Got a dog!

Well today has been one different sort of day. We went to a Boer goat show in Syracuse and while we were watching it a friend of a friend walked up to us and asked if we were looking for a Great Pyrenees. Of course we said Yes! Seems a friend of his breeds them, had a 4.5 month old male that someone had left a deposit on and never returned for the dog. The friend was going on vacation and wanted to cut back on the chores being left for the care taker. We got Sonny for the whopping sum of $100. by paying for him on the spot. He's a big boy, creamy white in color. Fur is silky to the touch.
He's not trained in anything but behaved very well when introduced (across a fence) to the goats whose manners were not as good. Tonight Sonny is in a small pasture he will be sharing later with the bucklings. Now my does lived with a flock guardian but acted like they'd want to stomp this dog into the ground. The bucklings don't remember what a dog is so they're relatives reaction scared them some. Tomorrow when the does go out to eat I will bring Sonny in to spend some time with the bucklings without the does creating an atmosphere. He and the kids are the same size for now so it's not a bad combination.

There is a chance we'll get some more dogs in a few weeks since someone in Texas has sold their herds and needs to place adult flock guardians. While there is a shortage of flock guardian dogs in my area there appears to be a surplus in the south and west!

MollyD

How wonderful! And what a good deal. The studies they did here showed the GP was the least likely to attack its flock among the LGD. You see them and the Akbash out with the sheep all along Hwy 5.

There is a book you can get on-line about how to work with LGPs. Can't remember the name right now.

So Happy for You!

Thanks Catscan. I think we're off to a good start with Sonny. He barked for a while when the goats went to bed. I think he wanted them to stay and keep him company of sorts. I ignored his barking and so did they. After a few mins he stopped. Now he's gone to sleep near the fence where the he can watch the entrance to the goat shelter. He's got a dog house with straw and a smaller dog kennel to get into if he wants shelter at any time. Anyway I think it's a good thing for him to turn to the goats for company so early in their relationship.

MollyD

Molly hunny, you got you ONE GREAT DOG. That is his job he is putting them to bed. When we got rid of the goats my Gp's went into a great depression, thankfully we had ponies they could turn to. My GP's never let the goats go without them. You will love them, Now there are some things I can tell you I wont here if you want to know D-mail me. You may not want to hear it, dont get me wrong they are great dogs, and either needs to be fixed or get him a female. Or.............

Tia, you naughty girl, you have made my imagination run wild..

GG

Umm, inner-species love again??? Curiosity killed the GP? ; )

That is about the jist of it. My GP "loved" his goats.

Love IS blind, lol ; P

Congratulations Molly!!! I'm so excited for you! What a wonderful price for a young pup too! Everyone will settle down soon and become family, I'm sure. Please keep us posted as you go through the training of Sonny. I'm curious to see how long it takes and how easy/hard it is to train him. I've never been able to chat with someone who is going through the training process at that moment, but would LOVE the details so that I will know what it takes, etc.

Are you able to post some pictures of Sonny? I would love to see him.

Yeah, you might want to get him a GP girlfriend... Hey, you could raise GP puppies and sell them!! You said there's a shortage of guardian dogs in your area!
.....How cool is a littler of GP puppies!! :-D

Keep us posted!!!
:) Glenda

If you don't want puppies (who can not want puppies?) then they recommend you neuter LPG to keep them focused on their flock. In a good way. ;0)

I am soooo jealous. (in a good way) Been wanting one for years, but sure my hubby would be out in the pasture playing with it and bonding when I want it for my goats. He grew up in the old school CONTROL your animal way of thought and is not so far from it yet that I'm ready. Don't think I coud ever refuse a puppy like that though.

Hi grownut--my DH is from the same school. He and my Akbash are on fairly distant terms. You can't really "control" an LPG except to make them grudgingly obey basic commands. They are smart--but very independent. Very loving, but what has that got to do with obeying arbitrary commands that they can't see the sense of? Some one said that their Anatolians would fetch a frisbee maybe twice, then look at them like "why should I bring it back, if you keep throwing it away!"

Mine is the sweetest beast I have--but he doesn't do much without a reason--except defend his buddies.

Yeah, my main worry has been that he won't leave it alone long enough for it to bond with the goats. Or that he'll interfere so much that....

Our cow and horse have been a great education though. "Well, pick it up and make it do then!!" LOL

Hi Glenda,

Day two has been rough for me and the goats. Not so much for Sonny! Took him in to spend time with the kids and he preceded to chase them so I had to scold him and pull him out. His punishment was to go back and be alone again. He did not like that at all!

It's a real tough job to turn them into good guardians cause while they have to obey you they have to bond with the goats first and with you to a much smaller extent. You don't want them to bond with the humans because then they ignore the goats and spend all their time finding ways to escape the goats and reach you. They're champion escape artist too. Lots of people play with them and allow all friends to play with them which ruins them for the job ahead. They have to be socialized just enough that they know people who visit your home but not so much that they'll allow that person to touch the goats when you aren't around. Since the pups are so cute everyone wants to play and cuddle them which is a very bad thing for their training.

Catscan what kind do you have and what is it guarding? I did a crash and burn last night so I didn't get the pictures off the camera yet. Sonny had his first bath ever in his life today. He was not a happy camper but he really needed it!

MollyD

I have an Akbash. He was found by animal control as a puppy wandering in the countryside during our bad fires two years ago. They think he was separated from his flock by the fires. They and GPs are commonly used here for sheep protection. For the first year, everytime he heard sheep bahing on TV he would walk over and stare at it and cock his head back and forth.

Because I am not yet where I can have goats, he has bonded with my dogs--especially the little Boston Terrier. He is extremely attracted to and gentle with small things--little children, toy dogs and small stuffed animals--a big difference from my German Shepherds who are far more predatory and tear all their toys to shreds. I have read that it is possible to get them to protect different animals even after they have bonded with one kind. The drive to protect is so strong.

He has also bonded with me--but not my DH, who tries to order him around. More than once he has growled at him, which is truly terrifying to hear because he has one of those deep almost subsonic growls that means business. However he has never tried to bite anyone--it was more a warning not to try bullying him. The LPG have to be handled with great kindness because they are not submissive and have a great sense of personal dignity--but they are also extremely sweet and loving if you just work with them. Asgard is on the "nothing is free" training program so he has to sit before going out and sit and shake before getting is food--but he is very easy to handle and walking him is a lot easier and less stressful than the others. He really wants to be with you and doesn't pull even when he flushes a rabbit (well not much). But he does give you that "why on earth should I do this? look everytime you ask him to do something he doesn't see the sense of.

He does have a big booming bark which he uses whenever he hears or sees anything strange, especially at night--but he has acclimated to the common sounds of our neighborhood and is pretty good.

Everything I read about GP seems to be true of Akbash as well. They are very similar breeds and probably from the same background. Azzi is now 33 inches at the shoulder and so big, even for an Akbash, but he only weighs 120 lbs. I think they are a bit rangier than GPs.

Have fun--I envy you the goats for your baby!

Catscan I wish Sonny would bond with the goats. He likes them and wants to play with them as though they were other dogs. He scares them when he does this though. He's trying to bond with me which is not a good idea for him.
I wanted an Akbash cause they have a 3000 year history of guarding goats and like cats which someday we want to get some for here. No one seems to have one around here that I've heard of. I get this look when I ask.. you want a what?
It sounds like your dog was being trained by the older dogs on what to do when he was found. My dog has zero training and hadn't been exposed to goats at all. He had been around chickens and cattle but as far as I can tell being around them only meant he had walked near them! I'm trying to be patient with him cause he's just a pup but Paul is putting pressure on me to get him to stop barking (we have neighbors across the road). Next week the new buck comes and if Sonny hasn't learned to be around the kids without chasing I'm going to have big problems here. I already have a housing problem cause Paul hasn't built the new shelter we need in the pen where Sonny is.

MollyD

They do bark!

I think it is pretty normal for young LPDs to try to play with their charges--and goats are especially active so more enticing--of course you are not suppose to let them. I wouldn't worry too much about him bonding with you as long as he doesn't think the house is his home. Asgard is happy outside with the dogs, but wants in only if they come in--and even then not always. A friend had an Akbash/GP cross that was so bonded to her horses that he wouldn't let her near a mare that was having trouble foaling. So him liking you is important for your handling the goats--especially if you have to do something that looks like it might hurt them.

There are some great publications on line as well as a least one book for sale. This link is from a Canadian study, but it also has some references at the end. I hope the link works--it is a PDF. You can find it by going to Livestock Protection 2003. www.agriculture.gov.sk.ca/Default.aspx?DN=5f3648e8-ceed-48ab-adc7-66a2031e0636

Let him do his job, he knows what it is. He is suppost to scare the goats. They have to learn he is the boss. They are scared because they are not use to him.

But LPG are not like herding dogs--they really aren't the boss of the flock--just its protector. They should go to him for protection--if he starts to treat them as if he is the leader they won't be able to graze and move around as they should. He is suppose to go with them, not they with him. Of course it is entirely different with a herding dog--where the dog has to be in charge and the animals better respect him.

Thanks Catscan! I'm going to read that one slowly so I really learn it.

MollyD

If he scares them L2G he isn't of any use to me! A dog that scares the flock is one that will hurt or kill them. A good candidate for a bullet cause he won't be of use to anyone else. That is not what a flock guardian is about. It's like Catscan said. He protects them, he follows where they want to go. He is not suppose to chase them, scare them or boss them around. That is not his job.

MollyD

Here is Sonny's picture,

MollyD

The kids checking him out from safely behind a tree.

Oooh, he is beautiful. (So're the kids)

Seems like he should do really well if he can just get over the excitement of all those new buddies! Or if there's anyone (goat or otherwise) to discipline him when he gets hyper? Has he settled down any yet?

grownut I think it's in his nature to be hyper :-) Today I put him on a rope in with the kids. He barked and barked all morning. Then I got the does back from feeding and put them in (they're on ropes to keep them from beating up the wether) and all afternoon the whole group has been very quiet. Not a sound from dog or goats! I guess he didn't like it when the herd splits up but it's a fact of life here so he'll just have to get use to it. Within their pen there is nothing for them to really graze on so I have to move the does out to graze for a few hours each day. Later on when that area gets fenced in the bucks will be in there so the does will still have to be moved out daily to graze/browse elsewhere. Sonny will be staying with the bucks since they're all kids now and will grow with him. We're planning on a second dog for the does. That one will be responsible for the does and young kids. May need a third dog later for older kids ready to be weaned. Goes on from there!

MollyD

Sounds like you're set up to settle him well anyway. If you feel any envious glare vibes it's me:)

LOL I just wish he'd been closer to 2 months which is the ideal time to introduce a pup to the livestock. We had total silence here all afternoon. It was wonderful! When I went up to feed the goats I found Sunny sitting there staring at the barn door but not barking at all.
I'm waiting for the weather to decide where he's sleeping tonight. If no rain I'm going to put him back on the rope and let him sleep in there with the goats.

MollyD