My roo is up and crowing up a storm i thought he wasn't going to make it for a while but i know now it was poison and something he ate when he was out all day when i left thier pen door ajar that poisoned him. What it was i have no idea it could have been moldy feed under one of the pens. It was a total coincidence he allso got pox at the same time and treating them with iodine worked great thanks Suze it just dried the warts right up. Thanks claire for the support!
Whew! Catastrophe avoided. It is so nice when things turn out better than we expect.
Pause---while I covet your roo.
Okay, back to work!
Boy is he beautiful...And healthy looking!
he is GORGEOUS, and so glad he pulled through. yep moldy feed would be bad news, can you share the symptoms?
Harmony-
Glad to see that your roo pulled through. He is beautiful!
Sheila
I'm so happy for your roo. He does look so handsome. Definitely requires one to pause and ogle him for a little while. Nice distraction in my workday! It's so great that several of us with sick chickens have had them get better. I hope that my Puddin' keeps getting better. Can't wait to go home and check on her today.
Tamara the symptoms were as follows:
When i found him he was just sitting on the ground [this was i think couple days after him getting out]
He is usually up and making a grand show of himself and i immediately knew something was wrong.
I went in and tried to shoo him and he got up and stumbled with his toes curled and his wings dragging.
He was very weak and i picked him up and his wings just hung and his legs were limp he had no resistance in his wings or legs i treated his warts and put him up and checked on him frequently and there was no improvement he did eat and drink i put food and water close by.
He slowly progressed the first thing i noticed was a couple days later when he stood up and his toes weren't curled he progressed and he started crowing and getting up a little more everyday.
The one main thing i thought was unusual was his toes being curled but he was mostly weak.
Harmony,
What a pretty boy! I very glad that things are getting better for him. I've yet to lose a chicken (just keep having to sell them - dagnabit!), but I know its gunna be heart wrenching when it happens.
Oh Harmony, that is great news.. I'm so glad ALL is well and goin smooth.
He is beautiful.. I just want to stroke his beautiful feathers! Thank you for sharing.
***********************BLESSINGS************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CF
I need to speak with Tamara faye.
Tamara I've been observing your post and advice and have come to admire your no nonsense approach to issues. So i have a question and its more of a what do YOU think kind of thing.
{To the people sensitive to culling don't read any further}
I was going to Dmail but i thought for some this might be informative and someone might be able to use the information.
I bought 11 white face black spanish bantams at a live stock auction i go to and sell at i've been going for 3 years and pretty much know everybody and got some good friends there.
I learned a tremendous amount about chicken Virus's/Diseases I bought the Chicken health Handbook by Gail Damerow 5 years ago and her methods are mostly what i follow. But i also have Learned alot of hands on from others who have been in chickens over 30 years.{not tooting my horn at all}
I'm a very no nonsense kind of person about my chickens and my approach to dieases/virus's is the same. Gail Damerow speaks of most chicken dieases aren't worth cureing and most leave carriers that could spread it to your flock. As i handle a great deal of chickens year round i cull at the slightest inkling there could be a bird with something viral.
I know if theres someone reading this you may be offended by this but we each have our own ways of dealing with these issue's and this is mine so Sorry in advance.
Now heres what i want to know Tamara the chickens in question were in 2 separate cages and it was 5
that appeared to be 4 months old and 6 that looked about 3 months old so they were definately from different hatch's. I'm exstremely cautious about what i buy there and even have a list of known feather traders and people with questionable chicken practices. I look at them feel through the cage wire for starvation and deformaty's as well as look at vent and even smell and look at thier poo for loose stool or sweet smell which means they are fed corn. I only have been wrong about 5 times in three years and this was one of them. He came in late and the sale had allready began i check to see if anybody had came and thier was this long line of mille fleur just beautiful birds and several cages of the white face black spanish and i looked at the 2 cages that i eventually bought and saw nothing unusal only one had his head pecked and the older ones combs were all nice and red and no scaly leg no odor nothing to send up a red flag.
Upon arriving home which is usally around 1am i will put them in small holding pens with food water and examine them a little closer {{these pens are not close to my other birds}}. The older birds were first and i put them in the front of my shed no nostril odor no mites clean feet and a little thin but not too thin {sshh my chickens are fat} I went to the back and took out the younger ones and my alarm sounded and it was loud Tamara they were no more than feathers no fat hardly any muscle i took them out and the last 2 broke my heart OH his head was pecked and he was close very close to death the other had a tumor the size of a pecan on its chest. I had no choice and i immediately put them down {sorry folks it was for the best} The others ones set me off again with the rotton nostril smell i associate with coryza (for the people who are still with me coryza is a very serious respiratory virus and is spread and carried by chickens it can be cured but it can produce carriers)
My DH said maybe its them being in thier own poo and it's on their feathers and thats why they smell i agreed and put them food and water. The next morning i moved them to quarantine and put them in separate pens about 2 foot apart the pens are not joined in any way. I have separate water and food containers for my quarantined birds plus have a bottle of germ X there to clean my hands after each bird i feed {germ aphobic} I waited 5 days and the nostril smell didn't go away at all While the older ones were just fine I had a choice keep waiting or cull and sorry i chose to cull for the protection of the others.
Now i will ask the expert what do you think the % of chance these others i have will come down with this? Do you think the older ones had it and got over it or was never exposed to it? I didn't cross contaimenate their food or anything i clean my hands from one pen to the next pen. Gails book said the incubation period was from 1 to 3 days and ive had these 7 days and they appear to be doing very well and no odor. I usally wait 1 month before i consider a bird safe to be anywhere near my birds. This doesn't hold true for all, i get birds from alot of very trust worthy people who have disease free birds. Whats your opinon i have used a cull as suggested by i believe thats in Gails book to put a cull in or next to the pen and see if they come down with it?
Has anybody had this smelly nostrils thing and what was your experience with it?
Thanks in advance if i don't answer right away I'm out but i will be back..............Harmony
bumping up for my question waiting on tamarafaye
tf is engaged in some very pressing business so may not be on line for awhile.
I am so sorry about the sick birds and can totally understand the necessity of culling for the safety of the healthy birds--it is different for some of us who have only a few birds that are primarily pets--but even then if a bird is suffering and there is little hope for recovery, I would cull.
The idea of using a cull to test for latent infection sounds good to me.
Interested in knowing how you cull--the method. I had an avian vet show me how--and it looked quick and painless but I haven't had the opportunity to practice and am not sure I would be able to do it humanely.
I too am interested in your method. I think the ability to put an animal down humanely is very important, especially with an animal like a chicken that is unlikely to be able to go to the vet. I have some experience doing so with other animal, but none with chickens. I hope never to need it, but would love to hear from someone with real experience just in case.
I've been gone today and thank you for asking me a question culling is never easy and with haveing so many birds i actually rarely have to cull.
I tried years back the old ring the neck i must not have the strength to do that cause the chicken got up and ran.
I have a half a broomstick which i use and i hold them by thier feet upside down and give them a very HARD whack to the back of the skull it has to be hard i have actually taken the chickens head off with one blow which that is good and makes it fast and painless to the chicken.
A very good point is i have had to hit them twice but not that often and after the first hit thier out.
This is the only humane way i know to do it besides putting them to sleep and if it's a pet and you have only a few chickens i would recommend putting it to sleep as you may not could handle the emotional upset of doing it yourself.
And how does one ** Put it to sleep** ???
Next question...Using a *Cull* as in: Live and diseased? next to healthy birds?? Why on earth would you do that and risk contamination of otherwise healthy birds??
Germ-X is good stuff, and I use it constantly hauling sick human patients, but are you aware many viruses are AIRborne? They wouldn't need contact to infect...and 2-3 feet away is no protection...
Harmony,
Thanks for sharing your experiences and culling methods with us. I know these were questions directed at TF, but I've been reading this as well, because its useful information to learn.
Good luck with the birds in question. I completely understand and would have done the same if I thought that any of my birds were going to infect my mini-flock. :)
Sorry to read this Harmony. That's a very tough decision in front of you. In our case we opted to cull the roos since we were not going to let carrier birds breed. The hens will also be culled once they've laid a years worth of eggs. Got to recoup our money to some extent.
Pet or livestock it's not easy choosing to end a life but sometimes it's very necessary.
MollyD
Putting to sleep refers to haveing a vet put them to sleep to save you from the emotional stress of doing it.
Useing a cull refers to putting a bird you don't mind sacrificing with or near the birds you think have a hidden virus or disease and seeing if it becomes sick if it does then i would cull all those birds. The pens would be sprayed down with bleach then left to air dry 1 week then be scrubed with soap to remove all poo and feathers then allowed to dry before another bird is placed in that pen.
I'm well aware that virus's get airborne but the quarantined birds are at least 100 foot or more (never measured it) away from my flock and my flock is never in any danger from these birds.
I've been raiseing these birds for 7 years and have never cross contaminated my birds with any disease.
I use Germ X as a precaution and it is on the top of the pen where these birds are and is not removed i use it when i reach them and when i leave them i touch nothing from there to my faucet and wash my hands and arms. I have a bottle of germ x where i keep my feed and use it for different reasons with my other birds.
oooh, ouch, Harmony! Sounds like you are doing things the right way to me. And the cull method is interesting because it gives you the potential to save far more birds than you would be able to otherwise.
Yes it does grow and thanks for the compliment i have for the past 7 years learned all i can about these birds and what it takes to keep them healthy (and still learning i might add) I rarely have to cull but we all have to face these unpleasant things because we have these birds and it comes with the teritory.
I shared this here because i thought maybe it might be helpful to others as we are all together in this chicken obsession.
lolol. OBVIOUSLY!! But it's NICE to be obsessed together with people like these!!
If anybody hears from Tamara would you tell her about this thread? Thanks
is tf ok? just busy?
TF is fine...but she is extremely busy at the moment...Tia is keeping track of her for us....
Thanks Dusty just thought she might be on other forums.
I can wait
Just bumping up my thread. Goodnight hope you get the crooks that stole your birds Tamara my thoughts and prayers are with you.
It's sad to lose an animal but it makes you mad as H++L when somebody steals them.
I hope they put the Creeps under the jail!
Oh my gosh! Someone stole your birds?!?! I just don't get people that steal! And birds? I've had family members have their dogs stolen, too.... I mean, what the heck?!
Harmony, I'm so glad you shared that... as hard as it may be, it's priceless information! I may never have a lot of chickens, but if I ever do, I would never have thought to cull that way..
Tamara, my thoughts are with you too.. that is awful.. I can't imagine how mad I'd be!! Hope all works out..
fist of all, sorry i took so long to get to this qustion, Harmony, and i appreciate you asking. it seems SilkieChick, being a certified poultry techinician [they ahve no such thing in my state] will have even better info.
i ahve been fortunate to not have anything contagious. what you have described and said it could be can certainly be airborne i htink[don't have itme at the moment ot look it up]
the cull sacrifice is an excellent idea. but first i would consider:
1. total $ amount spent on all the WFB you just bought [all birds, tirp expense, etc] divided by how many you now have after culling.
2. the $ value, on average of your othe rbirds.
now consider for a moment, if you had money invested in the stock market. maybe 30% in one thing and 70 in another. i fyou KNEW you suddenly had a higher than usual risk of losing that 30%, would you MOVE your other investments over to the risky one? OF COURSE NOT.
would you pull yuour money out of the 30$ before it became a total loss. I HOPE SO.
find someone with experience with this disease who would like to have your birds. perhaps someone else at the fair bid on them. and possibly they have a very separate place to keep these guys safely.
you could sell the remaining birds for LESS than what you gave, thus pulling out of the risk....
or
you could PAY that person to watch the WFB for 30 days and treat if necessary....
or
offer to split the breeders IF they recover, if they will just take care of them for you.
this would esp be good if it was someone experienced that you trust and that has no other birds at this time.
NOW THIS IS JUST THE EXAMPLE THAT CAME TO MIND AFTER READING EVERYTHING YOU WROTE. keep in mind, i am not qualified to tell you if i would cull, becasue i dont' know enough about the symptoms and disease you describe.
but my gut feeling is you should not have bought those birds. not that you can undo this, but find a way to honestly and reputable and humanely unload them on somebody else. i just really feel you don't need this problem right now. when you first posted their pic, i thought "something doesn't look right". naturally i just thought they weren't mature enough to have the clown face. but after they recover they WILL be weak stock. if someone else nurses them back to health, hatches out chicks, who turn out healthy, then you could prehaps get eggs to hatch from THOSE chicks.
2 generations down is about as close to those birds as i would want to get. but i wouldn't cull them out through death. just immediate relocation...
i really REALLY hope my point of view is helpful, and so sorry it is late.
tf
__________________________________________________
p.s. i really think the Chicken Fairy took my birds. honest. how could anyone but a powerful fairy take 158 birds without me noticing?
Okay think things got a little crossed up and i will try to fix it.
The birds that i kept are not sick and have not been sick and it's been 10 days since i bought them.
I noticed the odor on the other 6 which were younger and in poor health only in body size(starvation)
There were never any symptoms of any sort only the odor and i associate that with coryza a deadly respiratory disease that ive had experinced without the head swelling in birds about 6 years ago free chickens i might add and i had those diagnosed by a licensed ag tech. and it can occur without the head swelling.
I culled the 6 only as a precaution and there were no other signs of sickness in the other 5 and NO odor and are in good health, no starvation nothing to sudjest they are at all sick or have been sick.
They have in no way been in contact with any other birds as i stated before
I've seen birds before that were sick while others never show signs and never get sick.
They still have no synptoms 10 days later and coryza has a incubation period of 1-3 days'
My question was by there being no symptoms in the 5 left that seem very healthy could they have not been exposed enough to catch it. They are older and were in a separate cage and had no direct contact with the others could it be possible they weren't exposed to it?
If the incubation period was 1-3 days and most virus/diseases have a 1-? day incubation period then do you think they were never exposed to it?
Do you think my diagnosis may have been wrong and the others nostril odor was not coryza?
I ask anybody who has had any experience with this to weigh in and tell us your story this can be very educational for others and we may all learn something.
OH i would never sell these birds or even give them to anyone they will be put down if i determine it's something contagous.
I believe i'm going to try the cull method it has worked well in the past when i had a questionable bird. Yes i know i shouldn't have bought these birds but he came in late and i didn't get to do my 6 point inspection i do for the ones i buy (darn impulse buy)
OH and the birds are white face black spanish bantams and they start getting the white face when fairly young and it gets bigger as they age and these birds are at least 4-5 months could be older some people breed what i call runts the lest of the bunch to obtain a smaller chicken. I've seen some smaller than Serama's and so short thier they almost have no legs looks like just feet on a body.
Thanks for your imput Tamara and i'm feelin for you about them chickens you got stole you know theres enough of us here to form a posse and we could hunt them down!
Maybe silkie will stop by and give me her opinion on this.
yes, you might want to dmail SC so she knows you have a question.
seem to me, these two separate bird groups were together at one time, unless they came from two separate owners? some birds that survive, or are exposed to but never come down with, certain diseases can be carriers.
as much as i would love to have WFB Spanish, i just won't bring other birds onto my property. period. i would seek out and find a breeder who speciallizes in the breed i want, and then enter into a purchase agreement.
feel really bad for the situation. totally understand impulse purchases from auctions. that's why i don't go.
in case you haven't heard, the birds turned up in good condition in Oklahoma. turns out the theif was a Fairy, and can not only fly, she can drive pretty darm fast too...
thanks
tf
Yep they did and they are getting so spoiled. I can not walk out with out an escort of birds now. Oh red buckeye almost made it into the house. He is just a dream to have. He just loves my youngest daughter. I think he is sweet on her.
watch it there. MG is MY BABY!!!! i have proof in the pictures lol
You are gonna have to tell MG that, he is so sweet on Tara. But Tara is sweet on the OEG's. She even held one yesterday.
Put the cull in a pen and zip tied it to the WFB spanish pen to insure cross exposure will check back in if anything happens and report the findings as this could be helpful to someone in the future with a similar problem.
Harmony,
Please excuse the potentially stupid question, but you've completely lost me. Are you saying that you zip tied a dead bird to the white faced black spanish pen? I'm not questioning method, just trying to understand what you're doing and why. That way I can log it away for future reference should the need (chicken fairy forbid) ever occur.
thanks!
Kristin
I put a chicken in a smal pen {alive} and zip tied it to the side of the white face black spanish pen to directly expose it to them and any virus they may or may not have. It will have food and water and will stay there 14 to 21 days.
I have "assumed" the White face black spanish were exposed to a virus before i purchased them but i'm not 100% sure and the Cull will either come down with what they have or will continue to stay healthy.
I will look for several things watery eyes, runny nose, cough or croop, Lameness, lathargy, and finally sudden death.
This is a diagnostic tool used by alot of breeders when they bring in a new bird.
Hope i explained it well if you still have a question feel free to ask :)
*light bulb just went on!*
OK, I think I got it. You are taking one of your birds from your existing flock and exposing them to the WFB spanish to see if s/he is contagious. Brilliant! That way you are not exposing your whole flock, just one IF s/he is contagious.
Thanks for the explanation!
Kristin
I'm exposeing the cull to the WFB spanish to see if THEY are contagious.
