Amending soil and planting now- newbie question

Hi, all, posted this in the Soils section and got no response. Perhaps one of you know?


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greetings all

I am new to all of this. I am amending my soil with leaves and such. Can I replant now?

The SC soil in my front yard is clay under about 3" of soil and it has basically formed a bathtub for the bed that I put there in May with daylilies, lantana, and perennials (black-eyed Susans, Gaillardias, and Bush Daisy). The bed is in full sun and is about 8 feet across (round shape) and while I spaded up a good bit of it, the bed stayed way too wet after a good rain.

The plants in there did okay (except most of the gaillardias went toes up - too wet) but I want them to do better next year.

So I removed them all ( and the babies that are coming up) and have dug the bed up over the past 2 days:

I added in about a foot of nice fluffy leaves courtesy of my neighbor's maple and pecan trees, a 2 cf bag of Pine Fines (composted pine soil conditioner), some Gypsum clay buster(about 5 good double handfuls) , and I dug up some partially rotted grass clippings from my back yard under the Photinas and added about an inch of that , too. . Spaded it all in good and added about a cup of blood meal and some bagged compost. I now have about 12-14 inches of pretty friable earth, the big chunks of clay are broken up and mixed in. I did not layer the things, they are all garden-forked in and turned over well. I will be adding some lime to bring the PH up, and some more leaves, and some coffee grounds, too.

My question: Can I replant my flowers (except the lantana, which I found out that I detest) ), a Forsythia shrub, and some of my bulbs now? Or do I have to wait for it to heat up and work and plant later in the spring?

And my hubby just brought home a trailer-load of topsoil that he got at a construction site (clearing a rural plot for a WalMart) that smells faintly of cow manure (my more experienced neighbor agreed that it looked good and the manure smell, while definitely noticeable, was not real strong. )

Should I add some of it?

I am willing to take a chance, I just do not know if the leaves and such in there will be too much for the shrub and bulbs. And can I dig these leaves into my other beds with azaleas and bulbs and perennials or do I have to compost them first? We have tons fo them now and I can gets bags full from the neighbors (I have mostly pines on my yard)

Thanks for any help or advice that you can give me - and yes, I will be trying lasagna bedding in another bed and a straw-bale tomato in the spring, but right now I just want to get this bed going nicely because it is the first thing you see at my house.


Many thanks in advance
Lorie in Columbia

I don't think you will have any problem; leaves breaking down do not create that much heat. If you had fresh manure in there it would be a different story. Top soil that has a "manure odor" should be OK also. If they are clearing for a WM, that field has probably been unused for a while. Forsythia and bulbs are pretty tough plants so I say go for it.

First rule though is to get a soil sample (about a pint of dry soil) to the Clemson Extension office and get it tested to see just how much lime you need to add and if you need to add anything else.

Many Thanks, Ardesia, I appreciate it.
I thought that it might be the case, and hoped that I was not setting myself up to have no plants in that bed for several months.
I will do the soil tests on Monday, that is something that I have been meaning to do from the various sections of the garden. We have one on the other side of town, but I have wanted to take a look at the gardens there anyway, even though it is all brown and frozen here.

And in the meantime I will be 'borrowing' the neighbor's nice big plump bags of leaves.
My sons offered to rake his yard for $10 but he is too cheap to pay them to do that. LOL. He has a riding lawnmower that bags the leaves, so he really only takes his time and a little gas. Funny thing is he has a huge veggie garden in the back, yet he never composts the leaves.

Have a great day, heading out to work more on planting.

Lorie, that area they cleared wasn't used with cattle for a while, so the manure I wouldn't worry about creating a lot of heat.

It's weird you mention lasagna gardening; I'd never heard of it until the other day on the bananas forum, but now I've decided to give that a try myself now (starting with leaves and paper). My brother attended a course on it in N.C. a few weeks ago and brought me more info on it. Maybe I can scan that document and put it online. I also want to learn more about vermi-composting.

Only real issue I have is that there isn't a lot of green material (like grass) to throw in between the paper and leaves. So I have a lot of carbon material but not enough nitrogen. Could I just throw a bunch of blood meal in there - or would that not do any good? I also plan to top off my beds with mushroom compost (lots of places in Irmo sell it) in the spring. I assume that won't be too much heat for my bananas and EE's will it?

How about that I just yesterday downloaded a file from the Vancouver BC Zero Waste Initiative site (I google Bokasi and ended up there).
Here is a clipped section on what constitutes Green And Brown.
Coffee Grounds are greens, and you can get them from any Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks for free - just call and tell them when you want to pick up or leave a bucket and you phone number - usually if they know that you want them they will save them ahead of time. And filters are okay, they will decompose with the rest.

I will try to backtrack to find that site, there were some good pdfs on composting and vermiposting. I wonder when Columbia and Irmo will offer compiosting bins to their citizens for $25 like so many other municipalities do?
.

Here is the link to the page that has the PDFs on Composting and Worms
http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/solidwaste/composting/Pages/default.aspx
Cool videos, too, I watched them the other night (I do not have a life LOL) and they were quite interesting.

Oh, finally got the word from the Soil and Composting group to go ahead- the leaves etc. should not generate much heat, though they did suggest that I get my soil tested.
So with the turning over of all the soil, amendments to raise it about 6 inches above level, and bloodmeal and compost, and then today's steady rain, those plants that I put in yesterday will either make it or not! LOL

I was going to get a picture, but I worked until dark yesterday and it was so dreary and wet today that I spent it inside cleaning. I will try to get a pic tomorrow

Thanks for the links. Looks like some good info. I've asked for two rotating compost bins for Christmas this year, so I'm hoping that'll get me started with good composting. My two wire bins never really worked, and being in a neighborhood space is limited. So the rotating bins seem like a neat way to try and compost stuff.

Lots of research to do on this - good time of year to get started so that by spring things are ready for planting again :)

Richland County offered compost bins for about $10 many years ago; I am still using the one I got back then. I am not positive but I think Lex. County did the same. Call your county's solid waste division and ask about it. Your Clemson Extension office might know about any programs.

John, you might want to try one of the rotating bins before you get two. When you get it right they can be great but they can be a pain as if you don't have your ratios of greens to browns exactly right and if it is not turned at the appointed time you will wind up with a mass of anerobic muck. A friend gave hers (a $400 model) away because it was tooo stinky and too much trouble.

Worms might be the way to go but in the meantime I have also started using a heavy layer of hay in areas where I want to build new beds and doing "in situ" composting by slipping my scraps under the hay to decompose in place.

Having attended a session on composting just two weeks ago, at which all attendees were provided free composting "bins," which were wire fencing rolls, but we've set ours up in the yard and are happily filling it with leaves, a little green grass, alfafa pellets and dirt. The class instruction was when you turn it, you simply lift the fence section and set it to the side and fork the compost back into it. Very simple. Of course, I think several more "bins" are in order, 'cause one bin won't last long in my garden!

Good stuff here on this forum.

Good idea about using the alfalfa pellets.

Hey, I think I have a roll of fencing in my garage! How big around are your bins? The roll that I have is 3 feet tall on end.


If you add coffee grounds, that is a Green - and if you have anyone that you know that has a rabbit or guinea pig, the shavings and poo is a green, too.

No kitty litter, though.
Gonna go look for fencing.

It's about 3' high. It's not chicken fencing, but galvanized wire fencing 2"X4" opening, 12' long. What the session leader did, he explained very kindly, was to cut to the inside of the last vertifcal wire such that you have a tab on the cut end. When you form the wire into a circle, you put the tabbed end to the inside of the non-tabbed end and fold the tabs to the outside, closing the bin in the circular shape. Then just add leaves, grass, dirt, pellets and water thoroughly each layer. You can also us a big stick, like an old mop handle, to punch a hole in the compost to add in kitchen scraps. When you stick in the stick in, rotate it around to enlarge the hole somewhat. He suggested covering these up to eliminate any wild nibblers from moving in and munching on them! The formula was lots of brown, a little green such as some grass clippings (not too many), a nitrogen source (alfafa pellets, food scraps or blood meal), a little soil or ready compost and water. That's it.

I don't turn my compost often but when I do I use a large auger bit on a cordless drill. Lowe's carries a bit used to stir paint that is a good size, about 3" in diameter and the shank is about 18" or maybe 20". It is fairly inexpensive.

BTW, the only browns I use are shredded paper like old bank statements and junk mail like those credit card applications.

Ardesia: I like your auger idea. We just bought a huge auger for planting larger plants and it works great. Wonderful for planting roses, BTW.

Gotta implement your suggestion, no pun intended!

So are coffee grounds and alfalfa a green? What about the blood meal?

LOL, I have been looking at the large augers for planting. Recently I was working with the county groundskeepers on some new landscaping the dump (yes, we now have a pretty dump.) One of the guys had a Stihl auger and he dug big holes in about a nanosecond. I came home and have been whining for one ever since.

We did go by the dealer to check them out and the thought (DH & the dealer's) was that the heavy auger would swing me around, essentially be too much for me to control. How is yours working out?

I haven't used the large auger yet. DH says he needs to get a handle adapter for the drill because it does twist you around if you aren't strong enough to control it. I have other, smaller gardening augers I've used which are not quite as heavy duty as this one and they weren't a problem. Just be sure you have a drill that is stout enough to handle it. The handle adapter is what I would recommend when you get it.

I used to live in NJ with nice sandy loam (and still I complained!!!)

After moving to Charlotte, NC I learned why people with "Carolina Clay" complain so bitterly about amending soil.

I rented a roto tiller this spring to redo a part of the lawn. After 3 hours of being bounced around by the thingamajig, I had managed to loosen exactly 2" of soil (yeah!)

In short, I gave up. The soil that was going to be turned into a flower bed, I covered with several inches of shredded leaves (fallen from decidous trees) and several bags of hardwood mulch I had left over. I covered with a couple of bales of straw (from Thanksgiving) to keep everything in place. Watered well. Already now, the soil underneath is softer.

This spring I hope to turn the stuff in - and/or add some compost on top.

Best of luck to you. I like your plans already. It appears to be the only possible choice in the hard-hard-hard (... hard !!) .. Carolina clay.

-- Kenneth

KD: You definitely have to amend our clay soil. It's everywhere and it bakes like bricks. In fact, it's what local bricks are made of! I encourage you to take advantage of all the local extension office programs and workshops so you learn about the joys of living in the South! Welcome, BTW.

Add gypsum and pine fines. that helps lots.

And the lasagna beds help, too.

Blood meal is a green, it helps the nitrogen content

See new topic that I started on composting and coffee grounds, etc.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/928675/

Thanks, I'll try the blood meal to help with the paper and leaves. If I could get my rye grass to grow I'd add that too, but I guess it's been too cold for what I planted - it's hardly done a thing.