I got a catalogue in the mail from www.GreenhouseCatalog.com and was flipping through it and guess what I saw? Not only are they selling Earthboxes; but, they are also advertising a few things of interest here. A coir seed starting kit, you get 50 dried and compressed pellets in a secure fine mesh and a 11" x 21" tray and humidity dome. Or you can go a step further and get a hot house and heat mat one, which comes with a 9" x 19" x 5" heat mat and a 6" humidity dome, an 11" x 22" watertight base tray adn 72 cell seedling inserts with growing instructions and tips. The cell seedlings inserts are coconut coir.
Coconut coir is the rave I see.?
joy112854
Coconut coir pellets now?
Joy,
I responded to your last posting on the other thread so you have answered my question here. This is the one tray heating mat. Check the price for that on the Co-op and see if you don't come out ahead buying that there and the other things separately from Greenhouse. There is no shipping charge on the Co-op price so that makes a big difference. In fact you can probably buy the 2 tray mat for what the Greenhouse Catalog charges for the one tray mat since their shipping charges really add to the price! Good luck.
Gardadore: Wow, thanks, no, I didn't know that will check it out now.
joy112854
Gardadore: So how do I get to the co-op? I can't seem to figure it out, it's not Dave's Market place is it?
joy112854
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/groupbuy/all/
its a seperate forum.
Garden Glory: Thanks I found it.
joy112854
Joy,
Just be sure to PHONE in your order as they recommend in order to get the discount! Tell them you are ordering as a member of Dave's Garden. I had a little problem because the girl I talked to didn't know about the Co-op but that has all been straightened out so it should go smoothly now. The discount is only a dollar but the free shipping is the true bonus here. Best deal on the Internet for this product!
Good luck!
Jessica
Gardadore: Yeah, I have been searching for a heating mat and they seem so high everywhere. The thing is this set-up comes with it but it's only $49 for the complete set up, now the Parks' one, the bio-dome with heating mat and thermostat is like $118, must be the thermostat that they are charging so much for? Won't be able to order anything til next month though, with Christmas for the two grandbabies and taxes on two properties I just can't afford it this time of year. My grandson wanted a pair of night vision goggles for Christmas, he lives on 6 acres up in NY, quite the nature boy and gardener, has taught me quite a bit about gardening actually. LOL Makes me wonder what animals he is watching at night? Rabbits, raccoons, possums perhaps?
joy112854
Joy, you are right, the thermostat costs as much as a mat, even on the co-op. You don't really need the thermostat. I never use one and things work out fine for me. You can save a lot by avoiding that. Park might well be more expensive and they have not been as reliable in the last couple of years. They will charge your card immediately and then play around with you if the item isn't in stock. They used to charge only when shipped but changed the policy a couple of years ago. Then it's a hassle to get them to cancel the order if you don't want to wait. I honestly recommend you get the mat through the co-op when you can. There doesn't seem to be a time limit on that. Is the Park mat the same one offered in the co-op? I have to check that out! $118 is a lot of money for all of that plus there will be shipping added!! I am wondering if that Biodome might be available on another site for less? Jessica
Joy,
I couldn't find any other place for you to buy the Bio Dome except Park. But before you order please read the postings on the Garden Watchdog. Then pray they have the Dome in stock!! I had great luck with Park's for years until the last two. They are better on "things" rather than plants. Jessica
Jess: Thanks. I will check that out, and after speaking with Boca Bob not sure if I need a thermastat or a mat to begin with, so that is at least 3 that feels that way. LOL
joy112854
I have had great luck with Park and would not be without the sponges. I bought the whole 'dome' the first time, but now just buy the blocks and extra sponges. Heck, I was out of sponges the other day and just stuffed them with coir and floated them like usual. I have had no problems with park in the last couple of years, as a matter of fact, they will replace anything, no questions asked, or that has been my experience.
I cant imagine what you would need a heating mat in FL for. I would not worry about that.
I was just out messing with my seedlings I started about a month ago ( daylilies). The one thing you cant do without. tho, is a light. Actually need to to cover the whole sponge like it should be.
Most of the veggies do much better planted directly in the EB. I do try tomatoes in the sponges, just so I can get a better variety.
some daylily seedlings in the sponges, about two weeks old
Garden Glory: Thanks for the pics and that makes 4 now. LOL
Jess: I really haven't had any problem with Parks thus far. Quite to the contrary, they, Garden Supply, Easy to Grow and Burpees are my favorite places to buy from. I'll order seeds from Parks and right away will get them in the mail, they also have been good at sending anything they are out of stock with to me when it comes in. Garden Supply sends me an email when they are out of stock of something I ordered and then send me another one when it comes in, they don't charge me though til they send it. I get some really good deals from Parks and they always give free plants for orders over a certain amount, which I normally give away to family, and now they all have plants too. LOL
joy112854
Joy and Gardenglory,
Glad to hear that you have had good recent results with Park's. Over the years I, too, got great bargains from them. They were always good with seeds and supplies. I started having problems with plants when they didn't send me some lilies in an order. If I hadn't checked the list again a few months later I never would have realized they hadn't come. Park's kept saying they were on back order but by October (I ordered in April!) I canceled them and did get a refund (after a couple of phone calls). The consumer just has to really be alert with them now and there are too many other reliable places to put up with the hassle. I doubt they ever would have made good on those lilies if I hadn't been watching. Garden Supply is in a different league - totally reliable. I love their products even if they are a bit more expensive. But they have super customer service. I don't know Easy To Grow but have also used Burpees over the years. They are now getting very mixed reviews.
I still have some sponges left and use a few each year but I like the idea of stuffing the holes with the coir, which I will try in the spring. How did the coir work out?
Gardenglory, You make a good point about probably not needing heat mats in Florida. Living in PA I never thought about that. I definitely need them. I have also started some veggies directly in the EB's like squash. But now I find it easier to start the squash on damp paper towels which are placed in plastic bags. Once they have a good root system they can go directly into the EB's or be potted if it's still too cold.
I have also learned in the last two years how great grow lights are. But since you can probably put your seedlings outside so much earlier than I can that may not be an issue for either of you.
Jessica
Jess: I use the florescent lights, which are really not grow lights; but give my startings some light on cloudy days, which we do get here in Florida. I have never ordered live plants from Parks; usually seeds and things that I use in my garden, they have sent me free plants though, when I have ordered seeds and they arrived in good shape, and they usually are quick with getting me my seeds I order.
Easy to Grow is who I usually get my canna rhizomes and daffodil bulbs from, they are really helpful at answering questions too; so, is Burpees. Garden Supply is fantastic also, I haven't too many complaints with the companies I have dealt with, even when a lot of people gave Jim Owens Nursery bad reviews, they sent some shamrock plants that have really taken off and the strawberries did too, their canna lily Rhizomes did not make it and they did refund my money for an order I didn't accept or want rather quickly.
So; overall, I've been really pleased, I have ordered some items from people on the market place and was pleased with all I've gotten from them also. And the customer service from all the above named companies are excellent I think.
What part of Pennsylvania are you close to, as in big cities? My dad was raised close to Pittsburg, PA and was a born green thumb. LOL
joy112854
The statement of "not needing a heat mat in Florida" is not valid. Northern Florida and central Florida gets freezing weather in the teens. Southern Florida gets temps in the forties. Heat mats are a great aid especially for peppers (though not necessary for tomatos but can't hurt) as they like warm soil to germinate and we do use A/C most of the year. Although the seeds will germinate, they will germinate quicker and healthier with a heat mat that conducts the heat right up thru the coir. Try it both ways and see for yourself? A heat mat of about 12" X 20" or so costs about $25 and lasts for years. I've had mine for seven years and still going strong. A thermostat, in my opinion, is not necessary.
Thanks, T Plant, for clarifying the heat mat situation in Florida. I certainly love them even when the daytime temps in the spring get up to the 70's. Nights can be 20 to 30 degrees cooler then. It's the bottom heat that seems to be important for speeding up the germination. The Heat Mat co-op is offering that size for $27.95 with shipping included. I have the 2 tray size and have used it for at least 8 years. Co-op prices are fantastic with the shipping included.
Joy, I am in northeastern PA , north of the cities of Allentown and Bethlehem and near the New Jersey border. Pittsburgh is at the other end about a 5-6 hour drive. Stroudsburg is the closest "town".
Gardadore: Oh, ok. I think that what Tplant said is 100% correct, as the articles I have read, which are many, in regards to starting seeds out, that they germinate better with a heating mat, as it warms the soil up and therefore; speeds up germination. That was the reason I had wanted one, and yes $20-$30 is an investment where I'm concerned and not an expense. Anything that you will use over and over again is an investment. EB's cost a lot, so does the potting mix, fertilizer and dolomite lime is not; but, look at this way, you will be using the EBs and the potting mix over and over again, so, it's really an investment as far as I'm concerned. You break that investment up over the years and what little have you spent?
I notice also that if you use warm water to expand your pellets and then slap the dome on, the pellets stay moist longer, not needing as much water and also germinate better.
Question: Can you use the dome and heating mat together? I know you can't put the dome on and set it outside, learned that the hard way once. PTL my grandson was around to see the steam coming up and tried to save my seedlings. That was after soaking 55 seeds for 3 days and then nicking them, go figure right? LOL
joy112854
I don't find that I save anything by gardening because of all the "stuff" I buy to produce the perfect tomato or eggplant, but then we all have our "vices" and "addictions" and I happen to believe this is very healthy one! The by-product of tasty,fresh veggies with no chemical additives is the plus for me and the beauty in my back yard.
I use a dome and mat together. I just have to keep checking that I open the vents once the moisture builds up. I also keep the mat and dome away from direct sunlight in the house. Once the seeds sprout they are removed immediately from the mat and placed under lights to grow onwards and upwards. Before using the grow lights my seedlings would lean so far to get light that they sometimes fell flat on their faces!
Using warm water to expand the pellets will also hasten raising the soil temperature for germination with the heat mat.
You will not regret the heat mat investment. You don't even need an expensive dome set. I have one but also use the little domes that come with roast chicken in the supermarket. You can put the pellets in the bottoms. I have saved dozens of the tops. I start seeds in all kinds of containers and put the "chicken" domes over them since they are really quite tall.
If you do you use the domes, remove them the second you see green. Seedlings also love to be where air is moving. A little fan on them makes for strong stems.
Since the seeds need no light to germinate, You can set your seeds on anything warm to gemrminate. The tv., for example. Once they are up, you have to put them so close to the light to keep them from getting leggy, the light warms them up.
That works vey well also. Did that in the old days with my father.
Great advice, Gardenglory! I did forget to mention that I do remove the domes when I put them under the lights! I don't use a fan but someone recommended a few years ago the I brush my hand over the tomato seedlings every day to strengthen the stems.
Seems to work!
I purchased a small light fan with cloth blades for safety and it works perfectly! There are many ideas to grow strong stems and passing the hand over them really does seem to work as I did that before the fan.
Gardadore and TPlant: Thanks, managed to get the plants smuggled down to south Florida to Mike, when we unpacked them, they were spindly and leaning over of course. He will know how to take care of that though, it's his problem now. LOL I just got home a few hours ago, and jumped on the phone with Parks. I ordered their double dome kit with the heat mat and thermostat, don't really need the thermostat I don't think; but, here is the reason, after talking to them they explained that it comes with fertilizer I just mix and the sponges you don't overwater as easy as the peat pellets and you water from the bottom. You can vent the domes like you two said when the moisture builds up and you see green. I also bought a 40 cell block one to put in it so I can start my tomato plants in those. I will keep them in the bottom part until I see 4 leafs then maybe they will be able to go right into the EBs?????
I don't want to have to transplant them from the bio dome to anything else except the EBs as I think they will have a better survival rate in the case of my being the grower, less mistakes for me to make???
joy112854
You wont be sorry about the sponges. There is no transplant shock at all. The sponges also hold the plants up in the EB mix until the roots take hold. For me, that is just a huge thing. Makes it where you can plant them out earlier too.
Garden Glory: Thanks, I think I will enjoy them also, from what the lady told me that I spoke with, she said you water them from underneath, )just what Tplant told me to do with the Jiffys remember?), and that you didn't have to water them much at all after the initial watering and fertilizing. She talked me right into ordering the 40 cell one also, as she said I could leave the plant in it right up til it had 4 leaves on it and then transplant the plant right into the EB!!!! I think I may have hit it right this time. LOL
joy112854
Joy,
Glad to see you worked out what was best for you! It does sound like a good solution for you. Up here in PA i can't move the tomatoes, peppers or eggplants directly to the EB's because it takes so long for the weather to get warm enough and I have to start them several weeks earlier. I move them into larger pots first where they stay until the end of May. It makes sense that in Florida you can transfer directly.
The nice thing about the sponges is that you have far less root damage when transplanting. I just got tired of finding the remaining sponges the next years in the EB's and the garden so will probably try the coir ones if I go back to "sponges" or just pack the holes with loose coir.
You will have a wonderful time with your new "equipment"!
Concerning watering, I also have the 40 cell block and a couple of 60 cell blocks. While you do water from the bottom I find that sometimes the tops start to dry out. So to be sure they are damp enough I keep a spray bottle nearby and gently spray the tops every couple of days. This may or may not be a good idea in your climate but it works here. Happy growing! Jessica
Jess: That sounds good as I love my spray bottle, had to give it up with the Jiffy peat pellets though, it was just soaking them too much. TPlant adviced me to water them from the bottom and not til 3 days later, he was right, I saw a big difference in the plant after doing that, problem was I had to dip the pellet into a container of water, and think that might have shocked them some. But, they made it all to south Florida safe and sound, smuggled in my luggage to my boyfriends's house. He is a great gardener too, so they stand a chance of making it now. LOL I hated leaving, it was so nice down there, perfect weather. He just planted a Bing tree and the 4 canna lily rhizomes I sent him are growing into some very pretty flowers now. I have him some Parks' whopper improved tomatoes on the way and some Parks variety of sweet peppers to start and plant in Boca Bob's lay flat bags and 5 gallon bags, (he has 10 of each), so that should keep him pretty busy.
joy112854
I reuse my sponges if something doesnt germinate, if they are on their last leg, I dig them in the soil. Since our soil is sand, cant get to much peat.
Since the sponges float in water, the tops never ever have to be watered. That is a great thing for the seedlings, no matter what kind they are.
Garden Glory: And a wonderful thing here for the water monster who has to hold her hands behind her back when she looks at her plants to keep from giving them too much water. LOL
joy112854
well this is right up your alley, with them floating in it all the time, you will maybe not have the urge.
I actually sometimes take mine out of the water for a day and let the sponges drain a little, once the roots come out the bottom, which happens pretty fast, then I dont ever unfloat them.
Garden Glory: I'm just hoping I get it in time for planting season, they said they are out of stock and should get them in the first week of January.
joy112854
more than enough time. They will be ready to plant out in six weeks at least and it still freezes then. Your good.
Garden Glory: I'm looking forward to planting in that thing when it gets here.
joy112854
Okay, I've got a question ...
If they go straight out in the garden, aren't they mighty tiny? I usually start my seeds early and repot them at least 2 times and sometimes 3, so my tomatoes are big when they go out in my EB's. If they are little babies, don't they get leggy? I mean, they're awfully tiny in those little cups? I'm having trouble picturing this? It sounds like such a wonderful idea?
~Susan
That seedling I pictured above is about 2 weeks old, they dont get leggy if you start them under lights and keep the lights close. That goes for any method tho. You can leave seedling in there until they get pretty darn big. Even tho the sponges or cups are not all that big, dont forget they have a water wonderland to grow and expand all they want. You can get them plenty big for an earth box. I will say this, I would probably get the bigger 18 count sponges if I was going to grow and hold tomatoes more than about six weeks
Garden Glory: From what I saw that Boca Bob showed us, with the coconut coir ones, they can stay right in there until time to put them in the EB, I like that and would think rather use his for my tomatoes and eggplant startings, I think they'd suffer less shock that way; and being able to grow them a bit bigger would give them a better chance at making it once they got into the EB. That's just my opinion though, the fact that I can't over water is a plus.
joy112854