I want to try to do a full garden, but I don't know how to plot it out. I need to know what to put where and how much space I should give each plant. I want to have it completely filled in when it matures.
I want the largest plants in the back with the plants like creeping thyme, saffron and wild thyme blurring the edge of the lawn.
Here are the plants I want to plant:
Basil Ocimum ?
Black Cumin Nigella sativa
Catnip Nepeta cataria
Chives Allium schoenoprasum
Cilantro Coriandrum sativum spp. Santo
Creeping Thyme Thymus praecox
Dill Anethum graveolens
Echinacea Echinacea purpurea
Garlic Allium sativum
Garlic Chives Allium tuberosum
Ginger Mint Mentha x gracilis
Onions Allium capa
Oregano (Zorba Red) Origanum vulgare subsp. Hirtum spp. Zorba Red
Oregano Origanum vulgare
Peppermint Mentha x piperita
Rosemary Rosmarinus officinalis
Safflower Carthamus tinctorius
Saffron Crocus sativus
Sage Saliva … any/all
Scarlet Pineapple Sage Saliva elegans spp. Scarlet Pineapple
Spearmint Mentha spicata
Tarragon Artemisia dracunculus
Welsh Onion Allium fistulosum
Wild Thyme Thymus serpyllum
I need to know where I should put these and decide which ones I don't have room for. I'll put those in containers.
I have more information on all these plants if you need it.
Plotting a bio-intensive garden?
zhinu,
Let's start with the size, shape, soil condition and sun and wind exposures of your area.
Here's a picture of my basic plotting map. The lenght on this picture is more or less 38' on the sides 39' top and bottom. The soil currently sucks, so I need to do something about that, it's currently very sandy. Full morning sun on the herb garden, left side of map. Though if I want shade plants the thin side area is partial to full shade. Wind is generally moderate, shouldn't be a problem for the plants being up against the house and blocked somewhat by the fences, but the yard does sometimes get heavy winds. No wind breaks in the area (clear cut housing complex) and we get a couple wind storms a year. Plants need to be able to deal with wet soil for extended periods of time, I live in WA, but I'd like to not have to water constantly. I'm willing to do some in containers if that would be better suited.
Be sure to put the mints in containers.
"very sandy" = excellent drainage, which is good news for an herb garden. Add some organic matter (compost, leaf mold, etc), and you should be good to go.
"plants need to be able to deal with wet soil for extended periods"
How wet? Herbs don't need to be bone dry... contrary to what I've read in several places, herbs can *tolerate* more dry conditions that many plants, but they really do appreciate regular watering just like any other plant... however, they cannot handle sitting in soggy soil. They must have good drainage.
Polymer moisture crystals will help extend the period between waterings, and they may help soak up excess water as well, but there's a limit to what they can do if you mean the area sits in a puddle for 3 days after a good rain.
Containing the mints is a good idea. Larger plants like sage, rosemary, catnip, and big pots of mint can be focal point plantings for your herb garden... are you looking for a formal, geometric sort of design?
Wind shouldn't be a big problem for most herbs (unless you get salt spray).
I can't quite make out your diagram... Do you want the herbs on either side of your patio on the left? What is the square thing in the top left bed? What are the dimensions of the actual herb bed areas? If that bed is only a couple of feet deep, are you willing/able to entertain the idea of digging it out a little further, or is there a hard stop like a walkway along the right edge of it? (I assume the left hand edge of the bed is your house.)
I'm stuck with what's there, I rent.
The largest point from wall to grass in the herb beds is 39", smallest is 21", across it's about 29'. I think it's big enough for what I want.
OK, and what's the square thing? (eg, is that a planting area, or not?)
These aren't meaningless questions... I was thinking about playing around with a planting diagram for you...
You didn't answer my question about what you meant about the "wet soil" issue... If drainage is likely to be a problem, you might consider a raised bed or containers (maybe chimney flu liners... in your zone, breakage from freeze/thaw shouldn't be a problem with them) rather than just amending the soil.
Square thing is an entrance to under the house, can have containers, but no dirt.
Shouldn't have standing water, but water will go through the soil for days at a time.
"water will go through the soil for days at a time"
Do you mean rain every day? That sounds like Washington state... With good drainage, you should still be OK. I'd plant anything that's extra fussy about wet feet (like tarragon) up on a little mound.
OK, you can put a big pot of mints on your cellar door, then.
So, you've got 2 approximately rectangular beds... the one with the cellar door in it is about, what, 10 feet long, 29 inches wide? and the other one is maybe 12 feet long, and 21 inches wide?
Sounds about right, a little more complicated then that, but close enough.
I do great landscape plans, but I need dimensions to work with! :-)
I'll make one that has inches on it.
within half a foot works fine... I tend to think in terms of plants that need 6 inch, 12 inch, 18 inch, or 24 inch (or more) spacing...
I think I've got the general idea now. :-)
Let's see... I don't have a diagram yet, but I think I have some general ideas for you to play with...
How about putting plants that reseed readily all on the same side... I think that may simplify your maintenance. In your zone, I'm thinking reseeders may include basil & cilantro -- but annuals like that can also be used to fill in spaces anywhere (perennial plants like sage will get big eventually but won't start out being 2 feet across).
So, in the narrow bed we might have the following plants:
Echinacea -- let's put that at the back corner next to the patio, because it's pretty and you'll want to enjoy the flowers. It's going to pretty much grow into a 2 foot wide clump.
Catnip -- let's put that in the other corner, at the back of the bed... it can get tall and bushy, and you may or may not like the smell as well as your cat does (it's a little skunky, IMO), so you might not want it right next to the patio
Cumin and Dill -- let's put those in 2 foot sections along the back center of the bed. They'll both get tall but are sort of leggy plants, so you'll have a little more space in front of them than in front of the catnip or the echinacea once they fill in.
Garlic Chives (perennial, bulbettes will increase each year & will also reseed like mad), Basil & Cilantro) along whatever space remains at the front edge of the bed. If you decide to do a raised bed, you might consider using half-width cinder blocks as edgers, the kind that have hollow centers that you can fill with potting soil and use like bottomless little pots.
Now for the wider bed...
Looks like you can probably fit 4 pots (at least 14 inches wide is a great size) on that cellar door... use these for your 3 mints, maybe consider adding bee balm or lemon balm or use the 4th for your catnip and put a culinary sage ('Berggarten' is great) on that outer corner instead.
You mentioned garlic... maybe you could use the outer corner of the bed (beyond the cellar door) as a little bed for growing garlic. That would keep it out of the way of everything else.
Between the patio and the cellar door, you've got room for 2 larger perennial herbs along the back... maybe a pineapple sage next to the patio (so you can enjoy the hummingbirds visiting the blooms) and then a rosemary in the middle of the bed.
In front and between the sage and rosemary, I'd put a greek oregano... they can grow to a good 15 inches in diameter, so I would plant it at about midway in the bed (18 inches from the edge).
Various low-growing thymes and maybe also your saffron crocus can go along the front border of this bed.
I think the best bet for your tarragon might be to put it into a pot of its own, maybe on the outer corner of the patio there in front of the pineapple sage. If it's at least a 12 inch pot and you add some moisture crystals, you shouldn't have to be watering it constantly -- maybe every other day in your climate when it doesn't rain?
OK, I know that's not all the plants on your list, but I think it covers most of them.
Given the soil and drainage issues, I'd consider looking into using raised beds. Even raising the level 4 to 6 inches would be really helpful, I think. If you use the sort of cinder blocks I mentioned, with the hollow cores that can be filled with pockets of good quality potting mix, you'll be able to plant a lot of extra goodies... especially since you could probably set those blocks just at the edge of the current bed, slightly extending your planting space by being able to plant in the blocks without actually doing any not-permitted digging. :-)
Thanks for the help.
Does that description do the trick, or do you need me to move some circles around on a diagram and lay it out? (I don't mean that to sound snippy -- some people like verbal descriptions, some people do better when they can "see" it.)
No, I get exactly what you're saying. I may not use your suggestions, but I'll put thought into them.
I think I'm just going to have to come up with a loose plan and mess with it as needed. Some of the suggestions are completely sound, but for one reason or another aren't reasonable for me at this point, others I need to seriously think about and see if I can work them into my picture. I do want to have all the plants in one place or another for instance. I'd like the planting to somewhat slope down, so big in back short in front. That might end up being my plan. Since most of the plants I'll get for free, if I have some issues I won't have a lot invested in them.
I'm just a little OCD so I hate going into things without them being researched and a plan laid out. I deal well with plans changing though.
Big in back, short in front is definitely a good idea... the plants that will get tall and need 2-3 foot centers are echinacea, sage, rosemary, and catnip if it grows like it does in my garden. Dill gets tall, and I think cumin does also, but they are tall and skinny plants. Italian basil will get 2-3 feet tall but can be planted 9 to 12 inches apart. Oregano and French Thyme are mid-sized plants -- think 15 to 18 inch centers for these.
I figured what you mostly needed was an idea of which plants would be your larger ones, which would reseed, which had other special requirements (basil likes water, while saffron bulbs really want to be pretty much on the dry side in summer... so you wouldn't want to plant them in the same border area), etc.
The Rosemary I was going to put in that big corner. I'm a little worried that it's a bit shady for it, but it should be enough to keep it healthy, just not prime conditions.
Sage and Catnip I currently have in containers, though most of my catnip died off this winter :(
The Catnip does spread well. The container I have right now was self seeded from another container. So that is a good choice for a container plant.
The Sage I'd like to get in the ground, I think it would do better there. I've had mine for several years and while it is healthy it's still very small, I'm guessing 6" ball.
I have Garlic under my window right now, and I like the blooms being able to be seen from the living room. Here are some pictures http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/874041/
I was thinking of planting the dill and cumin between or around them.
The saffron I was thinking of putting in front of the cellar cover, so it would be fairly easy to water it less. I have name, scientific name, height, spacing, sun, soil, parts used, hardiness, medicinal uses, and notes on almost all the plants listed. The general Sage I don't because it can vary.
Basil, Cumin, Dill, maybe Cilantro, and Safflower are the annuals in my area according to the info I have.
What size container do you have your sage in? It'll get a lot bigger than that, even in a container... but it needs a big pot (like 5 gallons).
This is long and thin, as I said, it needs to get replanted.