'members'. but we shall see.

We are waiting on a quote from Pizzo still - but the way they did their quote on `07 was, as a whole, not broken down in to the various areas.

Wow, Terese, that's a pretty spendy problem. Sorry you're having so much trouble with it. What are they going to do with those pipes? It seems like any time you discharge water onto a slope it's going to erode like that, unless they add some kind of geotextile or rocks.

the plan is to bury it, and bring it out farther down the slope, close to the water line... the finished product should look something like this
http://www.tallgrassrestoration.com/services_shoreline.html
but with plants 'into' the water... grasses and the sort.

TCS, you should tell the current HOA Pres that HE can mow around the edge of the pond.
I was helping a friend years back and heard a muffled yelp from the backyard. The mower hit a slick spot and flipped into the water. Luckily it only pinned his leg and he was still able to breathe.
If the cattails can be controlled, it'd be a great spot for water lilies. The cardinal flower, Lobelia cardinalis is a colorful native.
Has anyone checked for carnivorous plants growing there?

Just an update..... we are finally getting the work done. We tried one company to do a small job and had a terrible experience.... Pizzo and Assoc was just too expensive .... it looks like we can get all the work done for $33k

I do believe that includes 2 burns, 3 yrs apart and a 3 yr maintenance contract.

I'm quite pleased ... i just hope in the two yrs time it looks like a nice wild prairie.

Mona -- if you are still following this, regarding the Builder... I heard they went bankrupt this past year...so that is dead in the water. And we asked the Building Dept how the builder got away with putting nothing under the sump pump pipes... I guess in the plans they were to put those concrete "splash" things for under downspouts... what a hair brained idea... and the village approved it...

anyhoo... the ball is rolling and hopefully they will begin work just after the 4th weekend.

thanks to all of you who gave me input.

Terese