hi,
I have a massive Charles Grimaldi that i inherited with the house. It suffered during a frost spell early in the year so the flowers are a bit late. I have 10 more brugs but they are young cuttings wo will not be flowering this year.
Is there a place where I can buy pollen so I can try hybridizing the flowers? If so, is there a list of what is available?
Which pollen should I be looking for to have a good cross of CG?
Thank you:o)
question about pollen
If you become a member of either of the brugmansia societies, you can select pollens from their banks.
Study the backgrounds of the individual pollens offered and "imagine" what good hybrids might come of that particular cross.
'Charles Grimaldi' can be an excellent parent both ways.
If you're a member of the two organizations we are not supposed to mention, I believe you can buy pollen from one and get it instead of seeds from the other. You can gather pollen from your other Brugs using a pair of tweezers and a small pill jar or bag. You can store the pollen in either the refrigerator or freezer, depending on how long you plan to keep it before using it.
Seedpods can take up to 4 - 6 months to ripen. Does your Brug freeze down to the ground in winter or does it survive intact? While it is possible to take a large cutting with a seedpod, root it and have the seedpod ripen successfully, I've not had any success. The pod may hold on for a while, but then it always falls off. You could gather all that pollen off CG and use it to pollinate your other Brugs next year.
While experienced hybridizers have gotten pretty good at crossing Brugs for desired color, shape, disease resistance, heat tolerance, etc, they still don't know what they will get until the seedling blooms and the plant has grown at least two years or more. Most of their plants will end up in the compost bin. Keepers should be significanly different in color, or other traits that it warrants being added to the gene pool. Unfortunately, it isn't always the case and the result has been a bunch of look alikes.
As for the rest of us, we need to be realistic about what to expect. If you are serious about hybridizing, you need to accept that most of your seedlings will be duds that need to be composted and you are willing to actually be ruthless about culling. It's exciting to grow your own cross. Do a Google search on "Register of Brugmansia Cultivars. It lists the names of registered Brugs, the pod parent, pollen parent flower color, whether it double or single, it's Breeding Set (Genetic traits it exhibits/background), the hybridizer, and the seedling parent. It's a place to start to see what is possible. Read about the dominant and recessive traits in Brugs — not much out there though. As you look through the Register, note that many of these hybridizers have been doing it for years or decades. Yet, you don't see dozens and dozens of registered plants in their name. You will notice that not all hybridizers include the crosses. I once read an article either written by Monika Gottschalk or about her. She states that many hybridizers don't include the Brugs crossed because of Brug "pirates", people who make the same crosses, get similar looking flowers and then claim they made the cross first. Can get very messy. Note that you can cross two beautiful looking colored Brugs and end up with nothing but white flowers ( appears to be the dominant color), sickly plants or plants that look like hundreds of others.
That said, I would try for a cross with a double white or double pink. I would like to see a truly magnificent dark double yellow or dark double orange. I have seen some pollen offered for sale on e-Bay, but would be leery of buying it unless you know the seller. You could try asking for pollen. Off hand I don't know who sells pollen. None is listed in the Marketplace.
I'll get off my soapbox now. I think we all go through the same phases: Get our first Brug, Get bitten by the Brug bug and amass a collection, Figuring we have things down pat, the next logical step is to try making our own crosses, but not really knowing anything about Brug genetics, etc. I would hate to see you become disillusioned when you don't get a "good cross" and they all turn out white or almost white....
I would love to see a sticky thread added to the forum giving hybridizing advice, shared bits of information about dominate and recessive traits, species dominance. I've tried all sorts of key words on Brug hybridizing in my google searches without much success and haven't found any shared secrets either. Those secrets are a result of years of trial and error and personal experience and are carefully guarded. I can sympathize with that philosophy, but I've always enjoyed sharing what I have learned and find it difficult to understand why even basics are not shared. It would be great to have at least a basic understanding of Brug genetics.
thank you for your help Abutilon and Bettydee.:o)
Bettydee, have you read about Mendel's genetics experiments?
Hi Betty,
just realised that I didn't answer your questions.
Yes, my brug freezes up and dies every winter and then I get little ones coming from underground in the spring.
I am not interested in "serious" hybridizing, just trying once to see what I get.
I think that, one of the aims of an organization is to spread their knowledge and make things easier for the people who are interested. what is the poing of keeping secrets? That makes me sad...I feel for you.
good luck!
You can get pollen from almost any brug between the two societies, like the ladies mentioned, also from trading with others, and there are also several you can buy on Ebay.
Betty that sure is good advice about being willing to cull ruthlessly. Sometimes it can be depressing for me as Registrar when a bunch inferior seedlings are registered that really should have been culled. Hybridizing info though is no longer a secret. both societies share that in vivid detail, mostly in threads in the forums, but also in sticky threads and on-line tutorials. I think it takes so much time and effort to make up those sticky threads/tutorials that the top hybrizers tend to do it just once, and put it where they spend the most time, at the specialized societies.
- Tom
Hi Tom .. lol
Geez .. this thread is getting goofy :-0
"Betty", what do you want to hybridize for?
I most always have pollen and usually send it freely.
I would not want to be blamed if you didn't get a cross to satisfy though.
I give my "less" brugs away to gardeners here who are always very happy to get them.
Or leave them to frost.
But in reality though not all all the "best" seedlings to make my cut, I have hardly ever seen an ugly brugmansia.
Don't ban me Dave, ..
but I would advise brugmansia growers to join at least one of the brugmansia societies.
Aside from friendships, they exist so members can learn.
Sorry about replying at this thread again )-;
This should be discussed at it's own thread.
Nevermind ..I got confused to which thread we are on .. lol
This one is ok for this discussion.
I seldom post here and people I know are coming out of the woodwork ..lol
Alice,
When I first fell in love with Brugmansias, I went nuts and wanted one of everything. Over time, I've come to realize that I tend to gravitate toward Brugs with long tubular or trumpet shape corollas, strong B. aurea or B. X candida influence. I also like the corolla shape of the B. versicolor, but I don't care to see a lot of neck. I don't care for B. insignis nor B. suaveolens. I love the way the calx on B. arborea and tend to gravitate toward Brugs with calces that cover and hang down over the top part of the corolla. I also don't care for a flower that tends to recurve a lot. Slight recurve is fine. Love long slightly curved tendrils. So....
I would like to hybridize for an intense bright true yellow double that exhibits the traits I like — a long calx (one split) that hangs over the shoulders of a long fat tube-shaped corolla, shirts that are flared, ruffled and well separated. Long curved tendrils, a fragrance to die for and heat tolerance would round out a perfect yellow Brug. That would be my goal. Mainly, it's knowledge. Nothing peaks my curiosity more than not having the answer to a question. Sounds crazy I know. I belong to the two groups we can't mention.
So much good information on here. I was just scanning through the post looking for information and thinking of trying to cross some of my Brugs. I have a beautiful Yellow, a Double Pink and a variegated pink. Can you tell me, is there a correct way to determine which plant you use as the the pod parent and the pollen parent?
Betty
