Sick Chicken? Please Help.

I'm beginning to feel like a bit of a paranoid mama, but I think my newest girl has a bit of a cold. She is not coming out of the hen house unless I go in and pick her up and bring her out. At first I just thought she was shy and/or quiet, but DH was just sitting out with her and she perched up on the back of his Adirondack chair and sneezed on the back of his head 5 times within less than 5 minutes and took a couple really runny poops. (he's now in washing his hair and changing his clothes before dinner guests come) ;-)

I was paranoid from other recent posts and smelled her nostrils and they smell just fine (at least i think they do).

Do you gals think this sounds like she's sick? What should I do?

They do catch colds and other viruses--just like we do. But I would keep her separate and warm and see how it goes. The real medicine women will know what combinations of garlic/ACV and herbs could help.

Thanks Cat, standing by until others come along with medicine advice.

One quick clarification, she was already introduced to the other two. So are you suggesting I pull her back out of the flock (note: I always feel silly using the term flock with just three knowing most of you have lots and lots of chickens!)?

I would--just in case. Sometimes the higher the viral load the worse the disease. If she is shedding viruses you want them to be exposed to as little as possible. Of course if it is just a slight cold it wouldn't really matter.

Yes, definitely isolate her from the others--they might still get ill, but why continue to expose them to whatever germs she is spreading any more than necessary?

How long have you had her? What does her poop look like? Has she been wormed or treated for mites/lice that you know of? Is she eating? Drinking? Laying? Does she move around and act normal, but just doesn't leave the coop? Or does she pretty much stay still in one spot--and if so, is she sitting or standing? Does she walk normally? Any other obvious symptoms? Put your ear to the side of her chest and listen--does she sound congested or raspy?

My gut feel is to consider worms, mites or coccidiosis, all of which can cause diarrhea, lethargy and coughing/sneezing.

Simple steps that may help are to grate some garlic onto her food, add ACV to her water and give her oatmeal and/or cooked rice. Live-culture yogurt should also help. All of these will help firm up the diarrhea, but may not treat the underlying cause.

You can dust her with poultry dust or 5% sevin powder, or spray with a dog flea/tick spray to kill mites/lice. Ivermectin will take care of most internal worms, although this is an off-label use, it is quite common and very effective. Sulmet or corrid will treat coccidiosis effectively.

If you suspect a respiratory infection, tylan or erythromycin are the best OTC treatments. Baytril is generally considerred the best, but requires a prescription from your vet.

DON'T do all this at once! make your best guess as to the cause and treat for that first.

Suze

Thanks Suze. I have a dinner guest coming any minute. I take a closer look at her later tonight and get back to you and any others that respond between now and then.

Just a note. Corn is a 'hot' feed and may help raise her temp and bolster her immune system as most health problems lower it. Or other grains

Hi Suze & Grow,
I've set up a dog crate in the garage for her for now. I'm going to try to answer each question to give you a better idea of the situation:

1. How long have you had her? 4 days.

2. What does her poop look like? It was healthy and normal looking the first day or two, but the last day or so it seems to be smaller and more watery. I thought I read somewhere that they pass a watery poop every 5th poop or something like that, but its all the time.

3. Has she been wormed or treated for mites/lice that you know of? I don't know, but I'll call the seller in the morning. He shows his birds and came well recommended, so my gut says yes, but I'll check just in case. I checked her for mites under the wings and near the vents and all looked very good.

4. Is she eating? Drinking? She eats and drinks when I'm around, but most of the day Wednesday thru today she seemed to always just been sitting on the roost.

5. Laying? She's not of laying age yet.

6. Does she move around and act normal, but just doesn't leave the coop? Because she's new to me, I'm not sure whats normal for her. She stays on the roost. On Wednesday she stayed in the hen house and chicken yard, was a bit reluctant to come out, but then started coming out by mid-day. Thursday she was so lively in the morning, I decided to let her out into my whole yard with the other two girls. She was fine, just went up on something anytime one of them approached her. She stayed in the hen house all day Friday, but came out when I got home from work and followed me around the yard. She's been in the hen house all day today and only when I went and picked her up did she come out.

7. Or does she pretty much stay still in one spot--and if so, is she sitting or standing? She's mainly perched on the roost. At one point I saw her in the nesting box, but I think that was for self defense so taht the other two couldn't get to her as easily.

8. Does she walk normally? Yes.

9. Any other obvious symptoms? Dunno, just the sneezing and runny poop.

10. Put your ear to the side of her chest and listen--does she sound congested or raspy? She doesn't sound congested or raspy, but I did notice while she was eating corn in my lap that she had a bit of a wheeze sound. I couldn't hear that through her chest, it sounded more in her throat and I'm not entirely sure that it wasn't her talking just a bit...

My gut feel is to consider worms, mites or coccidiosis, all of which can cause diarrhea, lethargy and coughing/sneezing.
-- How do I narrow it down from these three things? I know with dogs and cats you'd see the worms near the bum or in their feces. Same case with chickens? I haven't seen any mites, but I won't rule it out. What is coccidiosis? Is that the eating or drinking of fecal contaminated substances?

What I've done so far:
1. Put her in a dog crate in the garage. That way she's out of the draft of what I have to offer in my garden shed and far away from my other two.
2. Gave her some corn this evening.
2. Mixed up corn and garlic in her standard feed.

Any other tips? What's ACV -- where can I get it, the feedstore?

THANKS!

ACV=unfiltered apple cider vinegar--Bragg's is a common brand. You usually have to get it at a Health Food Store. It is more of a tonic than a condiment.

My DH takes Apple Cider Vinegar and Honey each night... I wonder if what we have is unfiltered??? *running off to check*

What ratio in the water?

I think it is a tablespoon per gallon? But you usually work up to gradually, 'cause they may not like the flavor at first.

Score, we have some in the cupboard! OK, I'll put some of that in her water, too.

my thoughts r one she is new and younger so she is on the bottom of the pecking order. that is why the hideing, roosting not really socializeing is comeing from. she is with u cause u r a human she knows u r food/treat giver and love and u r who she saw at her old home so she is comfortable with people from the sounds and fine there. she just needs time to figure out where she is in her new flock and where she fits in. she needs to find herself if that makes sence, to where she is on the pecking order.

2 runny stools can be caused by many things it could just be an adjustment of feeds from what she was eating there it maybe different than what u r feeding her at her new home. due to stress from being transported to a new home she may not be eating as much and drinking more so her system may need time to adjust.

sneezeing and breathing sounds can be many things also. check her nose to make sure it is clear, check the roof of her mouth and throat for anything white or yellow or mucas. i had a silkie yesterday doing that and she had fluid in her sinuses and looked like she had a bad head cold. her nostils were plugged up and roof of her mouth had food stuck covering her breatheing hole up there. the crack look in the roof of the mouth should be clear and nothing in there(forgive me i can't think of tech names at the moment,lol). she had a piece of corn and mash stuck up there so it back up causeing her to get sick. so it maybe something stupid and simple like that. i gave her a shot of tylan and we cleared out everything and she looks so much better today so we'll see if she is recovered in a few days. sometimes it can be colds, allergies and such too. if bedding is to powdery it can cause stuff like that also, sometimes just a change in environment can bring it on.

corn is not actually good for chickens it has no real nutrition for them. it is basically used in winter to add fat to keep warmer, same with black oil sunflower seeds. some corn is fine or treats of it but souldn't be part of an everyday feed.

for worming i use either cheyanne pepper added to feed or wazine wormer med, it is a wide spectrum wormer. i've had birds test possative for worms and never saw one so i just worm routinely to be safe. if it had mites u should see them on belly, under wings and especially around vent they should be little red/clear bugs and usually when u hold them they crawl on ur hands. anytime u get a new bird it should be quarenteined away from the others for 30 days before mixing in the flock. ACV and garlic in water helps to prevent bacterial things if i remember right and also cuts down on amonia smell. if they r given water antibiotics u can't use that though it cancels out the antibiotics and nutrilizes it.

COCCIDIOSIS
There are seven different species of Eimeria causing disease in chicken and five in turkeys and one in ducks. Other species cause disease in geese and game birds. All parts of the intestinal tract can be affected.

This disease is widespread throughout the world and effective control is necessary wherever poultry are reared. Modern anticoccidials in the feed give a high level of control but outbreaks continue to occur due to incorrect .levels of the drug in the feed, in association with wheat feeding and reduced appetite as a result of the disease.

When feed is restricted the level should be raised. There are many proprietary drus which provide a good treatment. The oocyst is resistant to most disinfectants. Careful diagnosis is required. An attenuated coccidiosis vaccine (Paracox) is available for chickens.

hope that helps,
silkie

Silkie,

Wow - yes that is very helpful. From what you say, I'd almost think she's just got a couple of side effects from adjusting to her new environment. I'm feeding my girls an organic feed called Payback. They have minimal dust in their bedding, but who knows what the other environment was.

30 days huh? I want to be as cautious as possible, but I also don't want to keep her in inhumane quarters. I live in town and have limited space - don't get me wrong I'm not on a postage stamp sized lot like these newer houses sell with, but I don't have enough space where the two groups of birds could be out and guarantee they wouldn't cross contaminate. I also don't have more than one hen house or run.

Do you have suggestions for how to keep her separate for 30 days? As I said above, I currently have her in a dog crate -- its for my beagle. She has enough room for her food, water, and a space to lay down. I don't know what she could do for daytime stretching her legs, though. Do people keep their birds in spaces that small 24/7 for the quarantine time?

Again - thank you, thank you!

it very much so could just be from change in environment. u don't know what her past home was like. trust me i've been there, done that and had a nightmare of a time. always use strict biosecurity and quarentein.

if ur feeding organic and it is a show bird(i think i saw that some where above) i'd asume u r feeding totally different then so it is more than likely due to change in feed. most of us that show have mills make us special feeds and r way different than bagged feeds already made up and i don't think same as organic either.

space would depend, what breed is it and bantam or standard? technicaly since u have a small flock i think u said 3 that may not be an option for ya. i have to do that though our flock used to be 200+ birds but i downsized so mine is now 100+ and my friend has about 50. we do cause we have way to many at risk so we have to use biosecurity. we use large dog crates, rabbit cages, homemade wall brooders and seperated single coop/pens but the main flocks r in 4 in 1 coops/pens to close to put near main flock. so we keep them in shed or another part of the yard away from the flock.

Good advice silkie and what i would have said allso.
It takes awhile for a new chicken to fit in and their first instinct is fear of all the NEW chickens, coop, feed, people, give her time and she will find her place.
The runny poo if you are feeding a different type of feed than the previous owner it may have upset her digestive system and therefore cause her poo to be a little loose and if she's not eating much remember she was use to the texture and taste of her former feed and may not like yours she will eat when shes hungry and socialize once she feels its safe too.

The ACV doesn't need to be unfiltered, but it DOES need to be real ACV, not flavoured. It will help with coccidiosis, mostly as a preventative--it makes the birds' guts a less hospitible environment for the protozoa.

Watery diarrhea is a common symptom of cocci, as is staying in one spot and not moving around. From what you describe, that is what I would treat for at this time. Sulmet or corrid are the meds of choice; your feed store should have one or the other. Be wary of other coccidiosis treatments as some have a very narrow therapeutic range which is very close to a toxic level. Do not give vitamins at the same time as treating for coccidiosis.

Silkiechick has a lot of good advise.

Suze

Don't want to alarm you, but the migrating birds are spreading Broncitis. My friends flock in Pensacola Fl just had it and mine did too. It is really bad. You can treat with Sulmet and Penacillin. Be sure you keep her hydrated. They stop laying, drinking and eating. You can put some food in a slurry and put it in a syringe and put it down past their wind pipe to keep them nourished. I still have two that I am nursing like this. It can go into a really yucky eye infection. Lots of disinfenctant. I pray that that's not what you have. You can tell if they really start gasping for air, opening their mouths to breath and turning very pale, even kind of yellow in the face. They will even vomit.

Sorry to bring you down. hope that's not what you have, but it's going around.

my sick bird? she is doing fine now, her's was a backed up sinus infection from her food stuck. i had ib hit last year and yes it is nothing to mess with. i vaccinate mine now for it and haven't had any cases since.

that's great. I thought mine were vaccinated too. I ordered 75 from Ideal. and 45 from Strombergs. I did not have any of the Stromberg juviniles get sick, but it went thru the ones from Ideal and I lost 19 out of 75. I asked for vaccines, but guess this was not one they did. Also I think that the Stromberg hens that lay the eggs must have been vaccinated and passed on the immunity.
Glad you hen is well! That's wonderful.

i don't buy hatchery birds only stock from private breeders so i vaccinate myself.

I prefer to vaccinate chickens, rather than vaccinate myself. I don't like needles.

:-)

Just kidding Silkiechick - I knew what you meant! I think I have to learn to give vaccines to my chicks.

oops i guess that did sound funny,lol sorry. i don't vaccinate till 4 weeks of age and older and they r eye dropped vaccines for ones i do. only needles i have to do is takeing blood on them and antibiotic shots when needed but nothing like i thought it would be. at first i was squeamish about it.

Thanks for the heads up InnBetween. I don't think that's what she has. It doesn't seem nearly as significant. We had her outlast night hanging out with us in the evening for a bit. She was talking and breathing just fine. She even passed a healthy looking stool. She did sneeze once, though, so I dunno. All other things seem fine.

She's still in the dog crate in the garage (about as far as you can get from my birds). I am a germ freak as well. So I germex anytime I touch any of my birds, healthy or not.

Vaccines Interesting topic:
So how do you go about vaccinating them, where do you get it, etc... I have no idea what they have or haven't been vaccinated from. I was on the fence about whether I wanted to vaccinate for the whole, organic eggs draw, but I think I'd rather save myself the potential time and loss of dealing with sick birds.

Would the Broncitis been prevented if they were in a covered pen? I read something about that in the Bird Flu preventions, etc... before getting my girls.

covered pens will not protect them those r both airbornes and microscopic.

depends on what u want to vaccinate for. i never did till i got a small sick flock in and had to and also cuz to show here they r mandatory must be ilt vaccinated. i vaccinate lt-ivax for ilt and bronchidous/newcastle disease, most of my flock has been merecks vaccinated also. twin city poultry supply is where i buy my vaccines.

i sell more hatching eggs than eating eggs and have a large flock for me the risk of looseing my birds was no compairison. i'd rather protect the flock than worry about organic but didn't matter cuz i don't sell for eating and since i show it is more of a chance they can catch something while away from home. so i wanted to be safe than sorry. not all vaccines will work for bronchidous cuz there is multipal strains of it but if the strain hit i vaccinated for it should protect them from getting it. if i had a closed flock yes i would raise organtic too.

some vaccines r shots while others r eye dropped, drank in water or sprayed as a fog kinda. each one varies as to what methods can be used to give them.

Thanks for the info Silkie! I appreciate hearing all opinions. Now I'll need to talk to DH and see what he thinks. Although I think I can hear him now, "I dunno, you're the chicken expert of the household." ha! That's why I rely on you guys and my books so much! :)

Yeah, it's marek's that I was thinking I should learn how to vaccinate for...

mereks is done as day olds, shot in back of the neck. u can buy the vaccine for that at jeffers supply i think it is online. but all the vacs i said come in 1,000 dz form so alot is wasted of it and incinerated.

LL, sorry to be so late seeing you have a possible sick chicken.

consdering all advice given, everyone was very helpful! what first came to mymind, was that if the picture is recent, her shiny feathers and posture appear to me that she is in good overall health!

whenever you get a new bird, the isolation is not just to protect your "flock" but also to protect the new bird.

when you send your child to school for the first time, they are exposed to all new germs different from what you have at home. and your new chicken is not used to the germs in her new envrioment.

considering what i read, i think she needs continued isolation, but not completely closed in. maybe find a certain enclosed part of the yard to turn her out under supervision, and just watch that she done't get into things. and then close her up in the carrier at night. confining he rin the carrier at all times will actually be bad for her health and well being. but 24-48 hours in there while receiving ACV, garlic, etc is a good idea.

btw, anyone needing a HOT feed, like if your chickens have been half drowned or have cold wet ground under their feet, cayenne pepper or crushed red pepper flakes fromt he store is the berst remedy.

which reminds me, LL, if she gets to looking sickly, don't forget to feel her waddles for high body temps. and be prepared to cool her down.

just ditto what everyone said. build up her immune system, intergrate her gradually, and enjoy her!

tf

Thanks tf!

The pictures are recent. I took then when I got her and over the evening visits with her.

I kept the babies isolated so well... I just got ahead of myself with this one and dumped her in with the other two. Nice comparison with the kids... I didn't even think about her picking up germs from my environment! :-S

Thank you for putting out the the idea of her going out under observation. I really felt that her just being trapped in the dog crate wasn't a good long term solution for her. I'll probably bring her out tomorrow. She has continued to look really well other than the little sneeze.

Do you have portion suggestions for: ACV, Garlic, Cayenne, or Crushed Pepper?

Thanks so much! She is SUCH a little sweetheart. I really want everything to work out for her!

since you like giving her treast, you can free feed the minced garlic, make sure it is FRESHLY minced [less than 24 hours].

ACV one TBSP per gallon. you will also like how it prevents slime buildiup.

i just occasionally cook up some rice and mix crushed red pepper in it. i have never been a big pepper fan, so have no idea on actual dosage...

watermelon would be GREAT for her, and the rind is incredibly healthy too.

Shoot, I've been feeding the minced garlic that comes in the big jar at the store...is there no good to that?

oh, i use that one too. don't know ho w soon after mincing they bottle it. to get the full benefit of garlic, it should be preserved somehow right after mincing. i usually infuse mine in the ACV bottle. but lately i have been using so much of it, i too bought a huge jar at the store.

Well darnit, I went out to visit Anya this evening when I got home from work. I had planned to put her out in the yard for a bit of supervised play, but the minute I opened the door she sneezed and then I noticed that she was hanging her little mouth open a bit.

...I think she's gotten a bit worse...

I took her out of the crate and she sneezed a couple more times and had soiled my pants with a loose stool. So I tried as best I could to check out the roof of her mouth, from what I could tell it looked clear.

The other "symptom" I noticed was that she was shying away from me when I touched her neck and I don't remember her doing that before.

I have ACV in her water (its a quarter sized waterer due to the crate and I put a teaspoon in there) and I put crushed garlic in her food.

Please help, what do you think should be the next step of treatment?

I called the previous owner. He seemed very defensive. I tried really hard to make sure that he understood that I was not calling to tell him he gave me a sick bird, but that I was just trying to look to him for information on her previous environment and to his experience on how I might treat her. He said that she was on 16% laying rations and that she had never been exposed to pine shavings (what I'm using) but didn't think that'd be the problem.

He suggested something called Vetrex, a Mentholatum type product that you rub on their waddles and nostrils before bed. Anyone have any experience with this???

Yes, I use VetRx. It is sort of like vicks for humans. I rub on the waddles and also put a drop in the mouth, and then I rub some under the wings. That is what it recommends on the bottle. I got mine from mypetchicken.com. It is a useful thing to have on hand because it also treats leg mites. Good for all respiratory chicken problems.

I have just had 2 of my birds sick with sinus infections. They had crusty stuff around the nostrils and eyes. I had to use an antibiotic - my vet gave me streptomycin and it worked well. I still used the VetRx also.

Note if you google it, it's VetRx, not vetrex.

OK, I've ordered VetRx at mychicken.com. Until then - ground shipping was outrageous enough -- I think I'll make up a small batch of rice with cayenne tonight and put more fresh garlic over her food??? I dunno... the other thing I noticed is she doesn't smell like she did before... but could that be the new smells of garlic and ACV in her poop???

Claire, funny side note -- I just googled, "poultry veterinarian, vancouver, wa" to see what my options were and the first hit was your thread about your sick chickens. ha!

Funny! And I'm nowhere near Washington!!

One question....you worry me when you say she smells different. Does she smell bad? There is this disease called infectious coryza that is very bad in chickens and is associated with a bad smell. It causes facial swelling and their nose has a discharge that smells bad. I hope it isn't that.

Her nostrils don't smell bad... I've been sniffing them daily since someone (was it Harmony?) posted about the birds with a bad smelling nostrils.

Its just that the garage (where she's at) smells different... not foul or rotten, just different. Not that standard fresh chicken smell... not that that's a "good smell". ha! I really think its just the combination of chicken poop and garlic... but I'm starting to get concerned enough that I did find a vet that sees chickens here in town. the office visit is $36. should I do it now or wait to see if she gets worse or better? Right now she's just got a sneeze, runny poop, and I saw her briefly have her mouth hanging open, but not always.

Re: the post - it came up because I was the first to respond and its says I'm from vancouver, wa below my alias. :)

I think if you do believe she might be a little bit worse, I'd see the vet now. First, because it could be infectious, and second, because it would put my mind to rest (if I were you). Also, treating it sooner rather than later may be key to getting her healthy. But I tend to err on the cautious side and for me $36 is worth it. Everybody has their own financial limitations and maybe some folks think that's too much for a chicken. To each their own! I found I learned quite a lot from my vet visit, so for that reason it was worth it, and I also now know somebody I would trust if I ever have a really serious chicken health problem, whom I would choose to see right away.

Thanks Claire. I want to take her, too, I've only had her for a week but I'm already attached and if its something that I can vaccinate or treat then it seems like its better to start treating now rather than wait. There's a little tiny part of me that is questioning the justification of spending $36 (probably more once I walk out with medications, etc...) on a bird I paid $20 for.... but the other 90% of me says its no longer about the money. My DH is more like 90% not seeing it worth it and 10% seeing that it is.

The place I found is 24-hours and there is no additional cost for after hours visits versus 8-5. So I may even go this evening after I get the kids to bed.