Help! cats on my single milkweed plant

NEW STUFF!! SEE BOTTOM OF THREAD!!
I have a new monarch!!

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I am so thrilled, I have caterpillars (I think they are monarchs) on my milkweed.
But now I am very worried!
I counted and there are about 10 that I see (all very very small).
I only have one large milkweed plant (got it full-grown from a local plant store on a whim --- wish I had bought all of them!).
Will there be enough plant to feed them?
Should I just leave them alone or should I be 'helping' them in some way?

I am very new to this, and so excited that I have caterpillars, but now I am afraid that I will do something wrong! I will not allow insecticides around them, that is for sure.

Lorie in SC



This message was edited Sep 12, 2008 1:05 PM

another picture

with a penny for scale - this is one of the largest ones

So cute! I'll be interested in the reponses. I've been wondering the same thing with my one fennel plant. It's been completed decimated twice!

Ten cats on one plant? You're gonna need more milkweed. Monarchs are naturally poisonous so they do pretty well on their own if you want to leave them outside. Not using pesticides is a good plan; I find nature tends to take care of itself anyway.

Feel free to jump into our Daily Butterflies thread. There are newbies and experts who will be happy to help you each step of the way.

Melanie

Ack!
How many more plants? And now that I look closer it looks like there are eggs, too!

I do not know if I can get any more plants, and I have been 'stalking' the neighborhood to see if anyone has any. I hope the police understand when they pull me over:
"Honest, officer, I has just slowing down to see if that is a milkweed growing in their yard so that my caterpillars can have lunch!"

Well, therein lies the problem. The more milkweed you have, the more cats you attract. The more cats you have, the more milkweed you need. Even one or two cats can strip a plant. Oh, and you might want to squish that black and red bug in your last picture. It's what milkweed aphids grow up to be.

Melanie

ooh, he (the red bug) is a deader if I see him tomorrow.
Can I feed him to my gecko? Or will he taste bad like the cats do?

Definately need more milkweed. Look for an organic garden center in your area.

I just squish the bad bugs. If you see a bunch of yellow aphids on your milkweed, those are milkweed aphids and they like the seeds from what I've read. I tend to cut the seedpods before they get too ripe (unless I really want some seeds). Also, you can spray the aphids off with a hose set on "jet" spray. I've had a good crop of ladybugs around eating the aphids so that helps.

Do you know of any parks or public areas where milkweed grows wild? It won't be the same kind you bought, but it should work. It's always important to have a few emergency backup places where you know you can get food.

Pyro, you can always get fennel plants for them. They love it. You can e get them cut from the supermarket and place them in a bucket of water so they don't wilt. Place the bucket near the milkweed so the caterpillars can crawl from one plant to the next.

good luck!

Ummm...Monarch cats eat milkweed. Black Swallowtail cats eat fennel. I've never known a Monarch to eat anything but milkweed.

I have seen Monarch cats on my fennel plants. Maybe they were just strolling around.

I am sure someone knowledgeable will turn up and help.

Hark! A slightly different milkweed problem here. I have mucho milkweed, but cannot keep it alive from cuttings.

Yesterday I found some eggs on my milkweed and snipped a couple of stems to bring in the house. I placed them in water, but they immediately began to wilt. Today the milkweed is definitely dead and I am very worried about the little eggs. What to do?

My yard is a haven for birds, and I felt a need to protect the eggs. However, Mellie, I saw your posting above saying birds don't bother Monarchs because they are toxic to them. So, in the future I will leave the eggs alone, but in the meantime, is there anything I can do for my little doomed eggs. Would it be harmful to endeavor transplanting them to healthy milkweed plants back outside? I mean, I know the eggs have strong membranes, but how firmly are they stuck to the leaf, and would they pop if I forced them off?

BTW, thank you, Lori, for this helpful thread.

Martha in Mississippi.

That's so weird that your cutting wilt that fast. At the museum we use cuttings and place them in water and let the cats munch on them until there are no leaves left. Then, one of our volunteers has been taking the stubs that are left, replanting them, and they're growing just fine! How odd.

The birds might try one, but if they're smart they won't do it again. As far as the eggs go, I would leave them on the leaf they're on. You can sometimes use your fingernail to scrape them off, but I always end up denting them. I'd say take the leaf they're on and secure it to one of your other milkweed plants (lay it on the apex of some leaves or just somewhere it won't blow away). When they hatch, they'll wander toward the fresher food.

Melanie

Oh thank you Mellie. I will transplant the eggs now.

Perhaps it is the kind of milkweed I have that wilts when cut --Tropical Milkweed?

Mellie, whenever we have a bf problem we can't answer over in the Mid-South forum, we say, go to the BF forum and ask mellielong. You are becoming famous!!!

Martha

Wow! I'm a star! We mostly use tropical milkweed at the museum - it is Florida after all, lol. Maybe yours is just stubborn. Our milkweed does droop a bit but it doesn't get yellow or wilted until at least the next day. We put it in yogurt cups with an "X" slashed in the lid. I always say I feel like some demented florist - arranging bouquets for caterpillars! Generally, Monarch cats eat through it long before they wilt. I have a couple of milkweed plants I've left in their pots and I keep them on my patio as my "backup" food. I can also set the plants in my butterfly house and just let the cats roam around naturally.

Really though, the Monarch cats can fend for themselves fairly well. I tend to bring them in only when they're really big because 1) a lot of the little guys die through natural selection or other means I can't control, 2) I often don't see them until they're that big! I think they need the most protection as a chrysalis and when they first emerge.

Glad to be of help!
Melanie

Hi all....it's been awhil since I've been on.

Just wanted to tell of an experience I had with not enough milkweed. I had lots of cats last November when a cold spell hit so I snipped all the milkweed stems with the cats on them, brougt them in and put them in a large vase. I used porterweed as a filler to make sure they couldn't fall into the water. As the milkweed began to dwindle, several of the cats moved over to the porterweed and started eating it. Every single one of them went to chrysalis and everyone came out fine. I was amazed.

I hadn;t read all the way down before I posted - oops.

Melanie, I do the same thing....have several potted as back ups to move into the BF cage. I have a raised bed that I planted 10 large plants in at the beginning of spring. I won't do that again because it seemed to create a feeding station for wasps and other predators. I've been out there and have seen a litter of wasps feasting on babies all at once and it just broke my heart. Ants and milkweed bugs seem to get to them too, while they're babies and while they are big critters. I now go out every day and search for babies to move them before the predators arrive. I plan to dig most of the milkweed up and spread them all about the yard so that I'm not offering up a buffet any longer.

On a side note, we were taught to plant milkweed in between your roses. The aphids go to the milkweed and stay off the roses. I had purchased one of those bags of 1700 lady bugs and they devoured the aphids and then flew away. Now, several weeks later, I have LOTS of baby lady bugs all over the milkweed. Hooray!

That orange Monarch cat in the first pic looks strange! I prefer bringing the eggs or little cats in early before the parasites and parasitoids find them. Try collecting the foliage or cuttings in early morning, before it gets too warm, or in the evening. And put in water as soon as possible. Very badly wilted or old foliage is not good for the cats. A little wilted is okay...often it'll perk back up in water. I like this site for various insects on milkweed. Texas site, but mostly they're the same bugs.
http://www.texasento.net/MWpix.htm

This message was edited Aug 28, 2008 11:20 PM

I like to bring the eggs and baby cats in as soon as I find them as well. Too many predators.

A few weeks ago, I had many polydamas cats that I didn't move into the BF cage. I checked on them one morning and a few hours later, most were gone. I didn't have any spare pipevine to move into the cage so I covered them, as best I could, with a sheet, tent like. Next day, all gone again. I finally found the culprit. A squirrel had found them. Shortly after that, I had more babies and I did move them into the cage this time. Several days later, they were black and dead. I guess I didn't move them before parasites or a virus got to them. Pretty devastating.

This is extremely interesting to hear all of your experiences with eggs and cats. I do have a couple of butterfly socks ("socks" may not be the proper name). I have never used them but may start doing so.

There are very few squirrels in my backyard because I use "hot" sunflower seeds. These seeds have been treated with hot stuff, like tobasco hot sauce, etc. The squirrels won't eat them and have given up in my backyard. The birds, however, cannot taste the hotness and they love the seeds. Although you can treat the seeds yourself, here is the site where I found the seeds:

http://hotbirdseed.com/

Martha

Martha in MS....
I had the same thing happen (wilted MW) but when it didn't perk up after several hours, I took it out and did a new cut. It perked up immediately then. I think I had cut it out in the heat and waited a few minutes before going inside to put it in water. The milky sap had sealed the cut.

I have never heard of that seed before. What a fantastic idea!

Sheila and Mellie: Smart girls, you pinpointed my problem right away! At 5:30 this morning, while it was cool, I went outside with my vessel of water in-hand and snipped a fresh milkweed stem. I plunged it into the water immediately. It's almost 2 p.m. and the cutting is as fresh as a daisy! Hooray, and thanks!

Martha in MS

The voice of experience, sometimes it helps.

I don't use milkweed stems in my small containers I pick the leaves rinse them and put them in the container, only two or three at a time, that way they are always fresh and i don't destroy the plants. The leaves go a lot farther that way, I give them new leaves as soon as those are gone, usually twice a day, and clean the cage at that time also. I keep a folded napkin at the bottom of the container and that makes it very easy to clean.
Josephine.

I misstated myself. It was you, Linda, who first told me to go out early in the morn to collect milkweed, and then put it in water right away. I also forgot to say that I love Mellie's idea of using a yogart cup with a hole in the lid for a vase. I adopted that idea this morning.

Josephine, I don't know if my Milkweed leaves will stay fresh without a supply of water. I can certainly try that, though. I do, however, keep paper towels in the bottom of my cage, and you are right -- it does make it easier to clean.

Thanks all for your generous help.

Martha

Another thing that has been happening lately is that I kept seeing the monarchs laying eggs but no cats to be found anywhere, so I watched the mom lay the eggs and immediately after she left I collected the eggs, there were 6 of them one on each separate leaf.
The I wondered how I could keep the leaves green and fresh until they hatched. So I took the folded napkin and wet it and set on the bottom of the tupperware container than I laid the leaves on the wet napkin and misted the leaves once or twice a day. They stayed fresh until the eggs hatched, 3 out of the 6.
They are now big enough to pupate and looking great, I plant to do this with eggs from now on.
Josephine.

Martha, is you only give them one or two leaves at a time depending on how big they are, the leaves don't have a chance to wilt, they disappear long before that happens.
It is a good way to be economical with the food supply.

Josephine, ingenious (and necessity) is the mother of invention! I've learned a library of information, all in the span of a few days! Thanks.

Martha

In my house, I only pick a few leaves at a time for the reasons stated above. At the museum I naturally adopted their methods, but the yogurt cups work well because we have so many caterpillars. I often come in and they're gnawing on the stubs.

I didn't really think about it, but when I go cut the milkweed I take a little bucket of water with me to throw them in. I know making a fresh cut is recommended for floral bouquets so I imagine it's a good idea for caterpillars bouquets, too!

Thank you all for the wonderful conversation about my cats and milkweed. I have leaned a bunch! I hate to admit this, but this is my first experience is seeing Monarchs, let alone actually having cats! So I am very excited.

2 bits of news, one bad, one good.
Bad first, the plant shop where I bought the yellow milkweed does not have any more - and I have yet to locate more, though I am going to go 'weedy lot hopping' with a guidebook and pictures of wild milkweed in hand - hopefully I will find some more.
I will also post onto the Carolinas forum to see if any of my Daves neighbors have any nearby.

Here is the species tag from my plant

Okay, good news next

The cats seem to be doing fine- I took pictures yesterday and they are growing and munching and I offed that Milkweed bug

That's exciting news to see your cat grow, Lori.

If you don't find any milkweed, try what Knolan in TX did. Give the cats porterweed, if you can find any of that. Also, there seem to be many kinds of plants in the Milkweed family. Look here and see if you can find any one plant common in your SC area.

Martha

Edited to say Whoops. Forgot the link. Thanks, Sheila.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/search.php?q=milkweed+family&Search=Search+PlantFiles

This message was edited Aug 30, 2008 2:24 PM

Forgot the link ?

So Sad!
My cats are GONE!
There were 6 big ones there yesterday morning, hubby went out last night saifd he could find non- I found one.

This am none were there, I examines every leaf and stem, and , as you all know, I only have one plant!
Where could they have done? They were not old enough to pupate, right? Only a week or so old?

I am SO sad.

Yes, very sad to say, but I bet somebody ate them. They claim the only about 2% of the eggs laid by butterflies make it to adulthood, and I think they are right. Sorry, maybe next time you can bring some in.
One of my monarchs raised from eggs has already pupated and the other two are very close.
Give it a try next time, I know you will love it.
Josephine.

1. If they were big enough to pupate, they would crawl off to make chrysalis. Sometimes they will go 15 foot away.
2. Then if they weren't big enough, they may have gone in search of other food since your plant was defoliated.
3. Worst senario they were carried off by wasp, eaten by birds, frogs, or lizards.
It is a tough cruel world out there for them. That is why only about 2% make it when unassisted.


Sorry....cross posted with you Josephine..

This message was edited Aug 31, 2008 10:30 AM

Simple way to start is with a Glad container or two. Use wet floral foam in a cup, or just loose leaves. Fresh needs to be added every day. Here is a pic of my container with a BST cat.