This is my third year farming Monarchs, & also my first time I experienced an death. It failed emerging from the chrysalis, oozing black/green fluid, only to have the wings so stiff from the blood that they cannot open. I tried wetting them, offering sugar water for strength - but nothing has helped. It is still alive, 2 days later. It is pathetic to see it die so slowly. It got me wondering about the "normal" amount of losses a farmer has each season.
I started out with 20 Monarch cats. The one will soon die. 2 have emerged & flown away, one is pupating as we speak, & the rest are in chrysalis. One out of 20 sounds like fairly decent odds to me. What about everyone else?
What are your numbers for losses? What stage did the death occur?
We farm to increase their odds for survival - What average losses may we expect, after our "new & improved" version of Mama Nature's Butterfly Program?
Let me know your own experiences!
Julie
Butterfly Farmers - Untimely Death Averages?
Julie, I raise butterflies both for fun and for the Museum of Science and Industry here in Tampa, FL. Monarchs are some of the worst to get diseases and not emerge from the chrysalis. Every week I see exactly what you have happening. This morning I had to put several out of their misery because they were either unable to fly or unable to fully emerge from the chrysalis.
Considering nature only has a 1-2% success rate, I figure even 50% is a vast improvement. Are you farming butterflies for fun or is it a business?
Melanie
I farmed Galerucella beetles for 2 years (they control Purple Loosestrife) but this is just for pleasure. I am relieved to hear that what happened is common - I wondered if it was something I had done, or if I could have helped it somehow.
What does the Museum do with the Monarchs? Do they offer them as kits for educational purposes? How did you put the butterflies out of their misery? I thought there must be a humane way to end it's suffering, but I had no idea what to do.
I grow tropical milkweed, which I over Winter indoors. But this year, with 20 caterpillars, I nearly ran out of food! I bought a hardy "Ice Ballet" locally, & added 2 orange & 1 pink perennial bare root plants from a eBay seller. I will be better prepared next season - I hope.
I imagine you look forward to going to work each day - What an amazing contribution - Beautifying this world :)
Julie
Julie,
I am new to raising butterflies also. Just gulf frits and black swallowtails for now. My success rate with these has been almost 99%. I think only 2 of the gulf frits didn't make it out of about 30. 1 of the BS out of 10 didn't make it. I have 5 more BS cats now. I think Mellie said you could stick them in the freezer if you see that aren't going to make it. I would love to see some Monarchs here. Planting more milkweed next spring.
Elaine
I had about 25 milkweed plant that were loaded with Monarch. They ate all the leaves and I had to buy all of the plants I could find. They stripped ever thing to a stem. Now I have none! They are all gone! I'm so sad!!!!
Next year I'm going to plant a lot more and try to stagger the growing of the milkweed. I hope that helps have more plants for later in the year. Success rate 0%
I only volunteer once a week at the museum, but I definitely look forward to it all week. We have a flight cage (basically a big screened-in patio) where visitors can walk around and look at all the butterflies. Then, when they walk outside the cage, one wall of our lab is windows. We set the chrysalids on one side and the caterpillars in aquariums on the other so they can peer through the glass and look at them. There are signs that tell which caterpillar is what and also shows what they are eating. Of course, we have other volunteers who stay in the flight cage to answer questions. There's also a large butterfly garden outside where I can usually be found collecting food for the critters. So I run into lots of guests that way too, and I can show them what we grow to attract the butterflies.
When I have to put them out of their misery, I take a pair of scissors and just chop their head off. It's quick that way. But other people use the freezer method, too.
In my day job, I'm an accountant, but sometimes I bring the caterpillars in and set them on my desk. Yesterday, I had a zebra swallowtail emerge so I had to bring that to work. They're my favorite and I had to watch!
Melanie
Some fish hobbyists say to freeze them - But others claim they feel the ice crystals forming & it causes them pain. I don't think I could do the scissors method - I am too much of a wuss. I guess anything is better than the suffering. Your coworkers must look forward to seeing what you will bring in each day!
I would love to try to raise some other butterflies in addition to the Monarchs. I want to plant some Parsley next year in the hopes of attracting some Swallowtails.
This eBay seller carries 2 kinds of perennial milkweed, & the prices are decent. These are the roots, so they will get established & sprout up next Spring. By that time the plants will be able to handle some chewage - I hope. The seller is Viola Valley Wildflowers. I have read that the swamp milkweed, or common milkweed is an aggressive grower & not a good garden plant.
Or perhaps this will just mean MORE Monarchs, that will demand that much more milkweed?
This week I discovered a strange looking caterpillar on my Balloon Flowers - It is a Saddleback Moth, which has hairs on it's body that cause a bee-like sting. No farming THAT cat!
Julie
I raise the bfs as a hobby with my gardening. This is only my second full year. My first year with BSTs I had about a 70% success rate I would say. Mainly due to my not cleaning the leaves and finding that the cats had been parasitized by the microscopic wasp. Then there was those that fell with wings deformed too much to fly; because I didn't have them isolated away from sticks of other chrysalis. This past year with using the plastic food containers and separating them as they get larger, I haven't lost but 2 of about 53 BSTs. I do still have 5 that haven't emerged however.
My rate with Monarchs has always been very good. I only had one last year that turned black (parasite), and one died for no apparent reason. This year I have had zero losses out of about 28 I think it is; but the season isn't over. As they get larger, I only put two or three per container and they pupate fine on the top of the container. I then remove them to tie them inside of a cage on a dowel stick or pinned to styrofoam.
Like others said nature only gives a 2% survival due to them being part of the food chain mainly; so we do what we can and if we loose a few, hope to learn from it.
J, I am with you on the butterflies,, however, putting my fish I catch on ice is another story. LOL I just started rescuing butterflies this past year also. I am growing yellow milkweed and if it continues to produce, I would be glad to share. I am stilllll waiting for monarchs to find them. Patience,,,,is a virtue. I have a ton of gulf frits that I am going to make more cages for tomorrow. I would love to have a butterfy 'house'. hmmm all things are possible.
Elaine
Elaine....Think your plan through and not just the normal situations before jumping in.
My DH and I got a bright idea of making a cage that would fit on a window of our shop, where I keep my caterpillars. It would be accessible by opening the sliding window. I would pin the chrysalis in there from the inside, then when I had some to release, just open an outer door. We thought to make it of pvc covered with the tightweave fabric I use. Sounded pretty easy and we planned to build it until we had a influx of Carpenter ants one week while hanging a new door. The ants we so bad that we had to move all of the chrysalis into the house to fog. We put a fogger up in the attic and one inside. Ants dropped out of the ceiling for three weeks! So after that we dropped our plan. I would have to adhere the cage to the building to avoid insects getting to them and I couldn't put it up and take it down.
You are soooo right. I wouldn't even attempt without a lot of planning. We don't have quite the problem of ants up here. Except those hateful fire ants. My aunt in Florida has this wonderful closed in area connected to her house that would be great for raising and releasing butterflies. Lots of work, of course.
Sheila - You raise a lot of butterflies as a hobby! I am impressed with your determination - It is amazing what you are contributing.
I have found that the Monarchs seem to favor some milkweeds. Mine refused the "Ice Ballet" leaves over the tropical milkweed. But I always find caterpillars on the tropical milkweed - Every year, without fail. The leaves are very tender - I guess they like that!
Thanks, everyone that attempts helping the bfs, is doing a great service in my book.
I did something today that I am anxious to see the stats on. I had not gathered cats for about a week now and found only about 8 around 1 1/2" long. I marked their cages with an "x" and I am going to see if the numbers are as good as the ones I pulled in the first or second instar are. I didn't mean to leave them there this long, but I got busy and just didn't think about it before dark most days. They were on plants that I haven't been using to feed from; and we haven't had many adults flying around this week either.
All of my Monarchs have left as soon as they emerged. In the past, they stayed a few days. I am down to the last dozen or so chrysalises. Perhaps they will hang around after they emerge - I would love to enjoy them in the garden. Texas and FLorida sound like wonderful places to watch butterflies!
Feel free to come visit - we love tourists! There's a state park at St. Mark's in the panhandle that has a big Monarch fest in October. Here's a link to their calendar - scroll down to October and you'll see it listed: http://www.stmarksrefuge.org/calendar.cfm
Maybe something to plan for next year! I keep meaning to go too, but I haven't made it up there. My dad has hunted in that area, though.
Melanie
Someday I will!
I had 3 more leave today - All healthy. Of course, it has been rainy, windy & generally lousy - Not the best weather for them to try out their flying skills!
Is there a thread or file for someone who is completely new to monarch raising? I put in a bf garden this year, saw tons of cats, a couple of chrysalis, but never saw one hatch out as a bf. I have 3 butterfly weed plants. How can I be ready next year?
Thanks!
BB, this thread is a wealth of information. I am new at trying to raise butterflies. Only had 1 or 2 monarchs this year. Just started growing milkweed. Will have lots more next year. I think you will need lots more than 3 butterfly weed plants. Those cats eat lots of leaves. If you go to the top of the hummingbird butterfly forum there are lots of ideas for growing and making cages.
Elaine
Since we are in two different areas, I am not sure what the need is up there, but we have the returning monarchs in the spring that lay eggs on the way. My plants were only two inches high and the females found them. In September we have them for about a month or more laying eggs, then they start migrating and the rate slows down. So I make sure I have seeds planted in late summer or fall so plants can get a jump start in early spring. I also start seed inside for plants in case of a late freeze. I only had about 12 plants from 2007, but this year I have put in about 30 more. You can never have too many milkweed; monarch are definately munchers!!
I raised 46 cats and those that I brought in quicker were a 100% success for release of 44. Those that I (missed) didn't bring in until later instars had only 85%. But still that is better than their chances in the wild of only 2%.
Wow... I had no idea the rate of success in the wild was so low! That's a definite motivator. Thanks for the help pointing me in a direction. This will be a good winter project and now I think I know what plant I'll put on the fenceline between my hollyhocks!
Just a quick comment with regard to using the freezer for euthanasia, since I've got a background in neurobiology. Cold is an excellent anesthetic for invertebrates (like butterflies). They do not "feel the ice crystals forming"... by the time they are that cold, messages are no longer being transmitted between neurons.
Thanks for that confirmation of the method critter! I just can't bring myself to squish a butterfly.
I know what you mean. Pet fish that need to be euthanized go into the freezer here also for a gentle end... I can't bring myself to give them the same treatment as the ones we catch with a hook!
I had to do my goldfish in the freezer - It was an awful experience. Thank you for allaying my fears about the freezer treatment - for fish or butterflies.
I dug my tender Milkweed, & rooted some cuttings.They grow under lights in my cellar for the Winter - This way I have mature Milkweed for the Monarchs in Springtime. I have seeds if anyone would like to try some - This is for the non hardy Milkweed. I have the yellow & red & yellow flower varieties. I learned that they require a wet/cold cycle to germinate. This milkweed seems to be the favorite of the Monarch caterpillars!
Julie