We have a pond (roughly 12 by 15 feet, and 12-20" deep) installed under the canopy of a large silver maple.
Not our choice--the previous owners installed it in this location.
Moving the pond to another location would be nearly impossible: for starters, our soil is a 6-12" layer of heavy clay on top of limestone bedrock, so digging a pond elsewhere would be a monumental task. Secondly, we can't easily take out the 25-year-old tree; it is only about 15 feet from our house, so the expense of professional tree removal would run between $500 and $1000 (we know, we've priced it.)
This summer, we discovered the liner (which we replaced 4-5 years ago with high-quality, thick EPDM) is failing, due in part to tree roots pushing up the bottom of the pond. A couple large, heavy limbs fell due to storms this spring and summer, which also made some small tears in the liner. We've patched, to no avail.
Part of me is ready to fill in the pond and call it quits. But we really *like* having a pond...it was one of the things that attracted us to the house, and it's nice to hear a waterfall gurgling when you sit on the deck.
So...I'm resigned to the prospect of pulling out the liner, digging up the tree roots, deepening the pond by a good 6-12 inches (we've had a problem with herons this summer) and replacing the liner, either this fall or next spring. Probably this fall, just because I don't want to risk further cracks and holes in the middle of winter, when getting in the pond to save fish and plants will be far less fun than now.
Questions:
1) If we install a vertical barrier of metal flashing between the pond and the tree, would it divert the tree roots successfully? (Granted, it would have to run the entire length of the pond, or the roots will simply snake around the barrier.)
2) Where's the best place to buy a piece of liner this large? (I can go to the big box stores and/or garden centers; is that the best route, or is there a mail order source that would be cheaper and/or better quality?)
Any other tips or help are welcome...I think we're truly between a rock and a hard place!
Pond liner and tree roots - help, please
A good place for pond liners is bestnest.com or try on ebay just watch what your shipping will be. I think your gonna run into trouble though unless you get rid of the tree. The metal would have to be pretty thick to stop tree roots and you will never be able to prevent the weather from dropping limbs on your pond.
You're right on both counts..we've lived here for 8 years, and the pond was in place when we moved in.
We're resigned to the fact that the pond and the tree roots are going to fight each other for survival, until we can afford to have the tree removed.
We've got three other silver maples in the front yard, all of the same age and posing similar problems. The worst of those three is near our septic field lines. Fortunately it's also in the way of the power lines running into the house, and it now sports a nice big fluorescent pink "X" on it, which means our electric co-op is cutting it down for us sometime in the next few weeks ;o)
If I could find a rigid/preformed liner large enough for this area, I'd do that in a heartbeat, but I don't think anyone makes 'em that big.
You better option monetarily would be to remove the Silver Maple. Those same roots that are plagueing your pond will also crack your house foundation. They are notorius for their shallow vigorous root systems and you are just beginning to experience the problems this tree is going to cause you, especially because it's so close to your home. The tree has a potential spread of 50 ft', putting large limbs directly over your roof. Obviously the larger this tree gets the more expensive it will be to remove it, and you may very well one day wish you had done it "back when". It's a bad tree in a worse place. Wish I had easier advice to give you.
snapple, I'd agree except we're on a crawl space, and there aren't any roots in the crawlspace.
Yes, we do plan to eventually take the tree out. But right now I have a pond that will only hold about a foot of water because of the liner problems, and I have roughly 4-5 weeks until it gets too cold for me to want to be out there in it ;o)
They will get to the foundation footer, it's just a matter of time.
http://www.pondliner.com/
You could poison the tree with brush killer after the leaves go off. Its a drastic step but would solve your problem for now until you can get it cut down. Snapple's right it will wreak havoc on your foundation footers. If you poison make sure you get a few bottles of the stuff down into the ground at the base of the tree. about 2' at a couple of spots around the trunk. Ortho makes a good brush killer. At least for now it would stop your root growth.
If you want to kill the tree -peel the bark off in a complete circle around the tree (not the whole tree just a small section but all the way around).
I think what mother mole is referring to is called 'girdling' a tree. You have to use a chain saw or something similar and cut a ring around the whole tree on its trunk, like say a couple feet off the ground. Trees draw nutrients from the soil through their roots and transport that through a 'layer' just under the bark. (I don't know all the fancy names for all that process :)
Since the tree could pose a threat to your home, maybe your insurance would pay part of its removal? Especially since there have been limbs fall off in the past.
I had one of these in my yard too. They will RUIN your foundation, your sidewalks, mine ruined the neighbors garage floor. ect ect.
About the pond part, though, I don't think any kind of liner will work. The roots will grow through it. You could try preformed ponds and maybe put two or three together to make it look larger. Maybe one could be built up and the other buried, one emptying into the other by a waterfall?
My 2 cents worth.....have the tree cut down and have the stump removed.
That way you have the digging done to enlarge your pond.
Thanks, but actually, that won't help the pond digging - the tree is a good 5-8 feet away from the edge of the pond.
I understand everyone's concern about the tree (hey, I have to LIVE with the thing, and its roots and its leaves, branches, helicopter seeds, etc. ;o)
But the fact is, the tree is 25-30 years old.
It is not an immediate threat to the foundation walls of the house.
The tree and the pond have co-existed for at least 9 years (we've been in the house for more than 8 now, and the pond was at least a year or two old when we moved in.)
Taking out the tree is in our plans, but for the next month or so, I have to focus on getting the pond ready for winter, given that the liner has failed, and a cold spell could mean disaster for my fish and plants if I don't fix it now.
So...what I was (am) really wanting to know: are there any measures we can take to keep the roots from wreaking havoc on another liner, so we can get 5 (or more) years out of the next liner, whether the tree stays or goes during that time?
I'm running back out the door as I have a large crew and several trucks here from the electric company. Coincidentally, they are cutting down a large tree. LOL Part of it broke off in the Ike winds and the other part is teetering above the primary electric line. I thought I should let them know and they got out here QUICK!
Anyway, you might want to check out bamboo barrier. Normally it's used as a ring around a bamboo patch. If you could lay it flat and put the liner on top, it might buy you some time. I don't think it's cheap though. Another thought, have you ever seen those cheap pools that are a hard plastic ring (actually a big rectangle that you connect the ends to make the ring) that you drop a liner into? The hard plastic pool can be cut with a saw. :) We've reused two of them.
We got our liner from Harrison's Ponds. The liner is great and they offer a good price if you want the underlayment too. I had mine within a few days but we are both in Ohio. http://www.harrisonsponds.com
Going back outside! You should see how quick these guys can shimmy up a tree. LOL
My tree was probably 30 years old, I am guessing because that is the age of the house.
It was probably 20 feet from my flower bed.
Every spring I had to literally dig, saw and chop the roots out of my bed before I could plant anything. Large masses of roots all over.
I finally cut the tree down, because I just could not keep up with the roots.
I don't think a liner will last 5 years. Maybe a couple.
In my experience the trees grow rapidly. Maybe you could line it with something heavier or a couple layers.
Old carpet works but I don't know how long it will take for the roots to get through.
The pond has gone through two liners that we know of...at least one that the previous owners installed, which we replaced about 4 or 5 years ago. So yes, it *will* hold up for 4-5 years, but when you buy heavy, 15-year liner, you'd like to get your money's worth and make it las as long as possible ;o)
I second the old carpet idea. Roots seem to have a heck of a time getting through it and it lasts a surprisingly long time. If you call some home improvement centers they may be able to get you in touch with the folks that tear up old carpet from apartments and such who would be only to happy to give you the old carpet if you haul it away.
Would it be possible for you to build an above ground pond since you have to replace the liner anyway? That way you could locate it anywhere in your yard.