become a plant? Once it gets roots? or is a plant only a plant if grown from seed? I'd like to know what others think. I'd hate to misrepresent a trade by calling something a plant when it is really just well rooted cuttings.
X
When does a cutting ....
I would call your trade plant a well rotted cutting. You can always send a photo to explain.
Once it is in soil and in a pot and growing on, I would call it a plant.
Only my opinion, however!
To me, it's in order of: A cutting (stems without roots), seedling (after germination but has established some roots) then there's the mature plant which is one that has roots and has been growing a year or more. For me it's kinda like: cutting, plantlet baby, mature adult plant, and then I've had some that have gotten to elderly plant status and then ... uh oh, dead (to the compost pile.) ^_^
For trades, I guess you could state it as:
seeds
rooted seedlings (or sapling if a tree)
unrooted cuttings
rooted cuttings
established well-rooted plant.
This is interesting, I will be interested to hear what others say.
For some plants it can matter how the plant was propagated, so you may need/want to go further with the description. As an example, I offer lingonberries. A rooted cutting even more than a year old (an established plant) is less likely to develop rhizomes than a plant of the same size that grew from a seed. This affects the plants growth and vigor to some extent as without the rhizomes the plant will not spread as well as a plant grown from seed. I have not read how long this difference can exist, but I suspect it could be years.
X, as I know you want to be a good and accurate trader (and are!) as are all of us, it may be appropriate to say how the plant was created as well as what its current state of growth is.
Hope that makes sense.
For me a plant is in a 4" pot or larger and has rooted out in the pot. Some nurseries in the south propagate from cutting and have a mature 6" plant in as little as 6 months some take a bit longer. Krowten is correct in that an accurate description saves on misunderstandings and hurt feelings. I try to be as acurate with my descriptions as I think most everyone else on DG.
I am also curious as to what everyone thinks.
Dave
Great information all!! I know "rooted" means different things to different folks. I agree that a picture is always helpful and age of plant b/c that gives an idea of how "well rooted" it may be.
It has been my thinking that it would be safe/ethical to call rooted cuttings a plant once it is established and actively growing. The only time I would differentiate rooted cuttings from a plant is, as Krowten pointed out, when the plant normally produced rhizomes, bulbs or tubers.
I just wanted some clarity and thoughts of others about the difference.
X
I think you also need to take into account the variety of plant even within the same type. As another example, I have 2 year plants of "Hinnomaki yellow" gooseberry that are only about 6" high yet 1 year "Black Velvet" plants are 1-2' with multiple shoots from the roots even from cuttings the same size. I could see that a trade with a "rooted cutting" of Black Velvet would be better regarded than a 2 year "Hinnomaki yellow" to someone who has no prior experience with Hinnomaki yellow but has seen what Black Velvet does.
Hope these examples are helping.
I personally consider a rooted cutting a plant, once I have determined that it has rooted and is growing and I have transplanted out of the nursery pot into its own container. So I find myself much in agreement with both Dave and Xeramtheum.
I have been disappointed by some nurseries, (Glasshouse Works comes to mind - not meant as a put-down) who sell plants that are actively growing, but clearly are rooted cuttings (or divisions) and smaller than I would have classified them as plants. Of course, it also needs to take into account what you are getting here. For example, a small EE pup only 1" leaf or so can become a monster in a few months.
I agree with x and krowten I have rooted cuttings that are actively growing but are still to small for bumping up to 4" so its still a liner or rooted cutting if you will.
Dave
I'm resurrecting this because I think it has good information in it and would be useful to all of our newer gardening friends who like to trade.
X
I'm glad you brought it up for some of the newer traders. I traded three really nice-sized plants to a newbie who sent me a few measly barely-rooted cuttings. When I told her I thought we were trading plants she replied that she had sent plants because they had roots.
I recently had a similar experience jana.
Don't get me wrong, I love to trade - in fact, I think I'm addicted to it - but this trader said she really wanted to trade with me, had some plants on my wants list and that they were of a good size. She did have the plants on my wants list but they were shriveled cuttings by the time I received them with barely any roots on them and as far as size..well, she sent them in a small bubble mailer with two stamps on it. The whole bubble mailer thing didn't really bother me as it's a new trader and I was so unsure when I first started mailing my trades. But thinking a cutting with some barely-there roots is a plant? That kinda bothered me. If I had known ahead of time what they were it wouldn't have bothered me so much. Granted, I certainly wouldn't have traded established plants with her but I would've traded something smaller with her. That's why I like this thread being on there - sometimes people really don't know if they're just starting out. This needs to be a sticky at the top of the Plant Trading page like Kim's instructions for mailing.
Di
This message was edited Oct 25, 2010 8:34 PM
Very interesting... Good thread.
My thanks to all of you for this thread.
Hope to hear some more on it as I need to learn everthing that I should know about telling it like it is.
in my mind's eye:
a cutting offering is a piece of a plant that can be propagated thusly, is severed from the parent, wrapped in moist material and encased in plastic and other protective material to mail.
a rooted cutting is same thing but has a nice start of roots that are ready to be potted for a new plant when it arrives, and of course treated same as above.
A plant is one that is well rooted and either offered as a root-ball, or bare root with approximat pot size. or simply ' in ?' size pots
Bulbs by approximate size, ....
I'm not sure about the other kinds of root systems.. can you educate me on them? Appreciate and TIA
tvksi
This is a great thread!
Because I live in the desert I don't trade plants much unless they can take some extreme conditions in transit, like Daylilies or Iris or bulbs. It's too hot here in the summer to ship and when it's nice in the winter, most of the rest of the country is too cold for me to ship to.
When I ship plants I usually leave some dirt on and wrap the roots & dirt in some Press n Seal (great stuff). I do not ship plants in pots ever.
One could also consider a plant 'mature' if it's established enough to flower any time soon.
I totally agree that without photos, a good description is always best, especially since different species grow at different rates. For instance, a plumeria from seed may grow to be a nice-sized seedling in a single summer but it still takes 3-5 years from seed to flower whereas an EE bulblet (as Krowton mentioned) can grow pretty big, and possibly even produce pups during one season.
A Plant in my eyes... is one that has a very Good root system. I have traded for Plants that are actually divisions. I don't consider that a Plant. I call it a "Rooted Start" because it's chances for survival is not as good as a Pot kept/grown plant. Or one dug with All the roots intact.
For instance...The Plants in the Picture Below.
I called them Plants when offered for trade. Because the roots are wrapped a million times in the pot and growing out the bottom.
1. The Pavonia were grown from seed.
2. The Abelia were leaf cuttings.
3. The acanthus mollis (grown from seed) which I consider them seedlings. Roots still developing and seed still attached.
4. The Portulaca were cuttings but the roots are Full/wrapped and coming out the holes on bottom
I try to be very specific when trading plants. Letting the person know what they are getting, age, propagation method, and condition.
edited because I can't spell and type this time of night...lol
This message was edited Oct 25, 2010 11:38 PM
Plants should definately be identified as to wether they were grown from seeds, divisions, cuttings or pot grown. I made a trade to send a mature amarylis bulb for a mature amarylis bulb. I recieved 3 tiny onion sized things & had to ask what they were. It was amarylis sprouted from seed. Hmmmm..I don't do that. Some plants take years to bloom from seeds, should be addressed when trading. There should be a clear understanding of what you are sending & what you are receiving. As far as when a rooted cutting becomes a plant - when it has enough roots on it to sustain life. Only send what you would like to recieve, some plants are really tougher than others & you will know which ones by growing them - let the trader know. By the way, ALL my great trades have certainly made up for any not too good trades I've had. Thanks to Kim_M; chellflower & dozens more!!
This is a very good informational thread. I haven't really traded any actual plants (and I would prefer to call them cuttings/rooted cuttings than plants) but divisions/bulb size is definitely good to read. Thank you!
Definitely speaking in favor of Press N Seal as the first layer over roots, dirt, bare root, etc. It holds up well when the interior is wet. I always try to follow up by putting the Press N Seal package in a zip bag, zipped, then taped or stapled.
Tubers, rhizomes and bulbs have various definitions and often can be in minor conflict as to details, but are all basically swollen roots that store energy and typically have the ability to generate new plants. Some can go dormant. They will often be slower to produce on a new plant than roots. Thus, these kinds of plants have limited ability to survive shipping and planting unless they are mature enough to develop these structures. Roots only is probably not a good idea for them.
Xera, I never thought of using Press and Seal when sending my plants - what a great idea!
"I try to be very specific when trading plants. Letting the person know what they are getting, age, propagation method, and condition." - Kim, that's something I need to address on my end a little better.
Sherman - I try to keep some dirt on my roots but not much. I sent a few trades out this year that were practically bare-root because our ground was so dry that when I brought them up, the dirt just fell off it. A lot of people clean the roots off which is fine as well - trades I've received either way do well.
And Scotchie, I agree with you about good trades outweighing the bad - the trade I was referring to above was with a newbie last year who didn't know anything about trading and I figure I probably upset someone here in the beginning without knowing it myself.
so many people have digital cameras now or cell phone cameras, maybe ask for a photo of the plant you're trading for???
When I sell i try to give them showing everything. it takes all the argument out of the deal