After finally IDing my Xanthosoma the other day, it's got me wanting to ID or verify the ID of several of my EE's. I suspect some of these will be easy for most of you and others may be impossible without a bloom. I'll gladly take any ID's or guesses I can get. Also, since I have all of these in the ground, if anything may have trouble in my 8a winter, please let me know.
Thanks,
John
OK, here goes... I was told this was Alocasia Macrorrhizos
I think this is either an Odora, Macrorrhizos, or Garner's Alocasia x Calidora. This one I cut the top off last fall and the bulb did NOT survive the winter in a raised bed, so I'm worried about leaving this guy in the ground, even next to the house.
I know it's a Colocasia, but what type I have no idea. It's definitely a clumper though.
I believed this to be Macrorrhiza for many many years but after Lariann pointed out it seems the true green Macrorrhiza is rarely seen in cultivation and that this is a form of odora. The variegated macrorrhiza plants often seen are true macrorrhizas and a reverted green one from the variegated form seems to be the only way to find them on the market.
Was told this was Colocasia Gigantea x 'Thailand-Giant
Thanks Brian, it's so hard to tell them apart - at least for me. I can stare at them for hours and hardly spot much difference.
This I believe to be an Alocasia Odora. Picked it up in Florida a few years ago. Got a nice size trunk I plan to cut off this fall for pups.
This message was edited Sep 3, 2008 9:16 PM
Another Alocasia Odora - slightly more positive on the ID on this one.
Another Odora. I purchased this as an Odora bulb from a reputable seller, so it better be an Odora, LOL
This was my first EE ever, got me started on them. I have 2-3 other threads asking about the ID when it was much much smaller. It has a heck of a trunk now, so I may cut it off this year too. Since it's sort of a family hand-me-down, I keep it potted. I'd love to ID it so I know if it's hardy or not.
I think it's an Odora.
I think this is a Red-Stem Esculenta
And what I hope to be a Borneo Giant. I've got one more, a colocasia runner I'd also like to ID. I think it's running Taro. Gotta find the photo.
That last one does look like a small Borneo Giant to me. The one you call your first EE ever looks like Alocasia x calidora. The "reputable seller" odora looks like an odora to me. Your first pictured plant looks like Alocasia x calidora and your second one looks like a green macrorrhizos, which explains to me why it didn't survive the winter. Were it odora or x calidora, it would have survived.
The one you picked up in Florida looks like odora. As far as the Colocasias are concerned, the one you have as 'Thailand Giant' I can only confirm is Colocasia gigantea, but I cannot confirm if it is the T. Giant variety or not as I am not that familiar with the two types and their differences. The other Colocasias I can't really help with as I don't work with Colocasias.
LariAnn
Aroidia Research
Thanks LariAnn, that's a huge help.
The colocasias I am fairly good at IDing. The problem here is most of the forms grown are not going to be different species but different forms of one species (esculenta). Your third picture down of the large growing green colocasia is Colocasia esculenta. This form is commonly grown as a food crop as well as a ornamental plant. It looks to be a tetraploid rarely producing flowers and producing very large tubers.
Your Colocasia gigantea is in fact a gigantea and just from the photo I would say it is the Thailand form. The Thailand form will produce large leaves fast and it will flower white spath flowers usually in clusters of 6 one opening right after another each day. This form rarely produces pups. The common form will produce small odd maculation's or leaf mutations under each leaf. It also rarely flowers and suckers or pups easily. It is a much faster spreading form but does not reach near the size of the Thailand form.
Your red stem Colocasia esculenta looks to be a Hawaiian form. The Hawaiian name escapees me at the moment. It is commonly called Neon stem, pink stem or neo colocasia. It seems that high acid soil content can help this produce some really amazing stems. I have seen photos of some that are amazing but it is due to the feeding of high acid fertilizers. Their are more than one plant with this neon pink stems and the most common form has been in TC for sometime. I have seen other forms that are extremely hard to tell apart.
As for the Alocasias I can usually tell most species apart but these Odora forms and hybrids with them that are very similar can really be hard to impossible to tell apart. Photos of the flowers can help but even then it can still be difficult to say exactly what they are. I am sure Lariann will give you the best results in a ID on these. On another note I had some Alocasia odoras blooming this spring and the leaves that were developed during this time were extremely unusual. If I had seen a photo or even a plant with these leaves I would never thought they were odora. They were extremely narrow with extremely wide back lobes and few veins. After the flowers were done it continued to produce normal foliage. It just goes to show that these plants can change and adapt to their situations and much like Colocasias they may all be one species with tons of different variations.
"The Thailand form will produce large leaves fast and it will flower white spath flowers usually in clusters of 6 one opening right after another each day"
That sounds like it then, it put up several spaths in a row, and then it did it again. I'm hoping for seeds. If I don't get any, can I cut the top of the plant off before the first frost in late October, mulch what's left in the ground, and then essentially have two plants by potting the top over winter?
In fact, I hope to do that with several of my EE, especially that green macrorrhizos that isn't hardy. Can I just chop the tops off with a knife and then mulch the remaining part? Will that do any harm right before the first frost?
Thanks for the posts Brian and LariAnn, it's good to finally ID these guys.
I found a few old photos of the Running EE's. These guys have taken over the lower part of my yard. Went from about 3 last year to 20 or more this year. But they fill a useless part of the yard, so I leave em be. But what are they?
Another shot.
typical c. esculenta known generically as 'green runner', for awhile I thought maybe 'ruffles' and this might be the same, but they are different forms
Thank you! Am I missing it in the Plant Files? I couldn't find it.
This message was edited Sep 10, 2008 4:15 PM
I looked too, I don't think it's there.
I'm gonna hijack this thread a little since the original poster seems done asking. I bought my first EE bulb this summer and it's grown beatifully since being planted in mid-July. But now I'm worried about how to best take care of it for the winter and so it seems I need to be more confident in what type it is. It was labeled as a 7-9 Upright Elephant Ear - Alocasia Macrorrhiza, but it doesn't look like other pics I've seen of this variety, so I want to be sure. Can anyone confirm this based on my picture, or offer up the real cultivar if this isn't the case?
Also, after ID'ing, I'm trying to determine when to slow down on my watering & either bring inside (greenhouse-type environment, but drier), or protect a little outside for the colder temps. What temps are too cold for this guy?
That plant looks like Alocasia odora to me, which is good news because A. odora is much hardier than A. macrorrhizos. That being said, you should make your decision as soon as frost is forecast. If you want to grow a big Ear next Spring, you are best off keeping your guy growing during the winter inside. You'll have to watch for bugs (mites, mealys) and try to keep the humidity up, but you'll have a big head start come Spring.
If you keep your guy outdoors, you'll need to plant him in the ground and mulch heavily, avoiding too much water. The frost will kill back the leaves but in your zone the plant should survive underground.
I never cut my Ears Back might not hurt theam to do so but in Zone 8 it Might Paul
This message was edited Sep 17, 2008 8:54 PM
Wanted to bump this bc I think we can possibly confirm the ID of one of the above. The first EE I ever acquired ( http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5505281 ) has produced several pups the last two years and even the seeds I harvested last year are now quite large plants and have pups of their own. I'd like to try and definitively confirm the ID so I'll know if it's hardy or not - I'd like to put some of these in the ground next year since the pots are adding up.
Here's one of the larger babies from seed. Parent plant was the one photographed in the link above. Still think it's Alocasia x calidora? If so, that should mean I'd be OK with one in the ground right?
Thanks again.
-John
And if it helps... the parent blooming April 07, the seed pod July 07, and the parent flower (sorry that photo isn't any better).
Seed Pod
Flower - Spath
Well, A. x calidora does set seed readily, but the plants grown from the seed should technically be called A. x calidora F2 if they were set by pollen from another A. x calidora. If from an A. odora, it would be a backcross. You may not know where the pollen came from, but I've found that sometimes these will self and that would be F2.
I think it was a self, at the time it was the only EE I had. Now the seeds from this year - who knows where the pollen might have come from (any one of the flowering plants above - the Odora's and Gigantea's especially were bloom happy this spring). I'm still waiting on Gigantea seed pods to burst open.
Do you think all the pups/seeds would be hardy for the plant I was posting photos of above though (calidora F2)? And what exactly does the F2 stand for?
keonikale what did you do with the seeds? Paul
Been keeping them potted so far, I hope to put them in the ground next spring.
"F2" stands for "second filial generation", as opposed to "F1" which is "first filial generation. When a cross is first performed, as in the A. x calidora, that is the F1 generation. Selfing the F1 yields the F2. Usually any diversity comes out in the F2 generation, while the F1 is supposed to be more uniform overall.
So what if the F2's produce seeds? Are those still F2?
And how about hardiness? That's what I'm really curious about.
I also dug up this old thread, and at that time we speculated this plant was a Macrorrhiza. So whether it's that or a A. x calidora it seems either way it's apparently not hardy to my zone (according to plant files). Bummer.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/684751/
keonikale, according to plant delights (mac & calidora) both are hardy to my zone 7b, and I know for certain the calidoras will be fine outside. this will be the first year for me leaving mine out but a friend a little bit away has huge ones at her place, also 7b. I really don't think hardiness will be an issue with your seedlings because the parent (s) (calidora and/or maybe odora) are really hardy. You're lucky, I got flowers on my Calidora but no seeds :)
Thanks, I did one small one in the ground earlier this year - so I'll mulch it and see how it handles the winter. I'd definitely love to get them all in the ground if I could.
This thread continues to be a wealth of info, thanks again for everyone's who's helped. I do have some final questions heading into winter.
So that I wouldn't loose the green macrorrhizos (second photo in this thread) I decided to dig it up from its location beside the house. It might have been OK, but until I have larger babies, I want to be safe. I still don't understand completely what is different about 'green macrorrhizos' (which LariAnn said above was NOT hardy to my zone) and my other Alocasia Macrorrhizos (seen in first photo, which I was told when buying it that they are hardy). Of course, that seller may have labeled it wrong, bc I think LariAnn said it was Alocasia x calidora.
This gets confusing!
Also, when digging up the green macrorrhizos (also called 'common EE' - is that right?) I found dozens of tiny bulbs (or what appear to be bulbs). Look almost like baby onions, all around the EE. I assume these are what popped up after the main bulb died last winter in my raised bed. I'm going to plant these in pots and hopefully will have babies next year. I want to see if I put them next to the house if they'll survive our winter (with a good mulch).
Here's the last photo of it while it's still big - it was one of my largest EE this year (compare to the nanner). I hate that it's going to shrink back to almost nothing over the winter, but it's one of my favorites and worth digging up each year if I must.
keonikale, Your garage looks worse than my basement! and I thought I had it bad. lol.
Wait, you mean this isn't normal? LOL, And this was BEFORE I moved the 4 large bananas in.
