New to Brugmansia

Ok I'm fairly new to Brugmansia and was wondering if y'all could give me the things to do and things I shouldn't do to just grow and enjoy them. My mother been growing them for a few years now and some one told her she was doing hers wrong but mom's has always looked good. She's just taken her's into the basement and pulled them back out the next spring but the person she talked to told her she needed to cut in way back every year. To me that doesn't sound quit right. And some people in the area say we can plant them directly in the ground and they will grow back every year. Is that right or are they getting datura and brugmansia mixed up?.

Thanks
john

John, Brugs produce two kinds of growth — vegetative and flowering. Before they'll bloom, they have to produce a "Y", two equal growths produced where there was only one before (Sometimes, a Brug will produce three.). Plants that are cut way back beyond the point before they produced the first "Y" will have to grow vegetatively up to a certain height, and produce a "Y" before they will bloom again. So basically, they would be starting from scratch every year. So the answer to that question is don't prune below the "Y" if you have to prune. It is possible to make very long cuttings and bringing them indoors to overwinter and root, but that should include the first "Y" or it will take longer for that cutting to bloom.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/780863/
(There are more links of this kind in old threads.)
As an aside: Cuttings taken from below the "Y" will need to grow vegetatively to a certain height (Height varies with each cultivar and health of plant.) and produce a "Y" before they will bloom. You can't control or force the plant to produce that initial "Y" before it is ready. Cuttings taken from above the "Y" will continue to grow as if they were still attached to the mother plant, will produce more "Y"s and bloom even when they are very small rooted plants.

Your zone of 6a gets far too cold for Brugs to survive left to overwinter in the ground. If the ground freezes, the plants are toast. If the ground remains near freezing for too long, the Brugs are toast especially if it is very cold and wet — bad combination! Brugs planted in the ground in your area would have to be considered annuals or dug up and brought indoors. Some DGers in our northern climates, take long cuttings, overwinter them in buckets with a few inches of water and hydrogen peroxide or some source of aeration. These cuttings will root by spring. These new rooted plants are then planted out in the spring.

Over time, the potting soil degrades. Ideally, potted Brugs should be replanted in new soil every spring. They are heavy feeders and to perform their best they need to be fed a balanced fertilizer that includes the micronutrients at least twice a week when they are actively growing. They prefer moist rather than dry soil. During summer down here, I have to water daily and sometimes more than that during really hot and dry days or the leaves will wilt. Even though they love moist soil, it is possible to kill them by overwatering. This is more likely to occur when the soil is cold or the plant is put in a pot that is too large for the root system the plant has.

Brugs come in white, pink, yellow, orange, peach and a reddish orange. The reddish orange ones are Brugmansia sanguinea or are a hybrid that includes one B. sanguinea parent. These will not grow or produce flowers when the temperatures get higher than 71º+. So most of us have to enjoy that one vicariously. There are exceptions, but single flowered Brugs generally produce more blooms than double flowered Brugs. They produce the strongest fragrance in the evening and at night.

You can find Brugs and seeds here in the Marketplace. A number of our members also sell Brugs through their own nurseries. Go to PlantScout to search for specific cultivars.
http://davesgarden.com/products/ps/
Also a number of our members sell through e-Bay. I would be weary of buying from someone you don't know. Unfortunately, not all sellers on e-Bay are honest.

Most Daturas are annuals.

Ok the Brug that I have is potted. So I probably should bring it in all leaves are gone now and we have had one slight frost so far. Mom said something that i need to place it in a dark area. How dark of an area do i need to place it in and do I need to keep it watered through out the winter months?

If it goes completely dormant, then it's OK for it to be in an unlit basement, but it doesn't have to be in the dark. You may have to give it a little bit of water now and then just so the soil doesn't go completely dry. If the temperature is not sufficient to make it go dormant, then it won't go completely dormant and it will need light to keep any new growth short and sturdy. If it doesn't get enough light, any new growth will be long and spindly. Give it enough water to keep the soil slightly moist.

This was a nice, concise primer on Brugs. I just got my first (oh, how I have pined for one) as Armstrong Garden Center had a 50-70% off clearance sale. Sign of the times, eh? Well, I finally got one - but I don't know which one it is.

Thanks for the basics!
Jeff

How can you tell if they go dormant??

Thanks,
Carolyn

Carolyn, according to Dr. Hans-Georg Preissel, one of the authors of Brugmansia and Datura: Angel's Trumpet and Thorn Apples,

Thanks for the info. Now to find a good spot to house it during the winter

Thank you ... that is wonderful information....

CArolyn

My first brug is a 4 footer and still hasn't Y'd. It is in a pot until next spring, when I will put it into the ground. I have struggled with where to put mine too. I hope to have my greenhouse finished in two weeks. It will not be heated more than likely so I don't know if I can put it in there over the really cold days and nights we sometimes get.

I struggle with whether or not to bring it inside. There really isn't room since the leaves are so darned big. I don't know, maybe the living room will work. It is somewhat dark once the sun gets to about 10:00 in the sky. Yeesh, I wish I could make up my mind.

This past winter, my coldest overnight temperature was 26ºF and 23ºF in the previous 6 winters. I have a small 8' X 8' X 8' greenhouse, built by my younger son, to house my orchids. It is too small to heat with a vented propane heater so I'm using a 1500 Waii electric heater. A temperature (and humidity) sensor show the lowest temperature on these cold nights doesn't go below 35ºF. Last December, I placed 4 - 35 gallon dark plastic garbage cans filled with water against the southern wall of the greenhouse. They increased the temperature inside the greenhouse on those cold nights by 3 - 5 degrees depending on the daytime conditions. Larger garbage can should improve the temperature, but I couldn't find larger cans on the QT last year. On the rare occasion that the circuit has been tripped and the heater goes off, the inside temperature goes down to the same as the outside temperature so having a greenhouse doesn't do much good. I overwinter my Brugs and other tropicals in a heated 20' X 20' greenhouse. The thermostat is set at 45º F as a compromise with DH. I'll will have to make some adjustments to that thermostat this winter.

Your Brug will suffer frost damage at 32º F. Prolonged exposure or lower temperatures, even while in the greenhouse if it is unheated, will kill it back to the soil level. It's difficult to predict whether the roots will suffer damage because it's depends on how long the potting soil is exposed to temperatures below 32ºF. If you can heat the greenhouse enough to keep it from freezing, your Brug should survive. Here in zone 8b chances are your Brug will not go dormant because the daytime temperature can get rather warm. The advantage of keeping it in the greenhouse is that any new growth will be nice and sturdy. In the house, it won't go dormant, but any growth will be spindly unless you provide plenty of sunlight or artificial light for about 16 hours. How difficult will it be to move the Brug between house and greenhouse when necessary?

Hi Wags!!!!!!! LOL See you have found a new passion too. I agree with Betty, been buying afe wbrug sticks and seeds form the market place here, and on ebay just found some, but onyl gettign from those that I know are on here and are growers.

Ya know how we always looking for that 67,000 dollar blue Daylily. Well they looking for it in brugs too. LOL

That was a whole lot of typing Betty but appreciate ya typing it cuz I still had questions of winterizing too. My gh unheated and a 20 x 20. Wondering if the couple I have in smallpots, if I could put like a smallhopp and another layer of plastic over them at night, if that would keep the roots warm enough from freezing down here. I know it gets hot durign the day and would have to come off, but worried about the nights. With only a few I coudl haul in and out, but wonder if that a good or bad thing for them.

John. What color is your Mother's and is it a single or a double do you know? Welcome to the world of brugs my friend. This forum is addicting too. LOL

It shouldn't be too difficult to move the brug from greenhouse to house if she doesn't get much bigger. My greenhouse is 6x8 and won't be wired this year. I won't have heat unless I do what an engineer told me with extension cords made to carry higher voltage and use an electric oil heater. But I think my GH may be too ssmall for that type of heater.

I think she would be worth moving if I needed too. I could just keep her lower leaves off. Then she'd be easier to move. She has very big leaves and lots of them.

Betty I appreciate your input, keep it coming. I have a lot to learn. Jeanne

Hey Ella,

Mom have several plants but don't know how many different kind. I know one blooms 2 different colors one time it blooms yellow and then the next bloom will be pink, But I think all she has is either pink or yellow no doubles. Ain't that sad:).

I just cut mine back and placed it in the basement. Its not really dark and not light either. Only thing there is I'm afraid when we open the garage door it might be to cold. We have a couple rooms in one of the buildings here (on the camp grounds) that gets alot of afternoon and evening sunlight and I thought about checking the temperature there and maybe using it as a cold house. Maybe not for the brug , that I have right now, but maybe for my daylily seedlings. Gonna get some brug cuttings soon think that area might be a good location for them?

John.. It gonan take these other brug expert growers to answer yoru question.. I just starting with them. I got tired of spendign th epast coupel of years hiding and drooling on this thread and decided to peel myself off th ewall paper.

I love the doubles too. : ) There this guy called eddiandwayne on Ebay. he got some collection specials going on where ya can get like three sticks of different doubles for like 7.99 or 8.99 It was in my budget so I got a collection. I think there like four sticks in the collection when they get here will sent ya one of the doubles.

John, invest in a wireless temperature and humidity station. If the buildings you want to monitor are over 100', go for the 300' stations. They are slightly more expensive, but well worth it. Most will allow you to use up to 3 sensors, monitoring 3 locations at once. Checking the humidity is also important. Our humdity here in central Texas can vary from 11% to 99%.

I don't think the Brugs would object too much going back and forth as long as they got back to the greenhouse as soon as possible. Our temperature fluxuation here can be rather drastic at times, but by having my Brugs remain in the greenhouse cuts down on the variables. So the plants only have to contend with the temperatue fluxuation.

Extension cords are rated by the number of amperes (amps) the cord can safely handle. A small 1500 Watt heater requires a 15 - 16 amp cord. A household outlet can handle a maximum of 15 amps total for the two plug outlet. My DH is an electrical engineer. I've exploited that knowledge base. I didn't have a permanent electrical set up the first year I got my little greenhouse. I have an outdoor overhead fan, one with a 3 light fixture attached, hanging from the roof peak. It helps to keep the air circulating and in winter, it pushes the rising warm air back down. The light is handy when working in there after dark. It seems that if something is going to go wrong, it will do so at night. First winter, I had a temporary set up that included using the outdoor electrical outlet, the heaviest duty extension cord I could find, and a couple of thick bamboo stakes. The stakes kept the extension suspended off the ground.

I hope that somewhere in my ramblings I have answered your questions.

I was wondering about potting soil for Brugs. Do you mix your own, or buy commercial soil like Miracle Grow? I am raising worms so I can harvest the castings.... and thought maybe mixing some MG with Castings would make a nice rich medium in which to plant Brugs... I am considering planting some of my Brugs in pots and some directly in the soil.... and then mulching them heavily for the winter.... but keeping a few cuttings just in case they don't make it.

Also, would it be advantageous to plant Brugs diredtly in the soil but amend the soil with MG and Castings there as well?

What do you fertilize them with and how often?

I have order some New Zealand Spaghnum Orchid Moss for placeing my cuttings in. They say the NZ moss has some sort of natural antibacterial quality to it. Is that so? I imagine that would help with the health of the cuttings eh?

Sorry for so many questions, but I really do want to get off on the right foot here and not end up losing a raft of cuttings and get all disappointed because of my ignorance about raising Brugs.

BTW, A lady at church gave me this Brug... she dug it out of the ground and said it didn't do anything for her, so maybe I will have better luck. She said it was pink and it had a tag, but the tag is inside the dirt and I did not poke around to see.

Thanks,
Carolyn

I have about decided to use my Mr. Buddy propane heater. It can be used indoors and in shacks, fish houses, RV's. workrooms. It has an emergency low oxygen shut off feature. I figure if you can use it in your house or RV it should be safe for the greenhouse. I will probably leave a vent partially open for fresh air to come in. Then everything can stay in there all winter. No carting back and forth. Of course I will probably obcess over it and get up to check it out. Hopefully we won't have too many freezing nights.

Oh, does anyone use grow lights? I just bought a floor lamp and grow bulbs for them. Those little bulbs get hot. I worry about the lamp overheating.

What zone are you in Carolyn? I'm not sure your brugs would have time to root into the soil well enough to survive the winter. Especially, any cuttings you are just now getting.

I use just about any soil I can get my hands on that will remain a little loose. I don't care for anything that compacts and I've been known to add top soil to a loose mixture to help hold the moisture some.

Good luck with your brugs. You are going to have so much fun.

Oh, I couldn't plant them outsidenow... We are in Western/Middle Tennessee, right along the river... so I think we are in zone 6. Maybe 7.. but either way, we do get freezes, and ice and snow... So, I won't plant them outside until May. I do have quite a gaggle of pots in my garden shed, so I won't be lacking in pots for them. And my sunroom is just perfect for getting them started really well.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I use MG because Home Depot doesn't carry many choices. I started out using one from an organic nursery. Paid a fortune... soon discovered that the perlite was really styrofoam which floated to the top.
The rest of the stuff sank to the bottom of the pot reducing drainage. I ended having to repot all my Brugs. The addition of garden soil is not recommended. It can harbor pests and over time it will also settle down to the bottom of the pot. If the soil dries out too much, it shrinks and pull away from the pot walls making alost impossible to rehydrate the rootball.

I agree with Brugie regarding planting cuttings in the ground now. You live in zone 6b. You would be really pushing it with Brugs in the ground. If you look at .edus and the two Brug associations, you'll see that zone 8 is listed as the northernmost root hardy zone. Some DGers living in zone 7 have been known to successfully push the envelope with some Brugs. I haven't seen complete details of their success to get an idea of which cultivars they grow. I imagine your Brugs would need a long growing period to have a chance at surviving winter in the ground. You could try it next year so that by the end of the year you'll have plenty of cuttings as back up.

Brugs are heavy feeders. I give mine Miraclegrow or hibiscus fertilizer with some epsom salts thrown in every so often. Amending native soils ia currently not recommended unless it's a large planting area and several holes are knocked into the hardpan to allow drainage in clay soils. If your soil is very sandy, like mine is, then amending is fine because you are doing it to help retain moisture. In heavy clay soils, you create tubs of slow draining water. It might be best to plant your Brug in native soil and top dress with the worm casting or compost.

Texasgrower, how many hours will your Mr. Buddy run per bottle? Temperatures really plummet on a really cold night. I can't think of anything worse than having to go out at 2:00 AM to exchange propane bottles. If you have opaque or transparent wall and roof on your Greenhouse, grow lights aren't needed unless you plan to start seedlings in it. Brugie is right about how much fun growing Brugs can be. A pain in the neck as well, but one look at those gorgeous blooms seems to make all the pain worthwhile.

the bottle will run anywhere from 5 to 8 hrs depending on the setting. That is the 1lb bottle. I agree about having to go out and check a bottle. It will all be by trial and error. I will of course obcess over it no matter what.

So do I understand that I shouldn't amend my soil when planting the brugs or anything else? My soil is a mix of clay and I don't know what else. It is either rock hard or mushy. I do have parts of the yard where there is good soil and earth worms. I have always amended my soil with miracle grow, humus and cow manure. The only plant that didn't like the amended clay soil was a butterfly bush. It is now in a big tub until spring.

Are grow lights a good thing for the cuttings (brugs) indoors?

As long as you already have the grow lights, it wouldn't hurt to use them once you start to see top growth.

Current recommendations by university horticultural departments is against amending soil for individual plants. If you are planting a large area or bed, it's alright to amend particularly if you punch holes in the hardpan.

wow, my back yard is so much clay. Can those roots grow in such hard soil? I can barely dig it with a shovel. Or just forget planting in those areas.

Is your soil black jumbo? That used to be very productive soil, but it was overplanted. Nutrients and humus were used up and never replaced. You could try amending large sections of the garden,but that could get very expensive. Alternatively you could build raised beds or put down plants that do well in clay soils. Top dressing, mulch and using things like compost tea will help improve the soil over time.

I have a few areas that look sandy until I try to dig into it, hard as a rock. I plan to put some hardy shrubs in those areas.

I have good old red clay. Not as bad as in Alabama or Oklahoma but red clay none the less. It's funny, some parts of the acre are good soil with earth worms and other parts are clay. Then there is the root problem. I have so many trees you can't hardly find a place without running into roots. I hadn't considered raised beds. How deep should they be?

Betty I'm really beat. Don't know why I'm up this late. I will check back in tomorrow. Have a good night. Jeanne