Earthboxes and potting mixI am puzzled (and sad)

Have people ever had failures in Earthboxes? I think I just did!
This is my second year using EBs for veggies (maters, squash, peppers, eggplant.) Last summer everything was gangbusters by now (early July). My tomato plants were between 2 and 3 feet tall. THIS year my veggie seedlings have barely grown at all since I put them in a the first week fo June. The only difference between this summer and last? Last summer I used Faford or Coast of Maine potting mix. This year I took the advice of an Agway employee to use the store brand of potting mix. She said she used it for her EBs and it was a good medium for them. The brand was on sale, so I filled my 12 boxes with it. (I also used the recommended EB replanting kits with new fertilizer and dolomitic lime.)
But something has gone wrong. My veggie plants are not thriving; they are scrawny and sullen (see sad photo below, taken July 7.) The soil also seems too heavy. I'm thinking I will just have to write off my plants. Replanting them all, getting new soil plus buying new ferts and dolomitic lime, is both expensive and laborious--plus I'm not even sure my little plants will do that much this late in the season. I'm bummed.
So. . . . my question is: has anyone else had EB failures? Is it because I used the wrong potting mix?
And if you have success with EBs, which potting mix works best for you?

Hi CapeCod,

So sorry to hear your veggies are failing to thrive. The only EB failure I have experienced was with the Okra I tried this year, for the first time ever. I suspect the failure was due to the cold weather and not the earthboxes though.

Last year I bought a potting mix, this year I made my own by mixing compost, bark dust, and peat moss. So far the plants seem to like the homemade mix just as much as the purchased potting mix.

Some of those store brand potting mixes just aren't the same quality as the name brands, and if you think you noticed that it was a bit on the heavy side that could definitely have caused some problems. No guarantees that was it, but in my opinion it's definitely a suspect.

Thanks, guys. My gut feelings is that the too-heavy Agway potting mix is the culprit. I've contacted the local Agway store that sold me the mix, and they've offered me a refund of the cost of the 9 bags I bought. I appreciate that.
I guess the moral of this story is to go with the potting mixes that are known to be of high quality in an Earthbox. Or make your own mix. And it needs to be light rather than too dense.
--Emily, who is sadder but wiser.

Glad you posted this CapeCod. I've been having unusual results from 7 earthboxes. Last year I planted two with Jimmy Nardello peppers and the results were terrific. I used Pro-MixBX and the fine grained fertilizer which came with the EBs.

This year I planted, over the course of a month and in order: two with Lamberts, two with the potting mix from last year and and three with Pro-Mix. I used straight generic 10-10-10, straight Espoma Organic Garden Tone 4-6-6, straight Espoma 10-10-10 and a combination of the organic and generic fertilizers. Adjusted the amounts to compensate for lower NPK in the organic.

As you might suspect, the first results were not good as I kept adjusting and changing things.One of the bales of Lambert (which is very similiar to Pro-Mix) had been opened and was wet. I thought that might be the problem. All during June all the peppers were pukey. Yellow and small. A few died. I replaced them with new plants. By the end of last month, I had almost given up. But I left them alone and in the last two weeks only the last two EBs are lagging (which is to be expected as the plants were put in late). Everything is close to what it was last year. Just later.

Can't prove it and I very well may be wrong but my hunch is that the coarse fertilizers I used this year (as opposed to the fine grained ones which came with last year's EBs ) did not leach into the potting mix fast enough and my plants were not getting the fertilizer they needed. When the plants were really bad, about three weeks ago, I broke the EB rules and top watered with Miracle Grow....shortly after that is when the yellow went away and flowers came now. Now there is one box full of full size Alma Paprika peppers and some small Nardellos in a few of the other boxes.

Might have just been the weather too. It has been variable. Cool May, then temps over 90, then temps back into the 60s and even the mid 50s at night. Have 60 or so peppers in the dirt and they lagged too until the last two weeks. But not as much as the EB peppers.

So....my conclusion is...I dunno....but maybe you are just a few days or a week or so behind me.

I haven't used EBs but i did have the experience of potting up about 500 plants into 5 g nursery pots.

I used the mix Al Tapla describes as the sticky at the top of the container forum.

These plants have been in the containers about 5 years now - way too long - but 100% are doing fine. these were woody plants but I don't see why the mix would not be great for annual vegetables.

the hard part is that coarse perlite seems to have disappeared this year.

If the soil is "heavy" try mixing perlite in. That might help.

I have always used Jungle Growth container mix and never buy anything that says "potting soil" as it stays to wet to long. Other excellent mixes are Miracle Gro, Sta-Green, Pro Mix, Farfard (hard to find) and a few others. Just make sure that they are of a light consistency. You can test it by placing an amount in your hand and squeezing it. If it compacts DON'T BUY IT! Good quality mix costs about $7.00 for 2 cu ft bag. Anything less stay away from it. Your mix will last at least five years so it is a good deal and all you have to do is add a little more each year to top it off and dolomite lime as that will not burn the roots while the hydrated will if not careful.

Try Pro-mix or Miracle grow. Store brands STINK. My favorite is Pro-mix.

Thank you, everyone, for the soil mix recommendations. I wish I could find Jungle Mix, but Miracle Gro and Fafard potting mix are readily available. I am NEVER going to use heavy/inferior mixes again!!

Tplant, I didn't realize that one could keep using the mix (topping off) for that many years. Do you just dig out the remnants of the fertilizer strip and add more lime to the top four inches (how much?) And are you saying that the lime that the EB kits supply is ''hydrated" and should not be used--and that dolomite lime is preferable? Or is the EB lime the correct kind?

No!No! The EB lime from the EB people is dolomite but you can buy the dolomite at Home Depot in the organic section. Unfortuneately it comes in five pound bags for $3.50 whereas I used to buy 40lbs for $.4.00 but Lowes and HD do not carry it anymore but HD has a mix of dolomite and hydrated and it is NG as it burned my roots. Pure dolomite does not burn. Use two cups every season. Simply scoop out the old fertilizer and replace with two cups of fresh fertilizer. Mix the lime only into the soil and not the fertilizer.
When you remove the old roots from your EB and get ready for the new season you will have to add fresh mix to top it off. Just make sure you get all the old roots and clumps out and when adding the new mix it is advisable to mix it in a bucket with water unless you are finished for the season and if so be certain to completely cover your EB with a large plastic garbage bag till next season. Down here we are always growing something so I keep pretty busy. Hope I 've been of some help but don't hesitate to ask if you have further questions as terrific results have been attained by fellow EB'ers. By the way what formula of fertilizer do you use?

Tplant, I have just been purchasing the standard EarthBox replanting kit, so I don't even know what it is--but I would LOVE to just buy my own pure dolomite, soil, and fertilizer and save a lot of $$. Which brand or mix of fertilizer do you use?

Why do you mix the new EB soil that you are adding with water? (Maybe this is a dumb question.)
BTW, thanks so much for the detailed advice. I appreciate you offer to help, too. Sadly, my tomatoes & peppers that weren't thriving haven't really grown in the time since I first posted on this topic. I've resigned myself to getting few if any veggies this summer. I'm just sort of seeing if anything happens. But next summer, it's going to be different 'cause I'm going to follow the good advice on this thread. Thanks!

Wet the mix because it packs better. I think you may have placed the fertilizer to close to your plants. They have a diagram on their website that explains everything and I have found it to be very helpful.

Thanks, Tplant, for the info on wetting the soil first.

Do you purchase your own fertilizer (or mix it) or do you use the standard EB fertilizer package that comes with the box and replant-kit (which is what I have done) ? If you purchase your own, which brand is it?

I'm convinced that my big mistake this summer was using too heavy a potting mix (Agway), because last year, with Miracle Gro and Fafard my results were outstanding. The only variable between my lush tomatoes of last summer and the pitiful ones this year (pictured in my first post) was the soil. Both years I followed the diagram and instructions exactly.

So--gardening is a learning experience and thank heavens for the good folks on Dave's Garden.

You will have to dump the soil that you now have and use a good container mix like you used last year. Miracle Gro is good along with 10-10-10 fertilizer and dolomite lime. Refer to www.earthbox.com for set up instruction and do not listen to the advice of any store clerks as they don't know anything but what they are told to say and that is to tell the customer what they want to here!

Thanks for this thread. Very informative.

Any updates on your EB garden, CCGardener?

We certainly have had many replies!

Well, it's now a bit more than two months since I posted my first somewhat desperate comment about my veggies failure to thrive in my EBs--which were filled with a cheaper, heavier potting mix.
I feel as if my EBs have done their best to give me SOME harvest. I do have some tomatoes in these boxes (Box Car Willie, Mortgage Lifter, Aunt Ruby's German Green) that have produced a few toms for me--but not many. Some, like Black Krim, just never did a thing. I have two green peppers and a green bean that are still tiny. I don't have a lot of hope for them. Very disappointing, but live and learn.
Moral of this story: buy the best potting mix you can and don't try to economize TOO much, because the EB is a closed system.
I'll try again next season. First, I will empty my boxes and wash them our carefully with a 10% bleach solution. Then fill them with potting mix as Tplant recommends above.

Thank You for the compliments!

My EBs will be starting up again in OCTOBER for my tomato seedlings which are coming along just fine. AlI I have to do with my all my EBs, except for two, I'll add new mix because it is five years old and I've been growing corn which does deplete the soil. The rest of the ones that are active with my pepper plants I will remove the plants for a different variety of peppers and also add eggplants and stringbeans but using the same mix and will have to top them off with fresh Jungle Growth mix as I always lose some mix when removing the roots of previous plants. I'll be taking more pictures especially of the ones that I will completely empty and wash with a Clorox bleach solution of at least 10%. Two cups of dolomite and two cups of 10-10-10 fertilizer will also be added to all EBs prior to planting.

Tplant, you keep adding these ingredients each time you plant an EB, even though the mix may be as old as five years (being topped off as necessary.) Does this mean that the ferts and lime are all used up with each successive crop and one doesn't have to worry about too much accumulation of salts, etc. in the older mix?
As always, thanks for your good advice.

That's right! As long as you scoop out all the old fertilizer which is easy to do with a trowel as the fertilizer was originally placed in a straight 2" line. Right? You need not worry about the lime as long as it was dolomite lime. Use no other lime than Dolometic or you will burn out the roots.

Thank you; that makes sense, and the fact that it works for YOU), the EB King, reassures me that this will work just fine.

It's going to be exciting when we get our own EB thread and thanks for the compliment. My tomato seedlings are just about ready to go outside but the sun will burn them as it is still to strong. Hoping for a cloudy fairly cool day real soon? Setting them out to soon burns the leaves and weakens the plant and this just invites all kinds of problems as the plant weakens and can not resist disease of all types.

We do have our own forum as of this morning. Self-Contained Box Gardens.

Donna

I've been reading the new forum and love it!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/boxgardens/all/
Can this thread be moved there?

Question for now: I've not seen any dolomite here in HD, Lowes, or smaller independent garden stores in two years. The substitute I've bought is hydrated lime, and I see here that may be a mistake. Any ideas about why dolomite is so hard to find?

bookworm...check the label and look for magnesium. State laws vary and I think some supplies just drop the dolomitic rather than cope with them.

This message was edited Oct 11, 2008 12:44 AM

Oh.... that's pretty complicated :) I'll go read the label.

Bottom line.... is hydrated lime damaging to tomato plant roots?

edited to say: not sure how my post got on this way???

This message was edited Sep 27, 2008 9:21 AM

It is normally found in five pound bags at Home Depot on the organic shelf with other five pound products. It may say Magnesium or sulphur on the front of the bag but the back says Dolomitic lime. This is what I use since Lowes discontinued the 40lb sacks for the same price? Just read the back of the bags. Why they just can't say Dolomite is beyond me.

Oh! Just an add on. Cape Cod I noticed only one tomato plant in your EB? You can plant two per EB by planting the tomato plants on the far side and the fertilizer on the opposite side right up against the rim of the EB as far as possible for the plant to reach.

Hi TPlant,

What is the reason for two to a side, rather than one at two opposing corners with fertilizer strip in the middle? Why the fertilizer strip as far away from plants as possible? I use organic fertilizer, by the way.

One plant at each end of the EB, let say the far left corner for one and the far right corner for the other. The fertilizer on the far opposite side against the rim opposite the plants. Two reasons:
1) using chemical fertilizer the roots will be protected from burning.
2) Organic fertilizer, three cups instead of two, will not burn but in both cases will make the root stretch for their food making them stronger.

I have been amazed at the size of my roots at the end of the season when I have to clean out my EBs and have shown pictures to prove the results.

Yours looks like mine, last year I had 3 foot plants loaded with fruit this year was a cold spring and summer and my plants are not doing much. Now it is cold again, I wish I had a green House.

Hi,

The size of the root systems are the reason that I find it hard to see how one could reuse the same soil 3 years in a row. There are just too many roots in there!
I did reuse some, but only after first sifting it to get rid of the old roots.

The most amazing root system was in the corn. The entire water chamber had turned into a MASS of roots. No wonder they needed watering all the time!

I agree, EP. When I've gone to empty my EBs, even after the first year, they are so full of roots the only thing I can do is get rid of the impacted soil.

I didn't realize that I will check to see how many roots I have in the EBs

I learned as well to just chuck out the used soil, it's WAY to compacted to re-use.

Perhaps your problems of compacted soil is that you neglect to water the plants even when they are finished? I clean out my plants and of course roots but always keeping the eb full of water. As I pull the roots the clumps come out just as you see and do require some tapping with a trowel to loosen and dig up some of the stubborn roots. I also hit them with a stream of water to wash the mix back into the EB. I don't wait till the next season to clean out the roots as by then the mix is solid and can not be saved without great effort. The secret is never to let the mix dry out prior to pulling the roots and refill the mix to the top and use new covers for winter storage so come next season your mix will be workable but do not add water during the winter or you may freeze the EB and crack it. It is great if you use new mix each season if you can as I used to but with my climate I find it unnecessary as we rarely have a freeze and if so it is only a few hours and does no or little damage. Besides my EBs are idle for only two months during July and August except for a few peppers. Keep the covers on at all times as the weeds will take over and will destroy the mix.
So how do you do it?

I watered a lot because tomatoes love water. It was also not packed it was very easy to dig in. I really believe that its because it was so cold

Cape cod gardener: I used Jungle Grow in my Grow Boxes which are similar to the Earth Boxes and my okra, cucumbers and tomatoes and peppers seemed to do pretty well in them. I think the key is to keep it light and dense, they say potting mix instead of potting soil; but I think you need the lightest potting mix possible you can find. I don't scrimp on the dirt for my veggies like I do my flowers, it's much too important. You can find Jungle Grow in the huge bags also. I bought 5 Earth Boxes for use in next Summer/Spring's garden and one I had with the potting mix included so I can feel it's consistency to compare with others and get the right match I hope.
joy112854