Veggies/Tomato for Spring - What worked well for You?

I am sorting through seeds and order forms trying to make decisions for next years' garden. Since I'm new to the climate, I was hoping you guys/gals could tell me what you planted that did well or not so well, when you started your seeds indoors, if you purchased plants - where you feel they are the healthiest, largest, least expensive (in case we have to try more than once) and when you set them out. I'd also love any regional growing "hints" that you'd like to share. I have some heirlooms left from NC but not much as we didn't save any seeds. I'm leery of late fruiting varieties as it seems to have gotten very cold here already.

We've started putting together our raised lasagna beds for next years' crops and I'd like to get a jump on the seeds and supplies I might need to have a good gardening year. I have room to store some items, grow seeds indoors (no green house yet) and time to get organized if I plan well before spring gets here. Any suggestions or comments you can offer would be most helpful.

Thanks,
Kris

Welcome to the Pacific Northwest, Kris! As far as tomatoes go, unless you're working with a heated greenhouse, you're definitely correct in that you're not going to have much luck with growing late maturing/full sized tomatoes (or pepper or melon or grapes...).

We have a pretty long growing season here (as far as from last to first kill frosts), but at least in the majority of western Washington what we don't have is the heat to get those full season varieties of tomatoes to ripen. Luckily there are plenty of fun and interesting shorter season tomatoes, pepper and melons alike.

Besides the lack of heat the biggest issue with tomatoes here is late blight which loves our wet weather. The drier you can keep your tomato foliage here the better and it's not uncommon for folks to grow their tomatoes under plastic or to prune so that the foliage can dry more quickly.

As far as when to start, for tomatoes this year I personally started to start mine indoors in mid/late March and continued into mid April and thankfully I grow my tomatoes in a 'tomato house' so I was still able to plant them out on schedule despite our very cold, late start to the season this year.

As far as tomatoes, I grow pretty much exclusively heirloom varieties some of which have worked well and others not so much. What tomato varieties did you bring over from NC?

~Amanda

Amanda,

I have Tlacalula Pink, Lancaster County Paste, Eva's Amish Stripe and Sabre Ukrainian that we brought along. I also received some Zapotec Pleated, Giant Valentine, Purple Calabash, Fuererwerk, Hungarian Pink, Hillbilly and Big Rainbow from a friend for my son. I am probably picking up some heirloom seeds from Jeff Casey in Canada to try this year also - a group of cherries, Krosa's Pink Bulgarian, Russian #117and Elizabeth Stefancsik among them.

I am contimplating a hoop house with raisable sides to deal with the cold/wet issues for early spring here. Is that what you mean by 'tomato house'? I think the hoop house will be put up/down each spring and fall but that may be more ambitious that I really have time for. I understand King Cnty will need to permit any permanent structure and I'm not interested in the headache if I can avoid it.

We'll likely grow squash, lettuce, pole beans, rhubarb, raspberries, herbs and some pumpkins if I'm organized enough to get it all in this spring. That means planning well now for what I might need to build. My son would try to grow as many tomatoes as he can get his hands on but my guess is we'll be selling or giving away plants that we don't have room for next spring.

I'd love to know you opinion on any that we have already as well as any that you'd recommend we try. We'll be bagging blossoms to keep them safe to save our own seed this year. I will buy some new varieties to try, but I think space & time will be limited to add much volume.

kris

Kris -

I can't imagine that everybody putting in a greenhouse or shed is getting it permitted through King County. There must be some dispensation for these - at least to classify them as "semi-permanent" or something like that.

Ditto to everything that Amanda so eloquently said. I'd focus on cherry tomatoes and plan on rigging up something to cover them from September on to get the last ones to ripen. My SIL has had great success with that. She also grows them in used chimney tiles, which have been great for storing the heat (and they look pretty good, too).

Kris - you are allowed a 200 sq ft outbuilding. If it has plumbing, they might want to ding you for that, but I don't know firsthand.

As far as tomatoes & the warm-season crops: the past 2 summers have been abysmal for those of us who do not have a GH. Any structure that you can provide to keep them toasty & dry will bring the best results here. I was considering one of those portable 'carports' - the kind that you might erect for another car, a boat or yard equipment. They run about $200, but the covering is normally whitish/opaque. I am debating this one as I would need to make a custom zipped clear cover...sounds like a hassle right now. Charley's GreenHouse is a local company & they may have something that works for you.

The 2 varieties of toms that did rather well for me despite the weather are a roma type: Juliette, and a cherry type: Green Grape.

Peppers & Chiles were so-so; NO japanese eggplant; NO yard-long chinese beans; Tomatillos - both varieties did better than I expected; Peas - LOTS!
I purchase my seed from Territorial Seed Co. - an ooutfit in Oregon, specializing in that which does well for our cool, wet * tempermental weather.
My mantra remains "next year, next year..."

What incredibly interesting varieties of tomato you have, Kris. I haven’t personally grown any of those so I can’t say first hand how they do here, but like Katie said, cherries in general tend to do quite well here so those ones at least you shouldn’t have a problem with.

My ‘tomato house’ is wood framed, but a hoop house is absolutely the same idea and works extraordinarily well for growing tomatoes out here. And also like Katie and Katye said, it’s my understand that as long as it doesn’t have a full permanent foundation, a hoop house wouldn’t be considered a permanent structure though I’m sure the definition varies from area to area.

Katie, I love the idea of using old chimney tiles as heatsinks – how does she set them up for that? Are they mainly used in a raised bed fashion to keep the root temp up or does she make a little wall of them for the plants to grow against?

Katye, I almost went the carport route also – I think if you found a good sale that could be a very cost effective and simple construction way of getting a large cold frame up. You could always construct just the frame and then purchase plastic film to cover it. Charley’s is a great local place for greenhouse film.

There’s also another local company that sells the same 6mil UV coated greenhouse film as Charley’s but is actually notably cheaper in cost – they also have a lot of other agricultural construction supplies. I just picked up a roll of plastic from them a couple of weeks ago. Their name is currently eluding me, but if anyone’s interested in it I can dig out their catalog.

And I definitely second Kayte’s suggestion of Territorial – they’re entire stock is focused around what will grow here in the Norwest so you basically can’t go wrong with anything in their catalog.

I personally have a lot of success growing squash of all varieties, though some years I’ve run into problems with some pumpkins that I’ve gotten planted out too late (though at the same time I’ve grown some great Dill’s Atlantic Giants here so pumpkins too can do very well). Snap beans typically do great – some dry beans can be an issue only because at the time you’re wanting to dry them on the vine the sky opens up and drowns them so in a lot of years I’ve had to bring mine inside to finish drying.

Rhubarb and raspberries absolutely love it here and many herbs do great as long as you make sure they have good enough drainage in the winter.

For tomatoes I also love the Green Grape. The OP tomato varieties that I’ve personally grown over successive years and have had steady success with are:

Cherries and Currants - Austin's Red Pear, Beam's Yellow Pear, Blondkopfchen, Broad Ripple, Brown Berry, Cherry Roma, Czech's Exellent Yellow, Gold Nugget, Gold Rush Currant, Green Grape, Isis Candy, Jaune Flamme, Lemon Drop, Oregon Cherry, Riesentraube, Snow White, Sweet Pea Currant, Variegated and Velvet Red

Drying/Romas/Sauce - Black Plum, Cream Sausage, Golden Mama (OP, but still has PVP), Green Sausage, Little Mama (also still has PVP), Martino's Roma, Orange Banana, Power's Heirloom, Principe Borghese, Purple Russian, Roman Candle, Saucey, Sausage, Speckled Roman and Striped Roman

Slicers – Legend and Oregon Star

Others: Plum Lemon, Sibera, Siberian and Tasty Evergreen,

~Amanda

My brother and SIL decided they didn't want their fireplace, so they took out the chimney for it. They ended up with several 3 1/2 (?) foot tall chimmey liners. The material is about 2 inches thick and are rectangular in shape - oh, about 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 (I'm so bad with measurements). Anyway, they're made of clay. She just stuck them on end and filled them with soil. The idea was to keep root temp up and get them away from the slugs. An added benefit is that they're high enough to harvest without using your back.

She grouped them in a line with a little space in between and then made a small bed in front of them (maybe 6 inches up) out of pieces of brick from the same project. Then she put strawberries in there. At the end of the summer, she made an A-frame sort of support out of leftover PVC pipe and put plastic over it to extend the ripening season into October.

She did say that she had looked at some used ones and they sell for about $20, I think, so others must be finding uses for them.

I don't know much about growin' vegetables, but I do like lemon cucumbers. They seem to me to ripen pretty easily here, too.

Thank you, I knew you would send me in the right direction.

Katye - I'm looking into hoop houses, no permanent floor. I might need to stretch the 200 sf limit, but we'll see. I found some for around $400, not sure yet if that includes the plastic. I might have to plead with DH to have help to build it. A kit seems easier if I'm doing it alone, but have a supply list if there are 2 of us, maybe cheaper that way. I'll investigate. I'll add some cherry toms to the list and stay away from mid-late/late varieties in general. I'll also take a look at Territorial and see what they have.

Katie - I love the chimney tiles, might start to look for some once I get better organized and make some decisions. Sounds like it would work great.

SpookyC - I'll pay particular attention to the varieties that worked for you when adding seeds. I especially like the drying, romas and sauce suggestions as that's probably most of what we'll use. Some slicers, but I'm really the only raw tomato eater here.

If I get organized enough, I'll see if I can post some photos so you can see what we're working with.

As with everything here these days it's a work in progress.

LMK if you need an extra pair of hands on a weekend day and we'll try to find a time I can come out. Hope your daughter's arm is healing well.

In all of that, Wow lot it get in my head, Knock Knock. LOL
In all the listings of tomatoes the one I didn't hear (read) is Early Girl that is the only one I can grow here without the special houses, Don't have that. this year had no luck with anything, course didn't really try much with the weird spring we had this year. Did well last year.

I take that back, Katye what was the little cherry tomato you gave me at Rach's for Clowys little garden that didn't happen, just didn't work out the way I planed So Sad. But anyway can you remember? I didn't think it would amount to much, kept it in the GH, fed it, transplanted to a bigger pot, still nothing. Got mad at it and planted it outside, told it to live or die. I give. It took off like a gang buster. Was doing great till are first frost last week. Now its full of green tomatoes a hanging upside down in the gh, My DH watched Cisco and thats what Cisco said to do.
LOL

Thanks for the offer Katie, I'm still kind of puttering around. Still having stump and tree work done - great job by the way (Thanks again Katye). Moving dirt and making future garden decisions....very slowly it seems. Still moving plants around that builder (not landscape designer) placed around the house. I can't seem to compost live plants so I'm using them in other ways hoping I'll like them better mixed my way.

Coli's arm is doing well. Thanks for asking. Pins are working (x-rays/surgical follow up this week) and will get removed in 3 weeks. Cast gets changed next Friday and only 5 more weeks to go. Now if I can just keep her from sticking things in the cast to itch or hide I'll be all set. The joys of 8 year olds.

I've pretty much settled on the idea of needing a hoop house, just need to find the 'right' one. Then, of course, I'll be back next year asking the same questions hoping to gleen some more insight after I have a growing year to relate to.

Off to search the web.

Hi Jan,

It's just a little warmer down here than it is where you are, but I still get plenty of rain. I've also had good luck with Yellow pear. I agree on the cherry tomato suggestion. I think the best performer I've had is 'Sweet Million'. Unbelievable production! I have also liked 'Green Zebra'. I think the smaller ones do have a better chance to ripen, but I do expect to be ripening tomatoes in my kitchen. :)

I don't have room for hoop houses, so I usually grow my tomatoes in huge tree-sized black plastic pots, ugly as they are, because the black warms the soil, and it's also easier to get all the way around the plants....

Oregon State University has a research program for tomatoes that grow well in our climate. I've found that I do seem to have better luck with their varieties of "big" tomatoes. Most of them have "Oregon" somehow in the name. You might want to give some of those a try. I grew "Willamette' last year and was very happy with it, and this year I've been trying 'Legend', and it's also performed well, especially considering our year.

Here's a link about them:: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/news/story.php?S_No=281&storyType=garden

Glad to hear your daughter's arm is healing well.

Thank very much for the explanation on the setup, Katie. That’s great and something that might be worth giving a try for some of those other more tender plants. I’ll have to keep my out on Freecycle for anyone taking down their chimney.

I’ve also had a lot of success with lemon cucumbers – and they’re just plain a lot of fun.

Kris, I do find the processing tomatoes to be the most useful since they can actually be stored. And even though I usually grow them covered, this year I had an unexpected move and had to pot up what tomatoes I could salvage but even at that the Power’s and Striped Roma have still ripened without the extra heat from a plastic house.

Certainly Early Girl grows fabulously here, but it’s a hybrid, not an open pollinated variety. For those who don’t save their own seeds Early Girl, Lemon Boy, Pik Red and Sweet Tangerine are all very prolific slicer style tomatoes that are great choices for our climate.

~Amanda

You guys have me inspired to grow tomatoes next year. Judging from the critters that have been snacking on my other plants, though, I'll need to get a fence up. I bought a couple of beautiful ornamental kale for my pots in front and the rabbits have gnawed them up one side and down the other (that's how I know it's not the deer). I apparently have 2 who have taken up permanent residence in the front yar, which is okay, as long as they don't get themselves caught by Sahara in the back.

Sue - great link of OSU's research. I went there and yet keep forgetting what it is that OSU is known for (eek).

Spookycharles, it might be worth actually posting a WANT on freecycle. I'm amazed at what people get by just asking for it. I should probably do the same up here.

Kris - glad that Coli's arm is healing so well. The first (and last) time I was in a cast, I ended up sawing most of it off with a steak knife (that's all I had laying around). It got hot and itchy and smelly and I just couldn't stand it anymore. I was about 30 at the time, so those crazy antics don't come only from 8-year-olds. :-) Maybe she can get the removable kind on her second go 'round so she can start to get the strength back in her arm and keep it clean. I would insist on that were I to go through it again.

Kathy, in my West Seattle house I had some of those chimney liner type things (found them under the house). I used them as a little "fence" along the street and grew hydrangea in them. It was a small, very shady spot and it worked well.

As for casts, I broke my arm when I was 15 and by the time they took the cast off (six weeks I think), I had made a mess or the inside of my elbow by sticking things down to scratch. There's just GOT to be a better way!!

Carole - I think you were a trend-setter (about the chimney-liners, not the cast. Oh, okay, probably about the cast, too. You're right. There has to be a better way.)

I’ve been there, Katie. It’s deer doing the munching in my yard now, but in my previous garden it was rabbits, rabbits everywhere and they happily decimated entire crops until I put up a three foot fence around the veggie garden then oddly enough all my vegetables stopped disappearing...

And it’s quite true about going the WANT route – that’s the sort of thing that some people might not even realize that someone else might want. Between your idea and Carole’s, I’m going to have to get me some of those liners.

I love visual of the steak knife – I should have thought of that when I broke my arm.

~Amanda

Tils - it was Sungold - mine croaked. Did not like being outside in April during the hardening off period. Particularly that memorable snow day - that pointed to the necessity of some sort of protection for getting seedlings out & keeping them sheltered.

Kris - there is another place that has interesting hoop houses - I think the name is Growers' Supply. I found it on the web while looking for a source for various sized GH framing.

Sorry to hear that, mine I left in the GH and babyed it, till I findly said you got to go. Planted in front of the deck and it went nuts. Got lots of cherrys of it. Want to try it again. DH ate them all. LOL
Thanks

I'll look at the Oregon research tonight when I get to sit at the computer-(when it gets dark), looks like good information.

Spooky, most of the varieties we've selected are for processing - paste and sauce. My little guy want to make katsup... we'll see how that goes. It's all a work in progress.

Katie - somehow it doesn't surprise me that you'd be inventive enough to figure out a way to remove the cast if inclined. I think it's creative types that the cast gives so much trouble to - always trying to make adjustments. Coli is one of those, although I hope she's not as inventive as you are. Great idea about the removable cast for the next go around. I'll check into that on Friday.

Katye - I'll check out GS tonight too, we're trying to finalize the garden layout and I need to make HH selection before I can finish everything else.

Now for the next crazy question - anyone have a framer, handyman, builder that needs some work or that they'd recommend? I am contimplating buy a old tobacco barn style cedar shed and having it reconstructed on my property. Can't really do this myself - limited building skills but would like to have it done right. You guys have been so good with the information and suggestion I thought I'd start here.

I'm still trying to get photos up, maybe tonight one of the kids will show me how.

Katie - if we're successful, I can share tomato plants this spring.

I love your son, Kris. He always thinks outside the box. Why not make ketchup? That's a great idea!!

Just thought I would throw in my two cents. First post in a very long time!

I planted a variety of cherrys, pink, black, white, red, orange, and yellow.
The sungold was probably the most prolific, but the flavor of the black's is to die for!
Of the larger variety, the pink mortgage lifter made some monster pinks with thick flesh,
but once again, the black prince and other blacks had the best flavor by far.
I was surprised at how few of the green varieties ripened well, but the flavor is tangy and super sweet.

I will never plant a red tomato again! Even the heirloom varieties paled in comparison.
I have thousands and thousands of seeds drying all over the house and my sons have been coming over
every weekend to finish the greenhouse. So I should have plenty of seeds/plants to share next Spring.

I will look at the tags to get the exact names. I order all of my heirloom seeds from Baker Creek in Missouri. Sweet young couple running a large business.
http://rareseeds.com/seeds/

Thanks for the link to Baker Creek - they have Tomatillo seed I was looking for earlier in the year, and the Black Cherry got me ready to drool.
I Planted Black Krim this year - the results were abysmal. However, I will try it again next year as I prefer to give things another chance or two. I won't evaluate the negatives, as this was a rather cool summer. Heat deficit = tomato deficit.
I know what you mean about the "greens", though. Mine (Green Grape) ripened so nicely indoors & are super sweet.

Seeds interest me; if & when you are ready to share, please count me in and thank you very much!

Thanks for weighing in on tomatoes. I haven't tried any of the blacks yet but your descriptions have convinced my son we should add some.... he loves seeds. I'm not a 'green' tomato fan (yet).

Neofarmer I'd love to hear more about your greenhouse if you'd care to share. I will plant some of the reds so I have a fair comparison basis here to the taste developement. I like the pinks and yellows more, but there's always room to expand horizons. If you truly have larger amounts and want to share, I'd love to try any of the black that you recommend. I'll probably order some seeds from Baker Creek - grandma ordered a catalogue for her 'favorite' gardner so we should have one soon.

Kris - Green Grape is a cherry tom, chartreuse when ripe, not to be confused with green as in unripe.

Also - I was online looking at framing, GH film, ad nauseum. checked Charley's & Grower's Supply. So many choices...
I'm sure if someone comes up with a reference for a handyman type, he would be put to good use here.

Katye-you were looking for Tomatillo seeds? Oh, rats, I've got some (they didn't do well this year, either, though) If I'd known, I'd have sent them to you.

(My sungold didn't make it either. The Sweet Million was a late-season purchased substitute when I couldn't bear the idea of no tomatoes at all-it did well, I've got a giant orange Tupperware bowl full of ripening ones on my kitchen counter. I'm threatening to make tomato soup)

Maybe we (Or all of you who are closer anyhow) should consider combining an order of seeds to share-that could be a lot of fun. Those Black Cherry tomatoes sound wonderful-every year I try to grow different varieties-those sound like a very good candidate.

I just remembered . . . Pixy says she got her greenhouse from BC Greenhouses in Canada at a significantly lower cost than Charley's. There would be shipping if you went that route, of course . . .

Katye - I misunderstood, thought it was green tomato. Sounds like something we should try.

Katie - I've been looking on line at greenhouses, cold frames... I've not checked BC yet. If my online connection holds I'll do that this morning and see what I can find. Thanks for the suggestion.

Have decided that I need to grade and level the site before we put the 'potting' shed together. Found some interest on Craig's list for framing needs, we'll see how that works out. I'm going to take the building and we'll figure out how to make it work.

Productive weekend though, have 12 of the 15 bed frames made, just 4 more to go. I took pictures, now to get them uploaded (not technically adept as you can tell).

Hope everyone enjoyed their weekend with the great weather.

Kris - check with Pixydish. She has some opinions on what type of greenhouse materials work well.

Check out this thread in container gardening:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/908768/