Bottom watering container vegetables

When I lived in Louisiana, almost 20 years ago, I experimented in growing vegetables in one gallon containers watered from the bottom. This is an easy experiment to try.

I made a 4x8 ft bed on a flat section of ground (we had lots of flat ground in Louisiana) by laying two by fours on the ground flat side down. Dont connect the 2x4's together. I covered the whole bed with some cheap black plastic folded to twice its thickness. I could run water in there from a hose and have a water bed one and a half inches deep. To drain the bed, all I had to do was move one of the 2x4's at one of the corners far enough, about 2 to 3 inches, and the water would drain out.

The one gallon pots were probably a poor choice, larger would have been better, but that was what I had on hand. I had 20 pots planted with little Red Robbin tomatos. They make small plants and the one inch diameter tomato's form in the top middle of of the plant, easy to see and pick, and no foliage trailing in the water bed. I also had 6 bush cucumbers and six bush squash. I would guide the squash and cucumber foliage to grow over the side of the water bed so nothing was trailing in the water.

When it was raining, which it often does in Louisiana,:), I would leave the 2x4 dam at one end of the grow bed open so no water was collected. When not raining, I would close the dam, and water. I was kind of flying by the seat of my pants, not knowing for sure what I was doing and what the results would be. Everything was by guess and by gosh, nothing scientific. I would stick my finger in the pots and if it seemed like they needed water, I would put some in the water bed. It got to where you could see how fast the pots were taking up the water and judge how much they needed. If they weren't taking up too much very fast, I would open the dam and drain the bed. If I was away from home for a couple of days and came back to water those plants, I swear you could hear them slurping and the water would recede quickly. I had fertilizer added to the water.

The dirt in those pots was a mixture of just plain dirt and pine bark mix but it did work for quite awhile. That one bed got to pumping out tomato's, cucumbers and squash so fast we couldn't eat them all and the neighbors got irritated with me trying to peddle free veges everyday. They would see me coming and just wave me away. The water bed produced good for quite awhile but the squash borers finally done in the squash and the little red robin tomatoes began to split because I messed up and overwatered them. I cut back on water and saved them for the rest of the season.

Next summer, I wont to build a little water bed on top of a 30x72 inch long table and try the bottom watering system again. I know it works but needs some fine tuning on my part.

I have just grown daylilies in waterbeds, they do really well, I grow only in a soiless mix however. Im using as much coconut coir this year as I can afford.

Do you let the daylillies set in water all the time or just water them as needed. Also, will daylillies grow well in one gallon containers, one bulb to a pot. And how often would you divide and repot? Now that I have a fence tall enough to keep out the deer, I would like to try some daylillies, not the expensive kind, just common daylillies. They are all pretty. Where can I purchase common bulbs cheap? 'preciate any info you can give me.

Jaywhacker: Do you have pics of this garden? I would like to see them if you do?
joy112854

Joy, that garden I described was about 20 years ago. Just boards laid on the ground, plastic stretched over that to hold the water and moving one of the boards would let the water drain. Speaking of pictures, Im trying to learn how to post pictures on this forum and cant find any information on that but will get it figured out and will be able to post some pics of some of my experiments in the future.

On second thought........I will bet you wonted to see a pic of gardenglory's daylilly water bed and mistakenly typed my name instead. I would like to see that myself.

Jaywhacker: No, I wanted to see your pics, you mean you just layed boards down and then layed double folded plastic over the boards for holding water in? I'm lost here? A self watering raised garden bed would be a fabulous idea if someone could come up with it.
joy112854

Nope..no more waterbed for me. But I do know some of the big daylily hybridzers are still doing it. And yes...you just line some boards and put plastic down...or just set them in kiddy pools for that matter. Problem is, in a suburban back yard...it just gets to be too much, and too tacky. lol
The daylilies love it tho, they dont much like top watering, and strongly rebell with rot if they are not good and settled in.

JW..head on over to the daylily forum, there are a couple good stickies there that will help a little. Its a little slow on the forum, but we are all still over dreaming of the spring..especially since its seed planting time. You are WAY ahead of the came with that fence to keep the deer out. Altho it is not a problem here, my poor daylily friends up north gets hundres of $$$ of them eaten every year.

In the spring, Im sure you can find some floks willg to share some daylily fans. They are not bulbs, but grow pretty much like asparagus, roots shooting out from a grown, each being a fan. If you notice when looking, they are usually listed as DF or SF for double or single fan. Here is our playground...so many, its good to get an idea of what you like.

http://daylily.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?dispdl

Thanks for the daylilly info. And yes, this 6 ft high cedar privacy fence has broadened my gardening possibilities as far as keeping the deer out. They can jump a fence that high but usually dont because they cant see whats on the other side.

And Joy, any kind of container can be used to bottom water potted plants. Boards on the ground covered with plastic is just a quick, cheap, and easy way to construct a water bed if you have a section of flat ground. Here in the Texas Hill Country, a piece of flat ground without protrudiing rocks is hard to find and forget about digging out a flat area as you will quickly encounter a 200 pound boulder an inch or so under the surface of the ground. But Florida, like Louisiana, should have lots of flat ground and easy to do a little digging to create a flat area. It is so low on the ground that it is not an eyesore to any sorehead neighbors you may have You could make a small one on your patio or driveway to experiment with, some short pieces of board or sticks and a trash bag will do the trick. Plants really like bottom watering rather than getting their foliage wet from top watering all the time but the grow mix needs to be the kind that will suck up the water from the bottom for it to work best. It is not self watering........you giveth, and you taketh away.....as far as the water is concerned. You need to to be able to drain excess water from the bed and to keep the drain open when it is raining. You will quickly learn to judge about how much water to put in the bed, depending on weather, wind, size of plants, etc. More of that by guess and by gosh technique, you look at the plant and say, "I guess by gosh it needs about this much water today." You can use water soluable fertilizer in the water bed.

If you try any of this, remember to "flush" your container plants at least once a week with a good long shot of just plain water from the top of the pot to clear out accumulated fertilizer salts.

Yes, got lots of flat land here in Florida, and my neighbors won't even get a glimpse of it, I have a 6 ft privacy wooden fence all round my back yard, it's built so close to the ground, you have to come through the house to access it, cause the gates won't open. LOL Keeps the bunnies and everything else out that want to eat my vittles.
joy112854

I grow everything in waterbeds. Mine are permanent and don't require level ground. I've used them for flowers since spring 2006. Last year I tried vegetables and to tell the truth I'd not want to go back to growing tomatoes and peppers in the soil. I don't drain my beds like Jay does and the constant water supply practically stops blossom end rot and cracking. I always heard peppers didn't need a lot of rain but I can assure you that they thrived like never before.

Right now I have onions, radishes, broccoli, cabbage, cilantro, mesclun mix and garlic all doing very well. In a couple weeks it will be time to plant potatoes.

I garden from a wheelchair and this is the only satisfactory method I've found. It works well year round in my zone 8b but would do very well anywhere else on a seasonal basis. Here's a thread about how I do it which is the same idea as Jay's.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/926516/

Twiggy buds: This might sound like some stupid questions but here goes: do the pots have holes in the bottom for the water to travel up the pot? Do you have problems with skeeters doing this, as I know they love standing water. You mentioned moles? Does this type of garden attract them or were they around to start with, that is a real problem to deal with from what I understand, they love slugs and snails, so want to make sure I get no slugs and snails to draw them to my yard.
joy112854

No joy there are no stupid questions. The pots I use are regular commercial black plastic pots the same as you find at nurseries and garden centers when you buy plants. They have 3 or 4 holes around the edges and 1 in the center. I couldn't afford lots of prettier ones.

The moles were a one time problem in 2007. This fall they tore up a lot in my front yard where there aren't any beds at all. So I think it was just a normal thing and had nothing specific to do with the beds. Some years I have them and others not.

I have lived here since 1985 and I have far less skeeters since I put in the beds. I always had lots before and blamed it on a drainage ditch that borders the back of my property. There are 2 possible reasons that I know of. I get duckweed in the beds that is a natural skeeter repellent. There's an article about it linked on the other thread.

The other reason is frogs and toads. They're both present year round. They both hatch millions of babies in the beds and hatch more than one batch or at different times. The toads burrow into the pots and also under the edges of the plastic. I don't know what the frogs do but some are always around when it's not real cold. There are also great numbers of lizards and dragon flies. They all eat skeeters.

I have all the normal insects but the only ones that have been a great problem are the squash borers and the tomatoes suffer from stink bugs and hornworms. I think the only natural cure for those is more birds and less cats.

I read thru all your posts on the waterbeds, Twiggy, and I will certainly be better prepared with the next water bed project. I think I will probably build more than one bed and as experience is gained I may shift the heavy slurpers to one bed and the slow sippers to another. Thanks for all the input.

Hey man, you're way ahead of me, 20 years. I think your original depth with the 2X4s is about right for 1 gallon pots. My vegs are in larger 2, 3 and 5 gallons which are all about a foot tall. They don't mind 4" of water.

Do try some cukes in the water beds. They don't get bitter.

I did have cukes.......plus small tomato's and squash in the water bed. The cukes did great but the squash was what was really amazing. One day a flower, next day a squash! Well.........Im stretching it a little bit......but not much. It may be a good thing the squash borers got to those squash's or I might have had a monster on my hands.

How does this jive with what I've read stating that plants don't like their roots in standing water.

Gymgirl, no hands on experience here but what I am reading is the roots don't actually "stand" in water. There are so many pots crammed into these beds that the soil sucks the moisture up into the pots, providing continuous even moisture levels. The beds only need filling on a regular schedule or as needed.

Have you noticed this same setup is used by the Wmart and other box stores in early spring, summer? They will build these types of beds out on the blistering hot asphalt parking lots and reduce man hours by filling each bed with water rather than have employees water each individual pot. I think it is doable for me and may have real answers or questions next year at this time... pod

The dont like sitting in water if its so deep it gets up around the crown of the plants. As stated above, it just makes it so the soil stays moist without rotting the top. Just a couple of inches will do

Thanks! I'm gonna try this with my patio containers as water them all has become quite a chore in the heat of summer.

Twiggybuds: Ok, it sounds great, and doesn't cost as much as an above ground garden would cost, those things are pretty steep aren't they? I'm late replying as my DSL was out last night. LOL I'm back online now though. Those pots you are talking about? I get them from everyone so I don't have to buy any myself. LOL
joy112854

Gymgirl I agree! Keeping everything watered is a real chore when it is sweltering that was part of the appeal. The other part for me it the end results with tomatoes. I have been guilty of uneven watering and it showed in the quality of the tomatoes. As Joy said, the price is right on alot of the set up for this.

A word of caution....any potting mix that is high in peat may hold too much water. You don't need any expensive mix, water crystals or anything complicated whatsoever. I use the cheapest stuff I can find which was composted cow manure and potting soil from WM at $1.38 per sack last summer. They both contain sand and drain well. You can use any kind of fertilizer as well.

Please keep an eye on young plants until they have had a chance to reach down to the wet zone. The top half of the pots will get quite dry between rains and you will have to top water some. I'd feel awful if you lost your plants thinking the whole pot stays wet.

Twiggybuds: I noticed what you said about the mix that is high in peat, as I had a horrible experience with the peat pellets, I wonder how the coconut coir would work? I know I'm not using peat pellets for starting my seedlings in anymore.
joy112854

I'm dangerous with peat, everything dies.

I have not had the pleasure of trying coir so can't say. I am thinking of trying some for starting seeds since everyone is raving about it being so good.

Honestly, don't waste $ on anything special for these water beds. Try the cheap stuff first and then once you get used to it, maybe you can experiment and come back and teach us all something new. It would also be a good idea to use plants you have grown in the past and that are familiar to you so you can easily judge how well it works for you.

The big concerns are how much fertilizer and the necessity for well draining soil. Last year half of June and all of July were the wettest I can remember with showers everyday. I think it flushed my fertilizer out very fast but nothing suffered from too much water. I made one bed too deep and used a steak knife to stab the plastic a little lower. The one hole keeps the depth just right.

I just concluded a little experiment with the coir and seed starting.

The seeds started beuatifully in it, grew just as well as in the sponges. Things were going great until I transplanted. The seedlings are still alive, but they are leaning over and getting leggy. The sponges are champs at holding the seeling up till they have taken root.

I love the coir, I intend to use it exclusivly...if I can get it. Just not for seed transplanting.

For those who dont need the bigger sponges...and I know Joy has Hers. The park dollar store is selling for 14 bucks, the same 60 count domes set up that is on the regular parks website for 25 bucks. If you get two, the shipping is free. I had already ordered some refil spnges off the regular site, but I ordered 5, just to get the trays ( they fit perfect under the lights) and of course the blocks and sponges.

hi glory, can you post a link to this $14 dome ?

This message was edited Jan 3, 2009 8:57 AM

Altho you cant leave the seedlings in these as long, and they dont get near as big as you can get one in the bigger sponges. For my daylily seeds they are perfect. One of the advantages of FL is that you plant out early anyway, before the plants get that big.

http://www.dollarseedstore.com/product_info.php?products_id=115

lets see if this works without signing in

awesome, thanks for sharing that =) i just may have to try one this year....for the last two years i've used the peat pellets and/or just mixed my own stuff in small containers...so these sponges should do well for veggie plants ?

i had to create an account, it didn't recognize me from the parent site

I will admit this is the first year for me and veggies, well except peppers. Ive put a good 500 daylily seedlings to the test in the last two years. For me, they make all the differance. I would probably not start tomatoes in theses small ones...or I would just plant them out in a bigger pot before the EB. Everything else should be good to go. I have mainly used the 40 count sponges, then last year, financially, I had to switch to these little ones. You have to plant out sooner, as the seedling wont keep getting bigger and bigger, but in FL, I plant out anyway. Best part about the sponges is, even with a small seedling, the sponges hold them right there in place in the ground so they can get a good start.
If you find the sponges to small..or you one day want to try the bigger ones, you can buy the sponges just in the blocks, without the dome and the block will fit in this tray.

I did have excellent luck with some microscopic flower seeds someone sent. I just sprinkled them on top of the sponge. They, along with impatiens and things I just cant usually get to grow with those teeny seeds, they did great.

ok cool....i'll just need to wait a little longer before starting them...i would think pepper seeds would start just fine outdoors when it warms up...i have an ornamental in a container that drops it's pods every winter and then the seeds in it germinate in the same pot every spring, giving me many seedlings to do something with

Garden Glory: Day lilies are so pretty; but, they don't grow well where I am, they seem to wilt too much here from the heat. Now, I see why you would want that watered garden. LOL
joy112854

Bump!! Hey Twiggybuds! Just rediscovering this thread. Very timely. Am still scratching huge welts from my last visit outside with the mosquitoes and it isn't even summer yet. Your system sounds perfect for my yard but more mosquitoes laying eggs in all that water terrifies me! We have a plastic pond liner that would be excellent to put on the patio. Could I safely crumble up some Dunks for mosquito control? Also I have an nursery of sago palm babies in 10" and 14" pots that are a pain 2 keep watered. Could set up a pool way out back as they need lotsa space for the fronds. LMK ASAP please. We usta have frogs but not so many now. I've been seeing more lizards tho and we do have a share of mosquito hawks. Linda

Hey Linda. I think the water beds are great for everything...except maybe cactus and succulents. I don't know anything about Sagos but if they appreciate normal moisture like most plants do, they should thrive.

I'm not having skeeter problems. This year has been a bit strange in that the last frost was 03/02 and the days have been warm but the nights chilly or downright cold. Early on, I saw lots of frogs but now not so many. I've already seen more honey bees than in the past 2 years put together. Strange and I haven't figured it out yet. Duckweed has some anti mosquito properties and it gets rampant in the beds. It also traps nutrients and I scoop some and add it back to the pots for recycling.

I've got tomatoes, peppers, cukes, zukes all going very well. I just soaked some okra to plant today. The roses, lemon bushes, strawberries, brugs, lillies, daylilies and amaryllis are booming. My garlic and onions that overwintered are also doing great, potatoes. The roots of many of the tomatoes are running out the pot holes and free floating in the water.

Try it, you'll love how easy it is once you set it up. It's like hydroponics, earthboxes and raised beds, all in one.

Off topic but hope this helps some...

Mosquito Spray...Worth a try

I was at a deck party awhile back, and the bugs were having a ball biting everyone. A man at the party sprayed the lawn and deck floor with Listerine, and the little demons disappeared. The next year I filled a 4-ounce spray bottle and used it around my seat whenever I saw mosquitoes. And voila! That worked as well. It worked at a picnic where we sprayed the area around the food table, the children's swing area, and the standing water nearby. During the summer, I don't leave home without it.....Pass it on.

O wow...Im already getting eatin alive. We just bought a bunch more Cant wait to try. Does it matter what flavor

No, the flavor doesn't matter ;)