I'm pretty sure I have seen this thing on the forum but can't for the life of me find it! The Satsuma orange tree is being inundated with leaf miners and upon close inspection I found a lot of eggs and tiny little cats. This one has grown enough to see well and before we treat the tree with a systemic, I wanted to know if these guys are friend or foe. It is (sorry) a nasty-looking thing... all gooey and slimy looking.
Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Thanks!
Barb
Barb, you are so lucky! That little faux bird-dropping beauty is a Giant Swallowtail cat.....definitely a friend!
They're also called "orange dogs'.
This message was edited Oct 5, 2008 12:48 PM
That makes a big, beautiful butterfly. Please don't treat that tree...that would kill them. I've got some also...besides the citrus trees, they also use Hop Trees.
For real? Well how about that!
I have just begun to learn about keeping b'fly cats safe and built a little cage to put over the bronze fennel after a rogue cardinal made a meal of 11 Black Swallowtail cats. :( There are five more munching away and growing very nicely.
Do I need to move these guys to safe quarters? Some are so tiny you can hardly see them. Will they be safe from predation? There are two bird feeders about 10 feet from the tree.
Thanks again.
Barb
Here is what it looks like underneath!
Oh my goodness! What a beauty that one is!!
Will the growing cats be safe on the orange tree? There is a bluebird mealworm feeder to one side of it and two more bird feeders to the other side where a bunch of cardinals feed. I would love to see them mature to adult form.
If you want to try to hand raise and release; this is what I do. I take a Glad container and cut the top out and replace with fine mesh fabric. Then keep leaves of the host plant fresh by using the bottom of a pudding cup and floral foam covered with plastic wrap. A piece of paper towel makes for easy cleanup of frass.
If you have more questions about raising caterpillars come to the Hummer and Butterfly Forum, there is a "sticky" at the top of the forum with all sorts of info and links.
Sheila_FW
Thanks, Sheila. Yes, I definitely want to give hand raising a try. Looks like I have a bit of reading to do.
Thanks, everyone, for your help. Heaven knows I will probably have more questions. :)
Barb
Barb, the GSTs are one of the easiest to raise in a cage.....the plant cuttings don't wilt very fast and the cats aren't little piggies like the Monarchs. Don't you think Sheila?
I wouldn't leave them on the plants outside unless you have a sleeve to go over the branch. There are just too many predators that find cats irresistible.
Good luck Barb! It's a very rewarding hobby!
Roxanne
Thanks again, Roxanne and Sheila. I counted 14 that I can see. Will they need to overwinter as pupa? I guess I should go read before I start asking questions. Be back later!
Barb
Most definately Roxanne!! The Monarchs eat like they won't see another meal and poop constantly. The GST is much slower eating and it's host plants as you said, don't wilt as bad. I use Rue, but wish I had a citrus tree.
Barb....as for the overwinter....I wouldn't think so in your area. Mellielong is from Florida and will be happy to answer that question if you dmail her.
I'm here! And so excited to see a Giant ST cat. We have so many of them at the museum where I volunteer. I think it's still very early for them to be overwintering, but then again, some butterflies get easily confused. I still have Zebra ST chrysalids from March!
Giant STs eat citrus plants so they're fairly common in FL. They are easy to raise, too. I haven't had any in a while at my house, but I volunteer at the Museum of Science and Industry and we always have them in the lab where we raise our butterflies. They're probably the most popular butterfly and everyone always "oohs" and "ahhs" over them. I'm always happy to tell them that they're very common and eat citrus.
Because they aren't poisonous, the birds would definitely go after them. That disguise of their only works so well. And he only looks slimy! Pet him a little and you'll see - just watch out for those stinkhorns!
Here's an angry, full-grown cat. He was mad I was moving him while cleaning the tanks.
Melanie
Haha Melanie, I forgot about the stinkhorns.....PU!
I have a small Lemon tree, and like Barb, the leafminers make it look really ugly. But, I grow it for the GSTs so it doesn't matter, I can always buy lemons at the store LOL
Melanie, you always love to stir up the stink horns on the cats! LOL!! I don't guess I have ever had the GSTs draw the horns on me. But the Black Swallowtails and really testy about being shaken or touched.
I look forward to your pictures and experiences over on the butterfly forum Barb!! Good luck on raising them.
Sheila_FW
You know, the Giant STs have always been pretty nice to me except for one day when I was at the museum. I was trying to get them on the new food and they were the meanest bunch of cats I'd seen. That big one in the photo was being super mean so I took his picture. It always helps to illustrate what I'm talking about so I figured I could use a good stinkhorn photo.
Melanie
I went to our Fall Round Up (plant swap in TX) and was fortunate enough to get a Satsuma orange tree from Siggy one of our DG members!! So look out next season, I will have something besides Rue to temp them with!
Good for you, Sheila! I am in a quandry now because the remaining five that I have (Big Bad John either escaped or a bird managed to pick him off when the cage was outside in the sun) don't seem to care for the mature leaves on the Satsuma. I'm out of the new leaves... so what do I do now? Going out to buy another citrus tree isn't in the budget right now.
Barb
You live in FL, and should have some type of citrus around wild. They eat Rue, hop tree, hercules club, wild lime, prickly ash, and orange jasmine.
I'm growing a lemon tree, Hercules Club and a Hop tree for the GST. I've been too sick to check my plants but I have seen these butterflies so I'm hoping that since I've planted their host they are using them. This is my first year seeing these butterflies in my yard.
Good luck to you Barb.
If they get hungry enough they'll eat the old leaves. I know you're farther north than I am, but don't any of your neighbors have citrus? I think it's a law in FL that you must have a citrus tree, LOL!
Melanie
Deborah, hope you feel better soon!
Melanie, if it isn't a law, it should be! lol
LOL! Melanie, it's an unwritten law, I do believe. When I moved down here 7 months ago the only trees in the (new) subdivision were here in my sister's yard and they were Bradford pear and a few apples and pears that I had helped her plant late last year. Oh yeah, and a nice peach tree. Other than that, nada. Here's a pic I took when I first got here...
And this one was taken last month... There is still a lot of work to do and next spring we are going to plant more citrus and a lot more nectar and larval food plants.
Barb
Barb, I love the screened in porch and the 'blank' slate you have before you. Oh to have the chance to begin again.
This is my first year to get serious about host plants after reading the various postings of Debnes. I've planted the hercules club plant, the wild lime,already had lemon trees, and then planted a bunch of orange seeds that got three or four inches high. I've probably had only one or two giant swalowtail eggs on my hercules club and none on the lemon trees. However, the prickly wild lime has probably had at least a hundred eggs laid although most have disappeared for whatever reason. A few weeks ago I bought about 6 rue plants and have noticed twelve little cats on them and fewer than normal on the prickly wild lime. I don't know the reason for the change except I bought some four foot tall cages to put the plants in to protect the cats and put them close to the limes and maybe that's scaring them away from the limes. I did find one fairly large cat eating the orange tree seedlings that Debnes suggested that could be planted. My first swallowtail hatched and I think maybe its not fully developed. Does someone have an experience on the emerging of the giant swallowtail?
Jameso
I have raised a few and have one chrysalis and three last instar cats now. Do you have a picture? By "hatching" do you mean just out of the egg, or emerging from the chrysalis?
Sheila_FW
I mean emerging from the chrysalis. It looked like an airplane. The wings from tip to tip (left side of the body to the tip on the right hand side of the body) appeared the proper length. But the width (head to tail) was narrow. I figured the two sets of wings on each side were stuck together and just needed time to separate but after 4 days that hadn't happened. I'm in the Rio grand Valley this week and won't be back in east Texas until Friday so I can't send pictures but my wife said the butterfly appeared dead. My time frame on monarch's flying off was one and one-half day a compared to an article that said that it would only take one and one-half hour for them to fly off..but I haven't found an article to guide me on the GST. It fluttered its wings some..maybe I should have set it on a nector flower. I have tow more that should emerge next week and I'd like to see them make it so I would appreciate any your expertise on what to do.
Jameso
They shouldn't be much different in time than the Monarch as to the length of time it takes for the wings to be extended fully and dry. Could it have fallen to the bottom of the cage as it emerged? That happens sometimes and it can cause the wings to be permanently crumpled.
Also....
I did have a Black Swallowtail earlier in the year that seemed to be unable to get out of the chrysalis and after about 30 minutes I gave assistance. Unfortunately it may have been in that position since the previous day because it's wings did not extend and appeared dry. Some of the BSTs are in the pupa stage for a very long time and need to be misted with water (vs. rain) periodically to avoid drying on the inside. Of course I may be totally wrong with that assumption.
I do wish you success with the other two.
Thanks Sheila
I will try the mist because it was in the chrysalis a long time.
Jameso
