I'm looking at David Liddle's catalog and some of the hoyas are written as Hoya cv. "Gold Star" or Hoya aff. sussuela.
does cv stand for cultivar? how do you know the species if they're just referred to as Hoya cv. "cultivar name"?
what does aff. stand for?
Eliz
Newbie Question
Hi Eliz. Yes, cv = cultivar; aff = affinis, which means it is similar to the plant named. (Not to be confused with the plant Hoya affinis, which is another story altogether and I'm sure was just thrown in to confuse us.)
As for cv and your question "how do you know the species if they're just referred to as Hoya cv. "cultivar name"? I don't know. It's early in the day though, and I'm sure someone will pop up who knows the answer.
Seems to me I'd better get a hold of David Liddle's catalogue too....
Christine
=) Thank you for the info Christine =). Would you like me to send you the catalog?? It's 2008, sent by another DG member..
That's a good question!!
For instance, I have Hoya cv. "sunrise"...what kind of a Hoya is it then?
HI - let's see if I can clear this up. These 'rules' are not mine, nor have they 'evolved'. The 'rules' are known as The Code of Botanical Nomenclature (if I remember correctly) and it is a list of rules and etiquette set down so that everyone can be on the same page and understand what a plant is by the words and by the fact that it is capitolized or not/if single quotes are used or not etc.
There are Species (sp.) hoyas and there are Cultivars (cv). Species are those collected in the wild, in their natural growing habitats and it essentially means that it is its' 'own self' without the aid of man nor of cultivation.
When the plant is not identified (matched to a previous publication) nor published, it is given a temporary moniker, i.e. Hoya sp. IML 9999....which translates to: it is a HOYA, it is a SPECIES hoya and it is from David Liddle (IML) and his ID# is 9999. It could also be called H. sp. Bogor which translates to: H=it is a Hoya, it is a SPECIES and it was found/from Bogor.
A Cultivar is a plant that is found in/produced in/created in cultivation. The name would be something like Hoya cv. 'Sunrise'. The plants which crossed to make this cultivar are not mentioned...and the information to find out what they are should be carried with the name during sales/trades/gifting of a plant.
The word 'aff.' infront of a name...like H. aff. albiflora means that it is similar to albiflora but it is NOT albiflora. This is why it is SO important to have the names of your hoyas correct...to not drop the "aff." or the "cft" (compares favorably to...) when writing the name of your hoya. If you cannot read the writing on the tag...look it up. There are tons of references available and the correct one is IPNI. If the name is not in IPNI it is wrong or does not exist. Dealers and even novices make up names all the time...don't fall for it.
Hope this clears up some questions. I have stopped asking 'why' and I just do it...there are people before us who have tried to make things easier and more uniform...best to go along as best you can.
Carol,
What GREAT information,Thank you so much for posting it! I am printing it out for my file but would it be possible to have that as a "STICKY? Is there someone in particular to contact about including it? It sure would be an asset to have it included in the stickies with all the other great information!
Thanks again,
Lin
Sure, Lin...here is more information to add to it....and I will put it all together and send it to Dave to add to the Stickys or make a new one.
....Because of the great difference between cultivars and species (and the need to keep their identity intact, The Code makes every effort to differentiate between them so there is no mistaking which is a species and which is a cultivar when a name is seen or written. Species names are ALL written: Hoya carnosa...the species name is written all (ALL) lower case and Hoya is written with Initial UC. The word "hoya" is always written lower case when referring to hoyas in general, but it is written with initial uc when you are speaking of the genus Hoya or a specific hoya. If you see a name written Hoya xxxxxx you KNOW you are reading about a species hoya.
Cultivars also have their own identifiers. They are written Hoya cv. Red Buttons, OR Hoya 'Red Buttons'. NOTE: with "cv." in the name the name is initial uc'd but if the 'cv.' is left off, single quotes are used around the name which is written also with initial upper case.
Let's say I have a seedling from a cross I make between H. carnosa and H. fungii and I have a big tray of them to grow out and I give you one. This plant would be labeled: H. cv. H. carnosa X H. fungii. If I were really organized, I would number all the seedlings I give away. This seedling does NOT have a name other than Hoya cv. H. carnosa x H. fungii until someone publishes it as a cultivar.
The only real reason to publish a cultivar is if that product is unique in some way, an improvement over both parents say. Like H. 'Ruthie' (H. cv. MM X H. sussuela). This cross was made because Ed Gilding (who made the cross) wanted the good blooming qualities of H. cv. MM (yellow) and the pretty shape of H. sussuela. He succeeded. I have a number of 'Ruthii's' siblings, but they don't come close to 'Ruthie'. It is quite irresponsible to grow out seedlings and then give them away under a specific name that is not legal or to just flood the market with them. There were a number of hoyas running around with different names, all cultivars, which I published to legitimize them.
Actually, NOT having a name on a species hoya is my favorite! I love them as they are invariably different...and not as much is known about them as the other published hoyas. They often just reflect the grower or where they were found in their name.
(BTW - this is true for ALL plants, not just Hoyas).
Great info. Carol!
How does one find the parent plants when dealing with a "cv"? Sometimes it would really help when taking growing conditions into consideration. Like my cv 'sunrise'.
Carol, Thanks so much for the education! I for one, really appreciate it and I'm so glad you are going to ask Dave to add it to the stickies!
There is no 'central casting' for cultivars, that I know about. On the msn forum I think ms. burton listed them...but I don't follow it. You might check.
H. cv. Sunrise is a cross between H. lacunosa x H. obscura. I actually published it...the only reason I know. On my website i list the parents of cultivars I have...
hehehe...I was evicted from that forum ages ago for speaking my mind one time. She once asked us why nobody posted, and I told her...bluntly!!
Yup...that's the forum! The information and posts are all available. They have moved their venue and I haven't followed...but the information and posts are still there. HoyasRus.com
There is one other time that "aff." is used which has a different meaning: it is sometimes used to denote another clone of the same hoya but one which looks a bit different. There is an aff. anulata which has bigger leaves than H. anulata but both, actually are the same hoya. There is an aff. subcalva which has much deeper colored flowers than the other subcalva sold by David Liddle...both are sold by him. Esentially the meaning IS the same as it is simpled not published as anything else and it resembled VERY VERY closely the species.
Why cant they depict these aff. species ( the lats descibed aff.n) in a different way if they are the same species ?.....This is very confusing. Would it not simply be better to describe said aff. anulata as either H anulata type 'B'...or H anulata ( type oblongata) ( or such) making it certain that this is indeed the same Hoya...just a variation of it, and not some unidentified species the world will wait another 100 years to name..and be done with it ?
This message was edited Jan 12, 2009 9:31 AM
Actually, isnt there a way of describing a plant ie Hoya Imperialis var.Rauchii ? Why isnt this used say to describe the H anulata you mentioned. Hoya anulata var. Sarawak ( or wherever it was discovered, or by whom ) Wouldnt that be so much clearer that it is the same species, and not going to be another someone might not have yet named, which aff. can lead someone to think?
I think you can depict the affinis hoyas by way of genetic markers - which of course means that you have to shell out money. I don't think it's safe to assume that H. aff. anulata is just a variation of H. anulata and that they are related (which means there's a divergence at some time in the phylogenic tree) - unless this was already proven.
Much debates about phylogenies - just like with the origins and relatedness of monkeys, apes and humans. This is also very controversial because the diverging lines of gorillas and of chimpanzees can be of three possible ways. Their evolution can be organized according to function and use, genetics and homology of physical traits. heck I'll stop talking about monkeys because THIS is the hoya forum lol. - just trying to say nomenclature of anything is not static lol.
Thank you for your input, lots to learn =). I was just reading the very first issue of Stemma Journal and noticed that they write like this:
Hoya sp. IML 9999
..which was explained by Carol. I didn't understand this before, but this is like a citation for like writting journals but only this time it's for hoyas! ...I think it's pretty cool =).
couple more questions.....
Hoya sp., are they published or not? When do you/can you publish a hoya? Where do you find the list of published hoyas?
which one comes first when naming? aff. cv/sp? (would it be Hoya aff. cv. Red Buttons OR Hoya cv. aff. Red Buttons?)
Could you have something like this? Hoya sp. aff. cv Red Buttons or Hoya cv. aff. sp. IML 999 ?
When does subspecies, ssp. come into play? When are you allowed to use it?
srry I know I'm such a bugger T_T
Eliz
OK..things haven't been done because they haven't been done. In order to change The Code you have no luck at all...it is done. In order to change a way a hoya is written up, you have to publish it. THAT is not easy and not for the feint hearted.
When a hoya is written Hoya sp. XXXX that means it has not been described and published.
You would write: H. aff. cv. Red Buttons (it is a hoya, like the cultivar Red Buttons). The other does not make sense.
You are allowed to use subsp./var. etc. when the plant has been published as such.
You can look up published plants in IPNI. I will look for a link but I think others have it....
I just noted that the IPNI address is in the Sticky at the very top of this thread. Gee, I hope people are reading it...
This message was edited Jan 12, 2009 3:04 PM