I finally found out what happened to my missing fish that I thought a heron or other animal stole. He wedged himself tightly between two rocks and was dead there. He was missing a few days but upon exam I didn't see anything with my naked eye (no I don't have a microscope-it's on my wish list for my birthday . . .). I had my husband lift his gill flaps (is that the right word?) and instead of being red meat colored they were white. Is that how he was when he died or a result of death plus a few days of being dead in the pond that his gills went white? His eyes were white as well but I'm thinking that is because he was dead for a few days. Otherwise he looked okay-nothing obvious. I also found the second fish that was MIA, my Ki Utsuri. He was spooked and hiding underneath a bunch of plants. More about him farther down this post.
I tested the water and here are my results:
Nitrates: 0
amonia: 0
Ph: 8.5
Kh: 10 drops (until the color turned yellow)
salt: was at .03 but I increased it to .13
I thought the Kh could use a little boosting with baking soda but wasn't sure how much to put into the pond-anyone have any suggestions or guidelines?
I am thinking of pulling my ki Utsuri out of the pond and quaranteen him since it is always on his own in the pond. This fish has always been "weird" probably due to a lack of oxygen during transport. My dealer told me that the delivery that this fish came in on was "LOST" at the federal express depot for an additional 24 hours. He expected all the fish to be dead but only two died. I really liked the look of this fish and decided if he had "issues" from decreased oxygen he would be my "special needs" fish. This fish just kinda stared up at me and didn't do too much when I first got him but now is more frightened. Anyone have any input on this fish?
Also, I noticed my pond smelled "fishy" tonight. The dead fish had a smell but that was hours ago and the area around the pond stinks fishy. I just did a small water change 2 days ago to clean up my plants and look for my MIA fish so I would think the water wouldn't smell. I plan to change the water out a little more tomorrow. Can anyone give me some feedback on the smell?
Also, rest of the school not swimming around much-they seem scared. They are eating but mostly when I come near the pond they quickly swim to the deepest area and are cautious.
Found my Hi Utsuri fish but it was dead-why?
Hi MM
Maybe what ever spooked all of them caused the Hi to look for a space to hide quickly to get away, only to discover (s)he was stuck and couldn't get out.
I have had fish swim into areas from which they cannot escape. Then, they exhaust themselves trying to escape. However, those fish usually show wounds from the struggle.
I am glad to hear you have spotted the Ki. That's a relief.
I've noticed that the pond smells fishy when it gets really warm and the filter hasn't been cleaned in a while. The charcoal filter pads only work for so long before they are spent and need replacing. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can shed more light on that for us. There must be a way to "recharge" the carbon??
The smell is gone today and I also added AIR to the pond to increase movement and oxygen. Later I plant to net my ki Utsuri and observe in the hospital tank.
Glad you have an isolation tank set up. Keep us informed on the observations!!
All my fish are acting weird now. They are all in the deepest part of the pond and not moving much. Not even for food which is weird for them. They are easily spooked as well. Even when I first put my koi in the pond they weren't this spooked. They took their time going for food but at least they ate but not now. Someone please advise me!!!
Are they laying on the bottom with their fins clamped tight to their sides? Clamped fins are a sign of illness. If it was me I would leave the ki alone. Netting and moving just adds stress. The commotion will stress all the koi. Your water parameters are good. No need to change anything. Have you done a morning, mid day and early evening pH test to check for pH swings?
Carbon can be rinsed and reused for a limited time. It depends on the amount and the length of time in service and what pollutants you're after to remove. I use 10 lbs for about 2 months in 2500 gal, rinsing clean about every two weeks.
I would add koi clay to the weekly regimen. It has minerals very beneficial to koi.
http://www.koiclay.com/
http://www.pondpetsusa.com/pond_clay/thrivekoiclay.html
MibrobeLift sells it too.
Raising the Kh with baking soda will also raise the pH. You are at the upper end of the acceptable limit already. Not a good idea. Wide Ph swings are not good. Definitely not good. Koi will adjust to stable water environment. The key word here being "stable".
What is "AIR"? Do you mean a bubbler?
This message was edited Aug 11, 2008 9:48 PM
Thanks Snapple-air is bubbler. The fish aren't fin clamped that I can tell and now that it is night they are swimming around wrecking havoc on the pond plants-so I guess that is a good sign! I never knew I had to rinse the carbon!!!! Okay-I will do that tomorrow morning. I have two very large bags of it but not sure of the amount until I go outside and read the big bucket (I saved it -and it has been handy in the pond and garden). Okay I will check into the carbon and into the clay and do multiple Ph tests throughout the day. Stay with me on this Snapple-I need your direct approach!!
Don't rinse in tap water .... rinse in some removed pond water, so you don't disturb the beneficials ..... I think that's the rule.
Already rinsed in our well water-no way on earth that I would ever get it all cleaned out so don't worry about the beneficial bacteria. I have a lot of other filters that have the good stuff on them. Just lifting the heavy carbon bags out to rinse them made a mess out of the pond-all this "dirt" went down the waterfall and made the pond murky. In a few hours it will be cleared up.
I rinse my carbon off with the hose and roll it around lightly to break up the collected organic film. This exposes clean carbon surfaces to take up more pollutants or whatever you're pulling out of the pond water. It's OK because carbon is chemical filtration, not biological filtration.
The clay is really good for the koi. It will cloud the pond temporarily. But it doesnt last more than a 1/2 hr or so. It will also attach to and settle some of the fine organic particles in the water and actually improve water clarity too. But it's the minerals it provides to the fish that are so desirable.
Direct. Hmm. Ya know, everybody tells me that. But, you need information - I have information. That's it really.
I'm glad its not clamped fins. That's a sign of real trouble.
Thanks for all that info snapple and for your practical experience, esp.
I am glad to hear that I don't have to pamper the carbon so. Saves a little bit of extra work. More time to watch.
I am guessing that when people say "direct," they are really noting your fine ability to concisely compose meaningful information without a lot of hoop-de-do.
Terse or verbose, I too appreciate it.
Generous people sharing information at DG saved my ponding backside on many an occaison back when I first got started. I learned so much from them. Plus I learned from the mistakes I made along the way. No point in anybody repeating a mistake if it can be avoided.
No one has ever described my "directness" in such a tactful and elegant manner. I'm showing that to my DH. :D
Snapple I'm direct too. I am a very black and white person and find anything but direct very confusing!!!
At the moment my pond seems okay. Fish are very odd still but swim around late at night (I watch from my bathroom window . . .). I suspect that maybe there was a spawning a few days ago and that may account for the smell and the wreck of plants in the pond a few days ago (maybe even the dead fish wedged in between the rocks). I do recall some bubbling around the plants about 6 days ago (also when I had to go into the pond and fix the plants and when my fish went MIA). I don't recall any fish being "heavy with eggs" though. We did have a spell of extremely hot weather for 2 weeks prior to this happening.
I cleaned the carbon, ordered some koi clay and will keep you posted!
Sounds like a good plan. Think about a remote pond thermometer.
Adding the airstone is a good move. Anytime the water gets very warm during the summer months, dissolved oxygen is eliminated very quickly.
The cooler water is at the bottom of the pond, where the ground insulates it slightly, so quite often the fish will sit there during the day.
Snapples correct once again, clamped fins are a sign for immediate action.....so it's a good think none of yours show signs of that!
Okay, it seems my fish aren't as vibrant in color as they used to be. They seem "dull". One looks like it might have his dorsal fin pulled down onto his/her back. They all still are in the center not doing much but do move around the pond at night. Any movement by me around the pond sends the hiding and pushing each other to hide better. Occasionally one will get pushed out and will do a frantic scared lap around the pond and then return to the school at the bottom. All the measurements are same and I am feeding medicated food just in case and the salt is at .3. Water and air temperature is much better (not as hot but still have the air stones on. None of the fish are sucking down air anywhere (no sign of oxygen issues).
Another thing, about 14 days ago I trimmed and fertilized my plants and as a result some string algae has developed in the pond. Can this be related? I had some string algae in Spring but I have so many plants now in the pond that they suck up all the nutrients pretty much-with the exception of this last feeding. It's improving though.
At what point do I net fish and scape and scope? I think I will get my microscope early (not wait for my birthday).
When they don't eat is cause for scraping and scoping. Do they have lily pads or any shelter than can hide under? What kind of fertilizer? I think your fish might have predatoritis.
The plant fertilizer is something I bought in the last water lilly co-op.
Predatoritis: Funny-Dr. Snapple, how long does it take them to get over this? One little butterfly is starting to venture out a little bit from the center looking for food. As soon as I come close -boom- back to the school!!
Nah, Its not the fertiizer. Do you resemble in any way a heron or whooping crane perhaps?
Yes indeedy, it sounds like they've been scared to death from some source! Eventually they settle again (and trust me, they certainly won't starve to death if there are plants in the pond) and come to the surface to see you. Mine are like Pavlov's dogs...even after an occassional scare here and there....I always make sure I feed them in the same spot every morning, so they know when I walk around the deck to that side, they should all come to the surface.
I agree... there is a predator that is scaring them. I wouldn't pull them out, quarateen them or mess with the water. Just give them areas to hide... and protect them from predators. IMHO. BTW, string algae won't hurt anything, but it annoys us humans.
Brenda
I know the fertilizer and algae won't hurt but wondered why all of a sudden it acted up now?
BTW: Fish still spooked and it looks like a lost a few . . . Too big to hide anywhere for that long. My friendliest "tancho" is MIA. She/he was a food nutcase and would even come up onto rocks to get food that didn't quit make it into the pond. I added additional fishing line to the pond last night and nothing seemed to be out of place so hopefully that will stop the beast that ate my tancho. I also added some bouncy balls (someone here said that they do this to confuse the herons). I can't remember who but at $1.00 per ball at walmart I bought a few today.
MM
Are the fishing line and the balls the only things you have done to get rid of the heron problem? I ask, because it doesn't sound like it is working. Right now, I would be less concerned about the fish hiding than I would with the heron. The fact that the fish are hiding is going to be one of their better defenses at this point in time. My understanding is that a heron will keep coming back until they clean all of the fish out of the pond.
Have you looked at the water scarecrows?
I can attest to the pond getting cleaned out. It happened to my small goldfish pond. In two days time I lost six of the eight before I netted. Then the net was trashed at night/early morning for another two days before whatever it was gave up. No fun.
I have a scarecrow too! What else do you suggest? I put in the wal-mart balls today.
Wow, so sorry to hear with all that you've done that you're still having problems. I hope the predators go away now!!!
you may want to net the entire pond for awhile. You'll have to think about netting the pond for fall here shortly anyway. I know we typically net the pond for fall around mid October. Although you are technically the same zone, I am under the impression that our weather is milder than yours.
Carolyn: I would probably start leaf netting in late September just to be on the cautious side. I think I will net the pond for a while anyway though until this "beast" stops his or her "feast". I am officially missing two fish but none from the last few days or so. I really enjoyed my crazy Tancho-even my dogs don't go crazy for food the way that fish did. I'll have to be on the lookout for another nutcase eating monster when I know the "beast" has retired his dinnertime meal plan here. The Le Chef Mothermole restaurant is officially closed down!