Information about growing mediums

Since we have been discussing the use of coir fibres in container gardening...........attached is a good article comparing various types of growing mediums.

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/kb/coconut-coir.html

WELL, if that doesn't say it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The winner: Coconut coir.

BocaBob

Well BocaBob, I wish you'd try to be a little more enthusiastic! I was happy to read this too as I have been attempting to learn as much as I can while there isn't any gardening going on here. Does coir work well in EBs? Devota

Sorry, I get carried away sometimes. The stuff is that great. In EB's you ask? I have 12 all with coconut coir in them.

BocaBob

How much coir does each EB hold? Tell me in dry terms please. Thanks

2 - 12lb blocks of dry coir fills 3 EB's with some extra.

Hey Bob............I spent these last few years experimenting and finally reached agreement with you about the coconut coir being a better overall mix. Did some experimenting with coir/peat mixes with good results but it is a little wetter mix than I like so added some perlite to make it drain better. Also found some 2 cu.ft bags of a landscape ground conditioning mix made by "Landscapers Pride" that consists of finely ground pine bark. The bark is ground so fine that none of the granules are more than about 1/4 inch in diameter. No wood chunks or slivers and almost no dirt in that mix and when mixed with coir, it looks like another good grow mix. I have a lot of containers filled with 1/3 landscapers mix, 1/3 peat, and 1/3 perlite that continues to do good after about two years but I can tell that the peat part of the mix is beginning to pack down and deteriate some. All of those mixes will eventually make some fine ground beds if they lose their usfulness in containers. I enjoy all the experimenting and the measurring and mixing and labor involved but it now looks like I can slowly replace all those containers with 5 gallon (and some smaller) coir grow pots with a lot less labor, less expense, and almost always assured chance of success. It is hard to beat a container mix that holds enough water but cannot be over-watered. I like the idea of adding some perlite to the coir also which improves drainage even more. I water every day anyway with diluted all purpose fertilizer so the plants can take what they need without being over fertilized and the excess drains off. I have gone as much as two days without watering without any noticable bad effects.

On the grow poles, similiar to your hydro-stackers, I changed things up this last year just to see if I could do it. I disconnected the automatic 3 times a day watering system with the hydroponic fertilizer and went to handwatering. The amount of water I put into the diffuser pot at the top of the pole varied depending how big the plants on the poles were plus how hot or windy the weather was. Only twice a day during the heat of the summer and back to once a day as it cooled off. I just put in enough water so some dripped out the bottom pot. For fertilizer, I would occassionaly throw about a half handful of slow release fertilizer pellets in the top diffuser pot and at least once a week or a little more often I would water with the miracle grow all purpose fertilizer contraption that you screw on to the end of a water hose. Nothing beats that hydroponic type of fertilizer but the poles did fine with my experimental system. One pole with Zinnias and another with three tomato plants got so big they were acting as windsails and this Texas wind almost ripped the poles from their foundation. Had to prop them up. Ive still got one pole out there loaded down with Calundula's (pot marigolds) just blooming their little hearts out right now. This aint Florida but lots of stuff grows through the winter here. Got another pole loaded down with Sweet Williams, no blooms, but one tri-color daisy on that same pole is producing a few blooms. Two more poles out there are just a solid mass of sweet peas. Im thinking they will grow on through the winter and bloom in the spring. If not, what the heck, I tried. If they bloom, its gonna smell sweet around here. Got about 30 more pots of sweet peas sitting along the inside of a 6 foot high cedar fence and they are starting to climb the fence. I like fragrant plants and if all that stuff survives the winter and blooms we will be calling this place "stinky" acres. Guess that better than "scabby" acres which is what my son called it the year I went nuts and grew a lot of scabiosa.

I love those grow poles. I have a 4x4 foot base built with a grow pole mounted on each corner. With 20 plants on each pole, that makes 80 plants I can grow in that area. Plus......sitting in the middle of the base, I have 4 stack-a-pot vertical grow systems with another 36 plant sites. That makes 116 plants that can be grown in a 4x4 foot area. Allowing for outward growth of the plants of course and depending on the size of plants grown, that would expand to at least 6x6 ft area though. For anyone interested in the poles and some pictures of what you can grow on them, google up www.theezgro.com. Also check Bobs pictures of his grow pole system.

What I meant to say, before I got so gabby, was that if you are into container gardening..........get mixed up with some coir. It will be the core of your growing system.:)

WELL SAID !!

BocaBob

I bought one EzGro tower last year and like it better than the Hydro-Stacker because it'd more durable and cheaper!!

BocaBob

I don't know if you can call them box gardens but I grow veggies in trays 2 ft by 3 ft by 8 inches deep. I use a mix of pine bark fines which I buy by the yard at the local lumber mill and compost which I also buy by the yard at the local wood resource recovery facility. Sometimes I add perlite but the pine bark is so well drained it really isn't necessary. My best mix so far is 3 parts pine bark fines to 2 parts compost. It is a nice compromise between drainage and absorbency. But it all becomes muck after about six months so I have to dump it in the garden then and mix new medium after I harvest the veggies. For fertilizer I use aged coffee grounds (for nitrogen), colloidal phosphate (for phosphorus), greensand (for potassium), dolomite (for calcium and magnesium) and Ozmocote at 1/4 to 1/2 the recommended value (for "just in case"). If the pine bark fines are very fresh I will add some urea or ammonium nitrate to it in the pile to get it a bit broken down before adding it in the mix or I will add the urea or ammonium nitrate to the mix if I can wait a bit before planting in it.

The thread at http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/719569/ suggests that the pine bark fines alone with a tad of peat moss and controlled release fertilizers is the best for drainage and a long lasting medium. But I'm not convinced yet it is best for vegetables or other short lived annuals. It probably is the best mix if you have a fertilizer injector and liquid fertilizer since with all that pine bark there is no time during the growing season that drainage becomes an issue.

Dan

Bob I plan on buying coconut coir from you....what brand/type fertilizer should I use to similate what Grow box sells? Something that perfect for all veggies? Or should I use tomato fertilizer for tomatoes? Also, where on earth can I locally buy the same dolamite that the earth box comes with? Thanks hon...

Espoma's Garden Lime seems to be the dolimite of choice. You can order it on line or many stores like Home Depot carry it. I sell in the marketplace a great commericial fertilizer that is complete with all nutrients except it calls for Epsom Salt (cheap, buy it anywhere) in addition. It's made for all vegetables. Pound for pound, it's much cheaper than lets say Miracle Gro. But, good old 10-10-10 with Garden Lime will give you fine results.

BocaBob

Thank you BocaBob! If so many use the Espoma lime it sounds proven, but I noticed it's pellitized, and it seems like I read somewhere in my searches that the pelletized doesn't break down the same as what the EB comes with, the powdered? I must be wrong, I researched too many things this weekend and am getting confused. You say you have to add Epsom Salt on top of the Espoma lime? Do you just measure out 16 oz. like the amount EB uses? Sorry dear, I'm a complete veggie newb although a longtime gardener and I just want to get it right. I'm also obsessive-compulsive and a perfectionist so I have to, hahaha!

Karen--You almost got it right. The Epsom Salt is added to MY fertilizer to make it complete. The manufacturer of my fertilizer doesn't add the Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate) because #1- its cheap and readily available and #2 it absorbs moisture too easily.

BocaBob

I just found out a local store sells Coconut Fiber in 1 cubic foot bags for $9.95. Is that the same thing as coir? and is it a good deal? How many earth boxes would that fill I wonder......

Karen, first check if it is "fiber" as in real fiber, long strands used for something totally different than gardening. Second, if they call it fiber ,but is really the coir then you are ok. But remember, if it is coming in a bag, then its already hydrated and you are paying for water. For example: my 5kg block of coco coir is $9.95 and is compressed. When hydrated, it make almost 3 cubic feet ( 75 quarts), over 50 lbs of hydrated coir.

BocaBob

Thanks BocaBob....I trust you, so I just placed an order with you for 4 blocks of the coir, that will fill 6 boxes, correct? Can't wait to try out your seed starter tray too! ☺

I just tried to figure our freight rates on the UPS forum and aint smart enough to make it work for me. I do know that it can vary depending on not only total weight but also dimensions and what type of material it is listed at. They give you a choice of selecting what type of stuff you are shipping, no growing mix listed, and the closest listed thing I could find on the list was "lawn equipment" and they automatically listed it as a lawn mower. Yeah, right, good luck with freight rates on that one. This gives UPS a lot of leeway on freight rates plus it can vary accordance to how the local UPS clerk fills out his paperwork. The last coir gro-bags I ordered came in three boxes, one larger and 2 smaller ones. Would it have cost more if it all came in one box? I dont know. Might have cost less, who knows. I remember a few years ago, I ordered EZgro vertical growing systems and the EZ gro people saved me some freight costs by mailing them as seperate kits mailed on different days. That leads me to believe that UPS might like smaller easily handled packages and gives some on the freight rate........but I dont swear to that..A few months ago, I was going to buy 5 new and different vertical growing systems called Stack and Grow. I punched all info into the computer and ordered them and BLAM!! The freight cost about the same as the items. I cancelled before they were shipped and the man on the phone said he could ship them to me one at a time and it would be much cheaper but I still canceled.

Bob, Im sure you are checking out all this stuff. Is it possible that you could package smaller boxes of coir material and cut down on freight rates, maybe shipped on seperate days also.

It is true if you ship smaller weight and size it is cheaper. UPS has big bumps in price as certain size and weight increase.. I try to break up bigger orders as a rule. I have a very special relationship with my UPS store near me and we bundle a price check different configurations almost every time I quote someone. I'm looking for the CHEAPEST cost to ship. That's good business. I haven't checked on shipping seperate days, but I will

BocaBob

I was thinking of seperate days and maybe seperate shipments so they dont "bundle" more than one box together and consider it as a larger shipment at a higher rate.

I go through every quote and shipment process for every inquiry and order. My UPS guy does not bundle any orders of mine. When I divide a order in more than one box, it's a totally separate shipment. I'm sure of that.

BocaBob

BocaBob, I am looking forward to my shipment. Now if the dog will just let the UPS guy up on the front porch... Devota

I will be checking in for some more coir later on and that new planter with the net pots really looks like a winner. Makes me wonder why someone didnt think of that before. Ive got lots of other starting systems other than the stob and jug system but I just got to get one of those little net pot jobby's. I like the idea of starting seeds in the same mix as they are going to be transplanted into. They should just take right off without any transplant shock from having to acclimate themselfs to a different grow mix. I have had some transplants roots just try to stay in their own original germination plug rather than spread out through their new grow mix. Has anyone else had this happen? Because of that, it is often best to score the sides of a transplants root ball and loosen up the roots so they will grow into their new soil mix better. Startiing seed in coir and transplanting in the same coir mix should almost eliminate any transplanting shock.