What number qualifies as TOO many?

Did a "head" count the other day to see what had to come in this winter. Ohhh, I'm in trouble.

I had a heck of a time fitting 60+ in the garage last year and my count has somehow reached 108 now - 16 of which are 24" or greater. So who's garage (or greenhouse) can I borrow? LOL

If I was you and wanted to could go cheap I would build a PVC and plastic green house for the winter. Just put it up for a few months in the winter. Cheap and effective. Reuseable and moveable too.

i think he has two portable ones (or at least one...), but he cant keep a greenhouse outside because of neighborhood covenants

It might be time to look for greenhouse space you can rent. I think I would put an ad in the Market Bulletin. I remember many gh's in the Lexington/Saluda area. You might have to sleep there on the cold nights however, to make sure the heat was working. LOL Who would have thought when you bought that house you would turn into a plant collector of epic proportions.

http://agriculture.sc.gov/content.aspx?ContentID=413

Thanks for the tip. I didn't even think about renting, but maybe that's an option. I'll look into that. I think my folks already have the MB, so I'll check with them.

I actually have been testing my luck with the potable GH in the backyard. I left the small one (which was the same height as my fence) up for several months at the end of winter and into this spring. No complaints. Luckily the woods behind our house block the view entirely this time of year. So a month or so ago I took the 6' one down and put the 8' one up which is much much larger (10x10). It's noticeable, but again - I haven't heard anything and it's not like other folks don't have stuff sticking up in their back yards - trampolines, etc. And now that the lots behind us through the woods are being developed, it's harder to see my yard from the road - even in winter. So *maybe* that'll work; I was probably just being paranoid honestly. Hopefully my yard more than makes up for any ugliness sticking above my fence in the back.

Course, I still run the issue of how to heat it adequately, that plastic hardly keeps the cold out at all. I was planning to put hibiscus, a few banana pups, and older hardier palms (like my chinese fan palms) in there. Maybe a small gas heater will work on the very cold nights. I made sure to bury the edges down an inch or so in the ground to seal it this time, so that may help too.

I get the feeling this is going to my regular fall routine for a while. Once some things get taller than my 13' garage ceiling though, I guess I'll have to sell some things. No doubt the travelers palms will be the first in that predicament. Those things are kinda slow at first, but when they take off - watch out.

yeah... did your traveler's palms get over whatever that thing was that was killing them? can you post picture of your yard so we can see it? it seems like it should be quite impressive if you're in such a predicament.

If your neighbors don't care and you really can't see the temp green house I wouldn't worry about it. Just use it when you have to then take it down. POA or HOA, whatever probably won't do anything if someone doesn't point it out.

Now if a wind storm tears into small pieces and then plastic flys around the hood, you may have a problem.

yeah i have a permanent greenhouse in my yard and we arent allowed to have them.... its hidden, and the people that see it dont mine and they like our yard enough to not say anything.....

LOL, if a wind storm tears this plastic, it's going to be a F3 tornado, so my yard and house will probably be over the hood. The plastic is very thick, just doesn't seem to keep the cold out that well. Or it sure didn't seem like it last winter, but my digital thermometer could have been off.

Thanks to recommendations here at DG I was told about Clearys and after spraying that on all the Travelers Palms and White BOP's, it seems to have done the trick, they're all healthy. Including the 10 (not-so-small) babies I bought at the beginning of spring. Seriously, those things went from a foot tall to close to 3' tall - and this is usually when they really pick up speed growing. So now I have 12 of these things. I guess I freaked after I lost my biggest one last year. But I just moved the largest one into a new pot, and it looks healthy. Will spray them all again heavily before moving them in for the winter.

I need to post another update, but I started a Tropical Project thread earlier this year for the yard transition. BWilliams and others really inspired me to push my luck with a few plants outside this zone, so I'm hoping with a good mulch I'll see most of these come back next year. Will post some updated photos ASAP.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/830124/

keonikale, I saw this post as well as the one on Tropicals and wanted to ask....what kinds of plants are you trying to overwinter? and are the plants you're counting now in the ground and you're going to dig them?

I did want to assure that you can safely plant the musa velutina in the ground with no problems in your zone, and your cavendish should be fine outside with a good layer of mulch as well in your zone from what I've reaf. In 8a you are in a climate that can support an awful lot of tropicals, even if you are on the lower end of the zones. Hate to see you do more work than you need to :)

Lots of folks ask about the portable GH. Here's the link where I purchased mine. I have the Farmhouse and the Dreamhouse. Both have been great. I staked them on all sides and corners and they've taken several storms without any problem, including some real gusty winds and nice size limbs falling on them. Very sturdy and solid product IMHO. I've been impressed.

http://www.teakwickerandmore.com/Flowerhouse-FHFH700-XJ1010.html

Thanks Tropicanna. If I can leave them in the ground, I'd certainly like to. My wife and I did a count after I suggested digging up a Basjoo - I just like to have something nice and green I can put out in April, and I won't have anything if I don't save anything. BUT... there looks to be no room for anything. Everything we counted was either in a pot above ground or one that was sunk into the ground. Half our front yard is potted under the ground, LOL. So our front yard will practically disappear at the first frost. It's kinda funny and sad at the same time.

I only have three plants I must dig up that aren't in pots - all small. A wild pink ginger I brought home from Hawaii this year, a Torch Ginger, and a Red Ginger. I'm hoping to leave all my other gingers in the ground, including the beehive, shampoo, and kahili. I'm probably pushing my luck, but I'm trying a blue ginger in the ground too - though I still have the parent plant in a pot. All the other gingers are hardy, so I'm not worried about them. I also put a parrots beak heliconia in the ground, but I still have the parent of that too.

I think beyond that everything in the ground is fairly safe. I have several EE I've recently transplanted (babies) and I hope they survive. They grow roots pretty quick so by the end of Oct they should be fine, especially with a good mulch. The seeds I harvested last year have now grown into nice size plants. I was proud of those - I'd never done that before. I just hope I get more this year, maybe can sell them next spring at my folks flower farm.

Only plants I'm reaaaly pushing my luck with are the pothos, monster, and a ti plant. All three are sheltered either right next to the house or under a tree, but I'm not counting on them to survive. Even the pothos that made it through last winter with no mulch is MUCH smaller this year and likely wouldn't make it without protection.

If I ever get my lazy butt off this couch, I'll take a picture of my two -year old, 3 inch high Ti plant!!! lol, I'm amazed it came back this year, shrimpy as it was last year. I predict that you'll have a little better luck...but that it will still come back smaller than it is now :)

What I'm finding here is that I can push to an 8a, not always consistently.....maybe 8b if I'm lucky, but not really anymore than that. I have had my trialing bubble burst enough to now consider any tropicals I leave out annuals and I'll be happy if they come back. I no longer have any desire to grow anything outside that would require long-term winter maintenance. I noticed one thing from the wintering tropicals up north thread was that the really iffy stuff was basically left all winter with trash bags filled with leaves around the plants as an insulator then with leaves on top..... I wouldn't go thru that much trouble for any of my plants but if you really wanted to keep them out it might be worth a try. Similar to filling wire cages with mulch around musas. Another thing to consider though is that commercial growers have access to bales of pro growing mix, etc which allows for great drainage..better than your avg. gardener will have in their yard and thereby increasing your chances of winter survival

so you're keeping hibiscus and stuff in the lil GH'es? ...if you're running out of space now is a good time to take cuttings...

I am hoping to put a lot of black manure on top of the ground and then mulch with leaves/hay around the trunks of the musas. I might even wrap cloth and black pipe around the larger ones so they start back nice and tall. It's going to be a spring of rejoicing or horror next year, LOL

But luckily all the potted stuff can go back out real quick and pretty the ugly spring yard up a bit. I do plan to put anything I either: a.) don't really care as much about or b.) can take the colder temps in the portable GH. I'll probably trim up most everything I can. I had BAD aphid issues last winter and don't want that problem again. White flies too, argh.

The rest goes in the garage (which I'm caulking and putting tarps on the walls this year to help keep it real cozy without running my electric bill through the roof again). The halides are bad enough at 2000W total, but the electric heater is what hurts. I kept it close to 70F inside all last winter, but that was probably WAY more than I needed. Even the two large Christmas Palms could survive OK in the 60's I think. They pencil neck some in the winter, but I can't do much about it. I'll enjoy them as much and as long as I can.

And if you want a big Ti, I could share a cutting. Mine keep growing out of their darn pots. One ti I brought home from HI in 2005 has managed to outgrow its 24" pot. It's time to get out the clippers. The tap root literally pushes it up and out of the pot. I've never seen such aggressive tap roots before.

We need to see a photo of this amazing Ti.

My neighbor in Columbia used to put a wire cage around his bananas, cut the plant down to about 10" lower than the top of the wire, and and fill it the cage with leaves and pine straw. He never bothered to put plastic over the contraption and his plants leafed out early and he always had lots of fruit on them.

I think the problem in most areas of the Carolinas is these darn late freezes. The warm spring weather gets everything growing then the cold snap does in all the tender new growth. Gardening patience in the spring time is key; never undo the cages until it is reliably warm.

Good point. I learned that this year. Took everything out in late March/early April and come April 15 - wham, frost.

Luckily we got everything covered up. Looked like the circus had come to my yard.

here's the mighty Ti plant that survived two (mild) 7b winters ...lol

and for a frame of reference, you can see the bud on the geranium and the eaten up ipomoea vines, equally unimpressive :)

That is a pretty one and I love that it lokes living inthe midlands.

Don't feel bad about your ipomeas; mine are eaten up too but mine are eaten by deer!!!!!

thanks ardesia, before anyone feels sorry for me, I have better looking Tis and ipomoea vines...lol. I really didn't expect the little Ti to come back this year, since it didn't get much bigger than that after the first winter out.

It is in...not really a raised bed but more like a mounded position, so I think that helped along with a decent layer of mulch. From what little I've done, I can tell a big difference that most tropicals or marginally hardy tropicals benefit soooo much more from having better drainage/ drier winter conditions

You got it! The drier winter conditions are key and that is why I don't use any moisture holding crystals in my soil. I am so afraid it will stay too damp in the winter. I do use the crystals for annual types.

Well your Ti gives me hope mine will make it through as well. I imagine with the tap root they send down they can survive a pretty good cold spell if they wanted too.

I am glad you are easily inspired keonikale! lol

I had a few other marginal success stories with the var. alpinia zerumbet, xanthosoma sagittofolium, and alpinia formosona...nothing impressive now but you'd probably have better luck with those in your zone. with the alpinias, I mounded them with leaves really hard, whatever was covered by leaves stayed alive all winter, but they never have grown very big

you really should try kaempferias for shade, if I was in your zone, I woud insist upon having them all, they are cool looking. pretty enough that I'm going to committ to digging them every year..lol

Keonikale: What do you use to heat your portable GH?
Deb

Well I'm thinking of getting a small propane heater. Last year for the two weeks or so I used the smaller GH I used an electric heater, but gave up after it didn't seem to help much. Plus I have to be careful how much power I use on the outside outlets, bc they also power the garage (thus the halides). I tripped that breaker so often it was almost comedic for a while around Christmas (also plugged into the yard outlet).

In any event, I was using a digital thermometer in the GH outside and that may have been misreading. Typically it only showed a 2-5 degree difference in temperature, which wasn't great when we got into the teens. My folks suggested a heat lamp too, so maybe I'll try that on the less frigid nights.

Geez, keonikale! Your experience has been much different than mine. I have a little 6'x6' greenhouse (non-insulated) that I use to over-winter citrus in. Power it with a little electric heater, and the temp never dropped below 45 degrees last winter...even though outside ambient air was in the 20's. All are fruiting well now (mostly Key Limes & Tangerines). Do you have a HI/Low thermometer in the GH to measure temp. change?

I had a digital one, but it could have been off. I'm going to try and use one this year that doesn't have anything near the edges. The digital one had a wire that measured the temp outside as well, so it could have been miscalculating. I may just try and stick with an electric heater - the gas makes me a little nervous in that semi-tight space. Most of what I plan to put in there can handle the cold, just not a freeze. All the really sensitive stuff will be in the garage nice and warm.

Back when I had a GH in Maryland I kept it cosy with a small electric heater. If it was predicted to get unusually cold like on nights when it was supposd to be in the low teens I added a second heater, but that was rare. I used one of those thermometers that recorded the minimum and maxium temps. The GH was a pretty good size, 14' x 14' or 16", I can't remember exactly. It did have rigid plastic walls but they were thin. I would get a good thermometer before changing the heating system.

My two cents .. when I lived in England they would wrap the interior of greenhouses and cold frames with bubble wrap.

Here are a few posts about what I use for heat in my little gh.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4347757

Portable thermostat (it's reversible, can use it in summer to start a fan)

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4356012

I've never ever gotten frost bit in the greenhouse. I started using the box fan last January and it made a big, big difference.

X

Thanks, I'll read up on that. That fan idea might do the trick. It's a lot cheaper than running a heater on low all night. What I need is a good thermostat like you said.