Michelia chmapaca 'alba' is the one I saw on sale recently for about 69 bucks in a 5 gallon pot. The plant was about 4 ft tall from the soil line.
I could use it in a mostly sunny location, with a bit more shade in the summer. Any thoughts on this magnificent plant (I love the fragrance)? Sunset says it is relatively new to nurseries in the West. I would love to know if you have it, how you treat it, and how is it doing in your zone? Is there anything I should know about it?
Michelia champaca - ever grown it?
I tried to grow it here (in a pot though since I thought it would be very borderline for our winters and I wanted to be able to put it in the greenhouse) and managed to kill it within a year. I'm still not sure exactly what I did to it, I chalked it up to being one of those plants that would rather be in Florida or Hawaii rather than here but if nurseries in your area are starting to sell it then maybe it was something I did wrong! LOL
I have a couple here in Florida, they do well. I grow mine in full sun with regular watering. In the winter they do get sluggish and I cut down on water. The problem might be a cool, wet winter. They will flower very nicely in containers, so it might we worth a try in a container where you could more easily control the water.
my mom has the white one and she bought it for 29 in a 3 gallons container last year. It's smells incredible! It bloomed everyday during the whole summer and it's still putting out buds but not as much as it does during warm weather.
I think she told me that it tends to wilt when it's too hot. Hers is in a container and she brings it in the winter. I want one but the price has gone up considerably since she bought one.
I've had one for about 5 or 6 years, planted in the garden and never seen a bloom! This Spring we trimmed it down about 5' so perhaps that will make a difference, one hopes!
From what I've heard they're one of those trees that can take quite a while to bloom (mine didn't live long enough for me to find out if that was true or not). I don't think trimming it will help any, although if it's an age thing rather than a size thing then it won't hurt either.
Mine have bloomed at 4'
These were still blooming, though moreso in July, when I first saw them. The scent is amazing. The nurserywoman told me they like full sun and well drained soil. Well, my California clay might be a bit too dense for them - I'd have to really amend the soil or put it in a raised bed somehow. I think it would be worth it if the price could come down JUST a smidge.
Sigh, I dont know what the lack of bloom problem is! The trunk is a good size, the leaves very healthy and its in full sun! I suppose I'll have no choice but to let nature take its course!
Try scratching something called Soft Phosphate into the soil beneath the shrub, then watering in well. This should nudge the plant toward flowering. It is supposed to be more readily available to plants than rock phosphate. It is also considered an organic amendment.
Is it planted in the ground?
Jungleman, can one buy the Soft Phosphate at Home Depot?
LiliMerci, yes, its planted in the ground. It was at least 15' maybe a bit taller before we trimmed it down to about 10' this summer or late spring.
This is a photo of the flower, taken at an Arboretum here in Ft. Lauderdale. The tree was huge!
You are lucky you can plant it in the ground. I'll ask my mom and see what she does to care for it. I know she use alot of natural compost stuff. The other thing she does is dig a small trench around her plants and sprinkle a little bit of that blue-green plant food and then cover the dirt back up. She said this allows plant feeding everytime she waters. Not to use alot or it may burn the plant.
That flower looks more like Michelia figo than Michelia alba
popper1, It may well be the M. Figo! Oops! I ended up giving this one away, as it bloomed so seldom! Mmm, I know I had a lovely pic of the M. A! Probably deleted! ah well......
My Michelia alba blooms well and started at a small size, although this year it bloomed less because I failed to hackback the jungle around it.
Speaking of tricks to get trees to bloom- I've heard of beating a tree with a broom stick. Anyone ever heard of or tried this?
LOL! I read that on another forum fauna! It didn't work for me as my Plumeria that I beat with a stick did not bloom - neither did the ones I did NOT beat with a stick.
Probably need to wear a tall, tapering black hat when one uses the broom to whack the tardy tree! After all, its Halloween time! Perfect timing to try this method! Mmm, perfect boots for the job too........ :)
I have purchased Soft Phosphate at Nurseries - find a good one that can also give you some local info on using it in your garden. Here, they said to use sparingly. It worked really well on a gardenia I had in a pot on the lanai.
Here is a picture of my mom's plant
Well Lili, this plant is lovely - and worth it for the leaves alone - but you should be able to get a flower or two soon. This is no smaller than the ones I saw in the nursery, and they were covered in July! It scented the whole nursery.
I took that picture a while back and yes, it bloomed ALL summer, multiple flowers at a time. I don't think a day went by w/o at least 2-3 flowers blooming. The smell is incredible. I can't explain it. It's not too sweet like the Gardenia, kind of lemony sweet?
They do not produce seeds and they are very hard to propegate. That's why they are so expensive. Mom bought her at an asian grocery store. She is going to try to root it by wrapping moss around it.. can't remember what the technique is called - having brain block....
Well, Bedouin, I'm going to put on my boots so I can use the broomstick on those Plumerias again! May be they'll bloom this time, even though it's kind of late in the year already. I love them but if they don't bloom next year, I'm getting RID of them! Too much work for something that doesn't bloom. To be honest, I think we had cool weather late into June this year and it did not get hot enough.
Thanks Jungleman, its certainly worth trying it!
LiliMerci, if your mom's tree should be blooming then something is definitely wrong with my tall tree! I'll take a pic of it tomorrow and post it. Note the very definite pruning at the top of it. Maybe thats an alternative to whacking it with a broom! If this does not shock it into blooming, then I'll have to reconsider keeping it! But oh, I do want to smell the flower! The one I took a pic of was located in a local Arboritum, the flower was so high, I could not smell it! But everything in my garden has to pay rent: fragrance, beauty, butterflies, etc, etc. Your mom probably does 'air layering'! 6 weeks from start to finish and hey presto, it blooms without having to mature, unlike a 'cutting'! I actually airlayered this week: Nyctanthus Arbor Tristis (tree of sorrow), Cananga Odorata (ylang ylang tree) and a couple of Brunfelsias - its definitely the easiest way to propogate.
http://www.learn2grow.com/gardeningguides/propagation/techniques/LearnHowToAirLayer.aspx
http://www.afn.org/~bonsai/airlayer.html
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/ornamentals/airlayer/airlayer.html
M alba is a hybrid that is sterile so it never produces seeds. It needs to be propagated by layering or by grafting.
M champaca is one of the parents. Flowers are similar in shape and fragrance but are yellow. It does not flower as freely as M alba but it produces seeds readily. It still tends to be pretty pricey.
Don't give up on the Alba...I had mine for 1 1/2 years and last week I finally got 1...yes just 1 flower but it was well worth the wait. I actually was worried I'd loose the plant, I have it in a large pot but it started dropping all of it's leaves and not looking good. I moved it into full sun (as some DG members suggested) and pow....after about 2 months...1 pretty bloom.
On the other hand I have the Champaca too, but that one also lost all of it's leaves, it's completely bare and the tips are starting to turn brown, I have tried cutting back on the watering but no new shoots in almost 2months. I think it may be a gonner!
Here's a pic of the Alba
Michelia Alba tree, large, healthy, not blooming.
Healthy leaves on the non blooming Michelia Alba tree
Oh my! Your tree is huge! You can't get rid of that. How would you dig it out? Here is a very good article, may be you can weed out some of the problem. Do you have it in a windy location? Did you move it recently? It can't be too much sun because your leaves look fine. May be you need to feed it "acid loving plant food".
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/fragrant/2005034256008093.html
BTW, I remembered what someone said about the fragrance now. I know it smells like Joy perfume, but how many people knows what Joy perfume smells like. The other one I've heard is that it smells like Juicy Fruit gum and it does smells like a sweeter Juicy Fruit gum.
Jungleman, in my mom's experience, her plant likes morning or filtered sun. Direct Georgia sun is too hot for it and will burn or wilt the leaves.
This message was edited Oct 23, 2008 11:24 AM
My trees are in full sun, in Florida, and bloom all year as long as they don't dry out.
Yes, the famous Joy perfume is extracted from the M.C. flowers! Wish I could get a whiff of one!
My tree is also in full, blazing sun! Strange, isnt it! I'm on a man-made island, with the base of coral. Sand on top of the coral so its not a problem of drainage. Over time I've amended the soil on top of the sand adding peat moss & compost and huge amounts of mulch to try to keep the moisture in the soil. So I'm pretty sure the soil is ok. I wasnt bothered about it not blooming, as I just presumed it was a matter of time, but following this thread, I'm a bit concerned now to say the least! I planted Cananga Odorata from seed and the trees are all bearing their fragrant flowers. And this M.C. was bought as a little tree so it should have had a huge advantage over the CA in blooming sooner! By the way, Chanel #5 is extracted from the Cananga Odorata flowers (ylang ylang tree). A pic of the flower.
So I was hoping to have Chanel #5 as well as Joy perfume in the garden! Oh well, I should be happy to have one out of two heavenly perfumes in the garden. Suppose I'm just greedy............
Mmmm! I LOVE Channel No. 5. My mother wears that. It reminds me of my childhood. She use to put in on for special occasion.
Oh, and I'm trying to germinate seeds for ylang ylang and not having any luck.
This message was edited Oct 23, 2008 10:45 PM
The picture of the Alba was really nice. That is the one they had in the nursery in San Gabriel. They have had quite a stock in there for awhile which is probably why they came down about ten dollars. They will have to come down another ten for this cheapskate!
The small ones were 79 (now 69) (5 gal) and the larger (10 gal) were around 120 (now 99 - I think). The 10 gal were about 8 ft. tall. Good sized, but just out of my price range right now. It is also mentioned in the Sunset Western Garden Book (my bible) that it is somewhat experimental, so I am a bit hesitant to just pet 'er in the ground at those prices. Right now, I am not nursing much in pots - other than succulents and aloes (things I can forget once in a while with the watering can).
My main focus is getting larger trees and shrubs in, to build a canopy of shade for the tropicals / subtropicals I want to grow in my jungle. Anything I buy at those prices needs to be able to start working architecturally in my garden.
Edited for forgotten note:
The perfume JOY, was created by Jean Patou, a very famous designer at the time, in France in the 1930s I believe. I have smelled this perfume, but I don't really remember what it was like, other than 'floral', a rather weak and vague word to a lover of flowers.
Jeff
This message was edited Oct 23, 2008 8:58 PM
This message was edited Oct 23, 2008 8:59 PM
I vaguely remembered JOY. Square bottle?
$65 is too steep for me for a plant. If my mom successfully root from air layering, I'll let you know. She told me all her senior friends are already lined up to get a plant, but I have first dib! I don't go to the asian store often, but if I do and they have the 3 gallons for $35, I'll let you know. It will be cheaper than the $65.
Well, everyone here obviously enjoys fragrance in their garden. Should anyone be interested, I have seeds available for SASA & SASBE, all fragrants from my own garden. Dmail me for mailing particulars should you be interested in growing these wonderful plants/vines/trees:
Artabotrys Hexapetalus - known as a vine but mine are all more of the shrub type, very easily trimmed and wonderfully responsive to air-layering.
Brunfelsia Nitida - shrub. Night fragrance of cloves. All the Brunfelsias air-layer very well.
Brunfelsia Americana - shrub. Night fragrance of cloves. Grows taller than B. Nitida I have found
Brunfelsia Surprise. - shrubs. I inadvertently mixed some B. seeds together! They could be: B. Americana, B. Gigantea and B. Lactea.
Cestrum Diurnum - tree. Fragrance of milk chocolate. Butterfly nectar.
Cananga Odorata - Ylang Ylang tree. Source of Chanel #5 perfume. 2nd attempt at airlayering this tree. 5 weeks to go till I see if roots have formed!
Passiflora 'Inspirations' - vine.
Telosma Cordata - vine. Frag a mix of roses & violets
a pic of Telosma Cordata flowers
This message was edited Oct 24, 2008 1:17 AM
Bedouin, I suggest you do a basic pH and salt test on your soil. I suspect your blooming woes are pH related. I don't know enough about Michelia to say if they are acid lovers per se...but I know a thing or two about this shell rock/limey soil we deal with and not all plants like it. Very interesting that your Cananga flowers as much as it does, and others on DG have the exact opposite experience that you do (based on some posts I have seen)- that their Cananga won't flower. I think pH is the big factor here. Would love some T. cordata, and thank you for such a beautiful picture.
Fauna, Dmail me for mailing particulars. Yes, any plant requiring an acid soil is in for a huge challenge here. We are on a man made island, the base of which is coral! We have high tides as well, but the MC is the only one thats so large with no flowers ever produced! During our construction I was able to gather pots and pots of the coral which was dug up, all be it small pieces. When having rocks, build a rock garden right! Well I'm hoping to use them to make a coral waterfall/stream/pond! I have a Miracle Plant potted up in pure sphagnum moss and perlite! No matter how much care I gave it when it was in the soil, it became sadder and sadder! Eventually, I gave up and hopefully it will begin to produce fruit again one day! Have you ever gone to Homestead's Fruit and Spice Park? They have these plants in very large pots, filled with the same mix. Who says one is too old to learn..... But if the MC's problem is ph, then I have to give up on it! I was at a garden centre today, and he also seemed to think the soil and salt was the problem! The photo I took of the flower was at the Deerfield Arboretum, but that quite a bit inland, so probably less salt & coral ph problem there.
I've sent responses to those who have requested seeds via Dmail.