I am from Zone 3 and need some tips in over-wintering my new Brugmansias. My two plants I have started from seed are Sanguinea and Arborea species. This is their first season, and since our summers our so short I didn't expect them to flower, which they didn't :( (We also had a lot of hail this year). I can't find much information on how to overwinter these plants on the forums and I see that many of you are from colder zones, so I was wondering if the panel of experts (you) can answer my questions. I am super excited and in love with these plants so I'd appreciate them surviving. It is about 6 C (43 F) at night right now.
Here goes:
At what point should I bring them inside? When they lose their leaves? When it goes below a certain temperature?
What can I expect to happen? Will they lose their leaves?
Should I cut them down?
How should I keep the soil? Moist?
At what temperature can I store them at? Can I store them in a dark crawl space which is at 15C (59F)? Do they need to have light?
They are infested by spider mites, which is pretty much standard for outdoors here. They are doing fine. Can I just leave them over the winter like this?
Do these plants flower when they reach a certain height, or should I expect them to flower next season?
Thanks in advance,
Janina
WINTERING BRUGMANSIA
I've found some great info on overwintering at
http://www.abads.net/winter/brugmansia_winter.html
(sorry in advance for linking abad. I understand this is taboo. I don't support them, it's just for the info only!)
But if you have some specific experience related to wintering Sanguinea and Arborea, you're tips would be much appreciated!
Leave them outside for as long as possible. Both types of Brugs can withstand cooler weather than other Brugs. You want them to be in the best health possible. So you will have to get rid of the spidermites. They will get worse, infest your other plants and increase the stress on the plants. You'll have to spray at least twice and it's easier to spray outdoors. It will be worth your while to start preparing them now. That way you can spray any spots you missed one last time. The object is to take in clean healthy plants. Strip the larger leaves (They'll fall off anyway.) off the plants before spraying. Neem oil works well against spidermites, is safe to use and the pests don't develop resistance to it.
Take the plants in when the weather report predicts a freeze. Don't prune your plants. If your growing season is short, you want to start with as large a plant as possible. You can choose to let your plants go dormant or semi-dormant. Either way the soil needs to stay on the drier side — just barely moist. Dormant plants are kept in dimly lit cool areas. The temperatures will need to be in the upper 30s to low 40s. Temperatures of 45ºF or higher in brightly lit surroundings will slow a Brugs' growth, but won't send them into dormancy. Mine don't go dormant in the greenhouse.
I ditto Betty d, could not have said it in a better way!, And she is in a warmer zone than me!
That's perfect! Thank you so much for the advice. Just what I was looking for!
I have a brand new brug given to me by a very kind member of the Mid-South forum. It is now blooming beautifully. I am in zone 5a so I need to overwinter it. I have been reading about the various temperatures at which brugs can be overwintered, but none match mine. Our basement is probably 60-65 degrees. Our attached garage is unheated,. I find that the wall next to the house works well for overwintering roses and zone 6 hydrangeas in containers, but would be too cold for brugs. We have a sunroom, but there are other plants that need to take that space (it was packed last year with heliotrope, hibiscus, and grasses).
I assume I should dig it up, but I am concerned about the correct temperature for storage. Can anyone help?
Thank you.
Donna
Hi Donna,I hope that gorgeous brug is on a pot. Is It? Then basement will be fine. If not try lifting it and getting her use to a confine envirotment like a nice pot!
Oh, Clemen, thank you. It is in a pot - a nice big pot. See? This is a pic from July.
Can you tell me how much moisture the baby should get?
Thank you!
Donna
Donna, if your basement is that warm during winter, your Brug will not go dormant. You will have to give her some light. Keep the soil on the drier side of moist. It will probably lose most of her leaves when it transitions to indoor conditions, but it'll recover.
Oh, thank you Betty. We have a south facing interior sun room that is normally about 68 degrees. That is where I allow plants that like warmth to go dormant. I will put my bruggie on the north side, away from direct light away from the window. She'll get some light but not too much.
Thank you Bettydee and everyone. The Bruggie people are very kind.
Donna
I'm SO glad someone asked this!! Was just peeking at all my new babies and thinking...hmmmm, how/when/what to do with them once the night temps start dipping too far. Good also to know about the neem...I seem to always forget about that...ugh! I was thinking "spray?" - but, but....my hummers!! Neem is perfect!!! Gonna hit the plumies with it too, I think.
I water my bruggies every two weeks in the winter, hardly any light at all, they do loose all of their leaves and come back in the spring when taken outside.
Great! Now I know I can put them in a place where they will be out of the way, and get low light. So nice to know I can stop worrying. It was a very nice gift.
Donna
She'll come back in the spring trust me!
You're a doll!
Donna
Any suggestions or "how to" links if they've gotten so big that they NEED to be cut back some prior to bringing in? Is there any absolute "do's or don'ts?" I want to do this correctly. Didn't realize till tonight just how large my CG had become...bless his heart - covered with blooms right now...I'm in utter heaven!!
There are differences of opinion on whether to cut prior to taking inside or wait until spring. There are pros and cons to both methods. You would have to decide what works best for you.
If you have to dig is up out of the ground to take it indoors, you have to trim some of the top to compensate for the loss of roots. Pruning before wintering indoors, allows you to pack more plants in the same amount of space. However, some Brugs are prone to die-back. Pruned branches will start to shrivel and dry out (die-back). Sometimes it stops at a branch joint. Sometimes it can continue all the way to the soil line. Most will come back from the roots. Some will not. I lost a beautiful lemon yellow Brug to it.
Some people prune jusst enough to allow them to take the plant indoors and others (I one of these) wait until spring to prune. Another reason I wait is that my Brugs don't go dormant because we get too many warm days. Nights may be cold, but many of the days get into the 60s. Growth slows down to a crawl. I also avoid most die-back.
So I recently have brought my brugs in, they are sitting in a closet downstairs at about 60 F. The soil is slightly moist. I also have them under two 40 watt grow lights (the tube kind) plus a 100 watt bulb grow light. They are about 1 foot above the brugs. I have it on a timer for 10 hours a day right now. I was also going to decrease the time the lights were on as the days get shorter. Is this ok? Should I be doing anything different?
Wonderful thread. Thank you all for being so helpful!
I was thinking I'd put large black trashbags over the brugs to overwinter in the garage. I thought I'd read it would work too. Either I can strip the leaves or just wait & they'll lose their leaves as they go dormant. Did I make that up?
What is anyone's overwintering suggestions if you don't have a cool place to keep them? I'm in an apartment (no garage or basement) with central heating. I lost my first brug a couple of years ago when I overwintered it and was too timid to remove the leaves and prune it back. I was really at fault but the plant had gone from a 2 ft branch cutting to a 6 footer over the summer and I had never pruned anything in my life before:lol:
This year I've got two very small (maybe 1 ft tall) plants on the patio--Snowbank, with the variagated leaves--and I'm not sure what I should do with them. I have seen a neighbor with a nice peach brug planted in her front yard and a customer at work and I got to talking plants and he grows brugs and says they will be OK planted out in our zone.
Any advice?
OH...waiting with bated (sp?) breath for the answer to this one...I'm in the same zone and didn't think any of these babies were hardy here. I was going to put them in the corner of my living rm with the Plumerias and let them go semi-dormant like I do with the plumies
I don't know about the garbage bags. You can strip their leaves and put them in your garage to go dormant as long as your garage doesn't have a lot of light coming into it.There is a woman on another forum named Tammie who lives in Odessa Tx. I think her zone is 7a. She has her brugs in the ground. If left uncoverd they die back to the ground but return with new growth starting in the spring. But last year she took bubble wrap and started wrapping it from the ground up to about one foot past the "Y" on the limbs. It stayed green and even had new leaves under the bubble wrap. The limbs that were left uncoverd died back to the bubble wrap. She has the pics to prove it.
Mulch heavily to help protect the roots from freeze. Oak leaves are good. Also watering any plant whether in a pot or in the ground before a freeze will insulate the roots. We did that in Florida whenever we would get a freeze.
You can prune back your brug that is in the pot if it's too big. Just stick the parts you cut in water until they root and give them to your friends or save in case your brug dies over wintering. Don't cut back too much, just enought to fit in your apt. or home. Another brug lover told me that last week. After the cuttings root stick in a pot with good potting soil.
I am not an expert by any means. This is what I have gleaned from other brug folks. I have my first brug that still hasn't "Y'd". It's four feet. I will try to put it in my greenhouse. One thing I have learned is that they are hardier than the nurseries or wholesalers say.
I will go check which forum it is and I will get back to all so you can go there and get some really good advice from folks who have been growing them for years.
ok the forum is -She's About To...#26. There are many people far more knowledgeable than I who can help you. Happy brugging!.
This message was edited Oct 13, 2008 6:39 PM
Thanks so much TG!!!!
Thanks for the tips...
I think I can get away with planting them in the ground (maybe one planted outside and one to take inside just in case) since I can plant it near the brick apt. building and in a mostly full sun location. Should have a slightly warmer micro climate just in case we do have an actual winter:lol:
I really do like the variegated leaves on Snowbank(s)?. It looks great even with no flowers:)
Thanks for the info on the thread also!!
Last year I wintered all my plants including my tropicals on my front porch. We had many nights in the 20's and days only in the 30's and 40's. My house is brick and the porch faces east. It would get the morning sun and heat up. The brick retained it's heat and always kept the porch 10 degrees warmer than the actual temp. So your brick micro climate should work. Just remember to water the ground good before the freeze and heavily mulch, like 3 to 4 inches. You can always try the bubble wrap. :)
I just started growing brugs this summer (zone 6a). Mine never bloomed. I tried 3 different places in my yard (they are in pots) to set them. They seemed to do best where they got morning sun but not afternoon. I brought them in the house about a month ago because we had a cold spell one night. They seem to be dropping their leaves. I have kinda scanned the chatter in this thread and I get the impression that this is normal. Am I correct? So, should I put a black trash bag on them and put them in the garage for winter? And if I do, do I have to water them during the winter? Do you think the pots were too small (8") and that's why they didn't bloom this summer?
Bubba, I can only take a guess because I am new to this too. It is normal for brugs to drop their bottom leaves. The pots are too small. These brugs can grow to be 10 to 12 ft tall. They need some room. Mine is four feet tall and is in a 12 in pot. Next year i will put it in the ground. Now I know a man who grows his in those big round plastic feed tubs you see in feed stores. Just have to poke some holes in them for drainage. I have a butterfly bush in one now.
I don't know why they haven't bloomed. Have they "Y'd" yet. They don't bloom until the main trunk splits into a Y. Mine hasn't y'd yet. So I probably won't get blooms until next year.
You can put your brug into a semi dormant state in your garage as long as the temps don't dip below 40 degrees or so, I believe. They need very little water at this time. I read someone watered theirs once every two weeks, then sparingly. I don't know that I'd put a bag over it. I worry about air circulation. But you know, try it. Just check on it every few days. If you do cover it, it will go dormant. Then it only needs water about once a month. Just don't cover the pot too so they can get air. I know there are northern growers who put theirs in the basement to go dormant. Boy I wish I had a basement.
You know, go over to the brug thread, She's About To...#27 and ask AuntB. She is very knowledgeable. I hope I didn't confuse you.
One plant was "y"d when I received it. It actually is the better plant. It tries to replace leaves where you can see it has dropped them. The other I bought off daves marketplace. It is a Miss Emily McKenzie. It is one long crooked stick 3 feet long. It only has a tuft of leaves at the top, it came to me this way. As it grows new leaves out the top it drops the bottom leaves. Has done this all summer. It does not have a "y". I was considering cutting it in half and trying to root the top half just to see if I could get it to fill out. I have a friend who said to feed them. I did. Didn't seem to make much difference. I am frustrated. And now I am having to fight my cats. One of them wants to chew on what leaves they have left. Thought they may fair better if I bagged them and put them in the garage for winter.
Bubba1 - not new to DG but to Brugs....first season to be exact. I will tell you that just about ALL of mine that I've had most of the summer have Y'd...seems odd your's hasn't for you. I'd make that a new post and see if some of the experts can help you out some.
I did start a thread about why mine hadn't Y'd when I first joined Dave's. One woman told me hers was 12 feet tall and hadn't y'd until it was 7ft tall. So I thought maybe mine wasn't so odd since it was only four feet tall. I think some of them are just tall trees and take a little longer to Y. I just figure I'm going to have one tall tree with plenty of room for the blooms to fall.
Bubba it is normal for them to drop leaves and grow new ones where the old ones were too. So I wouldn't worry too much about leaf drop unless it's the new top growth. Mine is doing that all the time. I feed it Miracle Grow once a week. Miss Emily won't bloom until she Y's. Be patient with her. She'll Y eventually is what I'm told.
I don't know if cutting her will make her fill out. If you do cut make sure the part you cut has those whitish nubbies on the stem. That's where the roots will emerge. Put the cutting in H202 ( 3 prts water to 1 part hydrogen peroxide) about 4-5 inches until roots are about an inch long, then pot. But I'd wait on her. She'll be worth the wait. That's what I'm doing with mine. Here is a pic of her before her lower leaves
started to drop. I can't help with the cats.. :)
Bubba, going camping for a week. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you if you posted again. Please go to the brugs forum and go to She's about to...#27 before they go to #28 and leave a post for AuntB about the bags over the brugs. There are others who know a lot also and I know they will help you. Don't give up on your brugs. Jeanne
New Brug plants coming from below the "Y" of the mother plant will need to produce vegetative growth. This growth varies in height according to each cultivar. That is why some produce a "Y" at 4' and others grow upwards of 7' before they "Y". There is nothing we can do to force a Brug to "Y" any sooner other than to make sure we keep them healthy and well fertilized. Since Brugs are heavy feeders, it is difficult to overfeed and feeding at least twice a week during its active growth period is recommended. Cutting the top off will not force the top to produce more side shoots. If you want a tree like Brug, you want a tall straight trunk. Bubba, you didn't mention how tall the plants in the 8" pots were. It could be that the pot is too small for the plant, but don't repot now. If the garage stays above freezing, your Brugs will be OK. Putting the plants in bags might create some issues for your Brugs. They were stay healthier if left unbagged. Don't set up a rigid schedule for watering. Use you fingers to test the soil moisture an inch or two below the surface. Keep the soil barely moist. If they go dormant, don't fertilize.
Brugs are not the bushiest plants in the world. They tend to be somewhat scraggly at times. Over time as they produce more "Y"s, they will look bushier.
Texasgrower, a 3:1 ratio of water to hydrogen peroxide is too high. Usually a teaspoon or two to a gallon of water is sufficient. Most cuttings only require 2" or 3" of water to root in.
See Bubba, I told you there are those who no more than me. Bettydee, I was given that ratio and water depth by another brug grower. So I'll split the difference. Obviously both mixes work well.
I put my 5 brugs back outside since the weather is nice. :~) I'm not sure what I'll end up doing with them now, so many different thoughts have been expressed. My Ecuador Pink has 3 buds! My first buds. I don't expect they'll bloom but it's pretty cool going to check the buds every am. I don't have a Y though & I don't understand that. I'm so new to all of this, it's been a wonderful learning experience. I've been thinking I'd repot again to maybe a 3 gallon size before I bundle them up for winter.
Thanks to everyone posting here with advice & questions, your suggestions make it so easy to understand.
Bettydee- Miss Emily Mckenzie is the one that is 3 ft. tall. She is in an 8" pot, and only has a tuft of leaves at the top. Kept her outside all summer, morning sun but not afternoon. Watered them both everyday during the hot months. Miss Emily Mckenzie never tried to fill leaves down the trunk where she had dropped them previously. The other one (my friend who gave it to me didn't know its name, but it's supposed to be white) is almost 2 1/2 ft. tall and has "y"d. It is also in an 8" pot. So far I still have them in the house. They are in my front window, getting bright light but not direct sunlight. From Texasgrower's picture (by the way, I have that pot!!!) I am thinking my pots are too small. My plants don't look like that. The leaves aren't deep green. I wish I could post a picture but I don't have the capability.
Overwintered my one brug in a basement which hovers between 52 and 57. One branch did shrivel and die but the plant came back and more than tripled in size this summer. It will fit down the basement stairs as it is (I think). However if I could prune a little, it would be easier.
"Jerad's Joy" appears to be the ground but it is hidden in a 15 gallon grow bag set in a hole. Would a little pruning endanger it? (it really seems to enjoy the cooler fall weather. This photo was taken today...it has been in bloom for a month now)
Davis, I'm one of those people that waits until the day before a freeze forecast. I usually check noaa's weather forecast daily or watch the local news for weather. Then I run around like crazy picking up pots putting them in the greenhouse and asking DH to turn on the propane heater.I would hazzard to guess it's too late to re-pot your Brug. They need about 1-1/2 to 2 months to get established and to send roots into the new soil. As the weather cools, it may take longer to accomplish this. Brugs in pots with too much soil that contains no roots remain wet too long and are prone to root rot. It would be safer to wait until spring to re-pot. You haven't mentioned how often you fertilized it. Your Brug hasn't "Y" because it isn't ready to do so. I know it sounds flippant, but as I said earlier, some need to grow taller before they produce that first "Y". Brugs will not grow new leaves in the same location where the old ones fell. If you will take a look at the leaf scars left by the fallen leaves, you will notice a dormant bud located just above the leaf scar. That bud will develop into a new branch at some point. Keeping the plant well fertilized and healthy will encourage it to branch out. You probably didn't fertilize enough if the leaves have been a light green. If you are going to keep them growing indoors, you could give them some dilute fertilizer, but don't fertilize if you plant to let them go dormant.
David, some DGers are proponents of pruning before bringing them indoors, but I don't like to prune unless the individual plant has lost roots. So I prune to compensate for that root loss. The reason I don't prune is because some Brugs tend to die back, some quite severely.
If space is at a premium, then by all means, prune, but you might want to spray some fungicide on the cuts. That might stop any die back.