Quinces instead of crab pears, hybrid?

Well, in my hunt to find what this tree is, I'm running into a tree trunk. Simply put, my tree is too big. Too big to be a Bartlett Pear, too big to be a Quince. Is there a possibility of some kind of hybrid?

Then there's the "smell", or, rather, lack of it. Bradford Pears are supposed to smell terrible when they bloom, these don't. Quince (fruit) are supposed to smell wonderful. SAo far, no detecable smell, but they haven't reached full size.

Unless anyone has any more ideas, I guess I'll wait til they get bigger.

This message was edited Jul 29, 2008 6:28 PM

Can you send us a picture of both the tree and the fruit? Quince trees that I am aware of are not all that tall and rather shrubby. If this is larger than a pear tree, then I kind of doubt it is a quince.

Okay, I'll try to shoo the cows into the next pasture, and get some pictures. They are much too helpful when I try to get something done other than scratch their ears...:)

Nice cows. I find myself wondering if your tree isn't some sort of natural cross between????? who knows.

I live in So. IL and my Quince bloomed months ago. I don't think there is any kind of fruit tree that would be blooming now
RED

Oh, it isn't blooming now, it has fruit. It bloomed in April, I think.

I may have figured it out. I'm gonna post pictures anyway, and I'm still VERY open to suggestions.

I think the fruit is on growth from whatever stock was used to graft onto. Of course, that leads to the question, are ornamental pears grafted? I don't know. The fruit seems to be only on one "trunk".

Here come the pictures...First, the tree;

This message was edited Jul 29, 2008 6:49 PM

Okay, the "mutant" fruit, on the tree..

The "normal" Bradford Pear fruit, same tree, different branch....

upper right quadrant, the itsy bitsy thing in front of the leaf..

This message was edited Jul 29, 2008 6:29 PM

The fruit as of today, I remember it as getting to be the size of a normal Bartlett Pear. The last ones I treated as pears (picked "green" and chilled), but they never ripened. Neither did the ones on the tree, that I remember...

This message was edited Jul 29, 2008 6:57 PM

And, finally, the trunk(s) of the tree. The suspect is the smaller diameter, light colored one in the center of the picture. It _seems_ to be the source of the mutant pear-like objects...

So, there you have it. My Mutant Pear Tree. Basically, I want to kno if I can use them, and so far, I've been told yes, I can cook and can. All suggestions welcome. I'd hate to waste them...

Thanks!

Pears are often grafted onto quince stock. And quinces do look a bit like pears. Do you have any idea how old your tree is and where it might have been purchased? That might be a clue. It is not at all rare for shoots to come up from the root stock. People are told to cut them off so the tree doesn't become whatever the root stock is. Looks like your tree has done just that.
Here is an article on rootstocks for sale at Trees of Antiquity:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/index.php?main_page=page_6

And here is a description of rootstocks from Bay Laurel Nursery.

They really aren't very clear on what kind of tree the root stock is -- apple, pear, or quince. They talk more about what using that rootstock will do to the tree one grafts onto the stock. The place to learn that is in the most wonderful fruit tree books I have ever seen. It might be in your library. It is listed in the Garden Bookworm:

http://davesgarden.com/products/gbw/c/307/

It describes the root stocks for every kind of fruit tree I have ever heard of and plenty I haven't. It also describes all the fruit trees available for sale in the US. I did not find where it said what rootstock is used on a Bradford pear though. Maybe some nursery will know? I suggest you borrow or buy the book and read up on pear rootstocks which can be various tough pear trees from all over the world or quince. There is one called pyrus betufolia which makes a 30 ft. tree -- which yours looks like.
There are old fashioned pears which are only good for cooking but hold up nicely and taste good with the addition of sugar or sweet wine. Quinces are handled much the same way. Quinces are used a lot in Europe and the middle east and even Latin America for jams and jellies and desserts. I would try picking some around your first frost and trying cooking them pealed and with sugar and see how they taste. They might be good.

This could be an adventure.

Someone planted a grafted pear and it sprouted from the roots. The one branch with the big fruits is the original pear, and the rest is sprouts from the rootstock which is now dominating the original tree. This is surprisingly common to find on old trees because the rootstock may grow more vigorously than the top variety. Many kinds of pears with small fruits have been used as rootstocks over the years: pyrus betufolia, pyrus callryana (sic), etc. The original tree was either a Bartlett or some other cultivated variety pear. You should be able to ripen those guys.

Scott

Yes, scottfsmith, I think that is the long and the short of it. But you may still have to cook the pears once they are ripe. Not all pears are fresh eating pears.

Thank you for all the input. I guess there's not much else to do until fall:).

Pajaritomt asked"Pears are often grafted onto quince stock. And quinces do look a bit like pears. Do you have any idea how old your tree is and where it might have been purchased?"

Best I can get from the former owners is that it was a big tree when they bought, almost 20 years ago. They have never seen any but the tiny fruit on either of the trees (there are two in the pasture). They were told that they are Bradford Pears. They had some trimming done when the tree got close to powerlines, and no fruit was noticed other than the typical insignificant ornamental pear fruit.
I have been looking at pictures of different kind of quinces, and there are kinds that look exactly like these, and the description of the "ripening" describes what I saw when these appeared before. I'm fascinated by the sidetracks I got sucked into with very old recipes and customs. Truely an "edimacational" tree!

Scottfsmith, thank you, I'll look into the different rootstocks, which may be the clue I need. I do think the big fruit is from the rootstock, tho, as they have never been seen until spring 2006. The trunk of that part is much smaller in both diameter and height, and (appears) younger than the rest, which matches the "sister" tree.
I'll have to pay attention next spring, and see if there's any difference in the flowering, whether it be time, or type.

Thanks again, I'm looking forward to the fall. I won't mind experimenting, especially when it's a little (!) cooler in the kitchen...

Margo

I thought it was an interesting problem, too. I have always cut off those shoots that come up at the bottoms of my pear trees. I will be interested to see what yours turn out to be. Do let us know. BTW, I just planted a quince a couple of years ago and can't wait to get my first quinces. There is a French DG'er, an uber as I recall, who has posted quince recipes on either the recipe or cooking forum. You might search for those. I plan to try some when I have quinces.

Thanks, I'll do that. Do you remember what kind of quince you planted? I'm very curious now, and if they do well here being ignored, well, my kind of tree:)
I'll keep you posted....

Yes, I planted a Pineapple Quince which was developed by Luther Burbank. If you check out Raintree Nursery, they tend to have a lot of quince trees. I am not sure if they still have the one I bought, but they have quite a few.
I am told that at one time every midwestern farm had a quince tree. They are very productive. I don't know many people who have them now though.
But in South America and Europe people eat lots of different forms of quince and for good reason. It is delicious! If you have room for a quince they are easy to grow and several mail order nurseries will ship you one.

Margo, you could be correct that the bigger pears are from the rootstock. Bartlett seedlings are the most common cheap pear rootstock, because Bartlett seeds are available in mass quantity for next to nothing. So your big pear could be a seedling of Bartlett. A Bartlett seedling also may not ripen properly; but, my guess there is you did not pick them at the right time or did not cool them long enough-- you need to pick them when your thumb will sink into the top a bit with pressure.

I still think the chances are greater that the rootstock is the small variety, for several reasons. First there are several big limbs which look like they come right from the ground which are all the small pear. There is no way a grafted variety on top could ever grow multiple limbs from the ground, unless the tree was mistakenly planted with the graft too deep in the soil. Second if it was a Bartlett seedling it would likely have fruits smaller than Bartlett, as few seedlings get to be the size of the parent pear. It is hard to tell the age of a limb by looking at it, the bigger limbs tend to look older due to the coarse bark.

Scott

I'm afraid I'm getting obsessive with this, so anyone who wants to bail, HURRY!! *G*

Scottfsmith, I guess I think the big part of the tree with small fruit is the "intended" tree because it's one of a pair. They seem to have been planted at the same time, they are the same size, but far enough apart that they seem intentional, though that may be wishful thinking. I'd ask the people who owned it before me, but they couldn't even remember what kind of apple tree they had planted three years before. I'm considering writing the "original" family, who seem to have owned the property since before records were kept. Someone might remember.

It's entirely possible that I picked them at the wrong time. I read everything I could find, but don't really remember what I did, or when I did it. It was during the time I was moving in, and that was over a 9 month period. We weren't really "here" until fall, after Halloween. So it could have been any time, I was not sure of anything....can't even remember if the cows were here, or not.

Whatever the outcome, it sounds as if I will have something useable come fall. Which is a great releif, as it gets rally hot in my kitchen when I try to can:)

And I've learned so much :)

Thanks., all.

margo

How far apart is the pair? If its less than 10' or so, then they could all be rootstock sprouts. Sprouts can form from any root by the surface. If its more then 10' then it is probably a different planting and that does make it much more likely that the "intended" tree is the small fruit. Whatever it is, good luck with getting some good use out of the pears.

Scott

I say congratulations, catmad. If you don't like them, I bet the cows will!

scootfsmith wrote;"If its less than 10' or so, then they could all be rootstock sprouts. Sprouts can form from any root by the surface. If its more then 10' then it is probably a different planting"

They're about 40-50 feet apart, as if they were planted so the outer ends of the branches would just about touch when "grown". Which means they might have had an idea how big these would be. Or not, they are the biggest "Bradford Pears" I've seen in the area. I'm hoping for success of some sort, as well. Thanks!

Pajaritomt, thanks to you, as well. So far the cows don't seem impressed with them although as the picture shows, they've kept the foliage trimmed to just above their reach *G*. They seem to be taking an attempted "bite" and then leaving the fruit. We'll see how it goes.
Sigh. I should be relieved not to have to deal with them now, but I'm just so curious.

I would be curious, too. Let's hope you can find a use for them. Since you seem to have lots of room, maybe you could plant an eating pear or a quince somewhere, as well, now that you are curious.

I have an Asian pear that's surviving so far, and several peach varities. I need more pears, but one died, and I was told that the Bartlett's wouldn't do well here. More research needed.

And yes, I'm looking into a Quince, or two, just for fun, and because there are so many thinbgs I want to try.

The "new" trees are NOT in the cow pasture. Please don't feel sorry for the cows, they get all the substandard apples, and because I haven't found a successful organic spray program, there are lots of those....

Should keep me busy, one way or another. Got lots of room, who knows what will be the next obsession :)

Cool. I am all in favor of plant obsessions. Glad you pet your cows ears. Very nice.

Cows ears are wonderful, and soft. Care to try? T says, "here ya go!"

Your cow's ears look wonderful. Wish I could pet them. Yesterday, I was driving around Northern New Mexico and stopped to pet a burro. The cows I saw didn't look interested. The burro was sweet, too.

We were looking into getting a couple of the BLM burros, just for fun. I think they're wonderful! Sadly, the financial situation no longer allows considering that. Maybe in the future. Sigh.
Glad you liked his ears, he'll be pleased :)

BLM burros or mustangs would be great, but they both eat a lot. If I lived in the country I would have one or both. Apparently the burros protect the cattle. I have a friend who raises beef cattle who bought has added burros to the herd to keep away predators. I know people here in New Mexico include them in herds of goats as well.

I'll bet a burro can't hold a candle to the cows as far as eating goes !!. Yup, I've heard burros, donkey, and llamas all make good Guard Critters. That was one of my excuses, although I've got one steer who's very protective, and BIG!...:)

Well, maybe the economy will improve -- or at least your own economy -- and you can have some of these darling critters.