We are in the midst of completing a partially above ground pond with larger lower portion, about 4'x5'x4' (deep) and upper waterfall pool. I would appreciate some advice on brands of submersible pumps to use. Water will be lifted slightly above upper portion to pour out of a tilted urn or jug into upper pond and over the waterfall. I have info on pump size range, just would like the best brand(s) and would prefer one with an adjustable flow rate. Hope this question hasn't been asked and answered a thousand times before. Now I must go scare off the woodpecker 'dining' on my fascia board!
Advice on Pumps for Pond
What's the total head and the volume of pond water you want to move? By adjustable flow I'm assuming you mean a pump with a diverter or a venturi?
Thanx for the response. A pump that can handle 350-500 GPH is more than adequate. We did a mock run with a pump on hand to make sure it could handle the height etc. I don't want to divert any of the flow, just choke it down if it should prove necessary. Would just like some input on pump reliability since some of the pumps listed in pond magazines have not been highly rated by members. I would rather spend a little more up front to get a reliable pump. Again, any input from members is greatly appreciated.
See if an Eheim has one to meet your specs. I've had a bird bath pool that pumps up through a piece of statuary that spills back down into the pool for five year on the same Eheim (summers only) . It uses a diverter to adjust the flow. Very reliable.
Are you adding fish? or just mainly a water feature? Ponds with fish need a pump that can handle some solids too.
I will add a couple of Koi next year most likely and a pot of Lotus. I am aware of the need for pump to handle some solids. The pump will also be raised about 10-12" above the floor of the deepest (4') chamber. :)
Koi need a large volume of well oxygenated, well filtered water. They can grow to 24" to 36" in body length. Girth is commensurate with length. I have 11 koi, 7 years old to a couple of new aquisitions this year. They range in size from 9" to 24" and still growing. I have them in 2500 gals. I have to use super agressive filtration coupled with very good oxygenation to keep up with the bio load. One of my larger koi is going to a neighbor's new pond after it cycles as a thank you gift for a favor done. I'll be glad to have the load lessend slightly. MerryMary has koi and can also tell you what their water volume and filtration needs are. Koi need swimming space. No getting around it. Keep that in mind.
Thanx Guys: I've attached a picture of the pond in progress. Lower pool is 4'x5'x3' deep and upper is 4'x2'x4' deep. Waterfall height is 3'4" from bottom of pool and 26" wide at front edge (20" where it goes through wall). All told about 675 gallons for both pools. I've read water should be exchanged every 2 hours (~350 GPH pump) but online pond suppliers say once every hour (675 GPH pump). Also read that for waterfalls every lateral inch of waterfall requires 125 GPH of pump (2500-3250 GPH pump. Needless to say, all this conflicting info is very confusing. I want a pump big enough to supply the waterfall but not so big that it disturbs any fish or plants. Help a poor lost newbie!
Two things. First, that's not going to house koi comfortably for very long.
Second - I absolutely love what you are doing. It's fabulous! Just fabulous!
Try some mathematics to determine your pump size. You will need to know the total volume of water (upper and lower combined) and total head. Head is the distance vertical and horizontal from the pump (which should be in the lowest part of the pond) to the output at the highest part - the upper water fall. One foot of vertical distance is equal to one foot of head. Ten feet of horizontal distance is equal to one foot of head. Small pipes and sharp turns elbows also add to the head calculation by increasing friction. Then find a submersible pump that will move that volume of water at that head distance at least once every 1-1/2. That's an optimum turn rate to keep water filtered and oxygenated for fish. One thing you havn't mentioned (unless I missed it) is filtration. Where is it and what kind?
Here are some helpful articles.
http://www.thatpetplace.com/ThatPetGuide/pond_pumps.html
http://www.bestfish.com/pondpump.html
http://watergarden.com/catalog/_pumps/how_to_choose2.php
Somewhere in here there has to be a filter.
I'll pass your compliments on to my son. We designed it together but he has done almost all of the physical work. Total volume is 675 gallons MAX and head is 7' including horizontal run. I don't know what filtration I'll end up with. I've seen pumps that have either 1 of or combos of mechanical, biological and UV systems. Do I need a filter if the pump is raised about a foot from the bottom, I use barkey straw or extract and fish & plants are minimal? Wasn't l fibbing when I said I was a newbie to this topic.
There has to be a filter. Filtration is what takes out fish waste. While it is posible to get a sustainable balance of fish and plants it isn't a sure thing. Plants can use fish waste as food. But you will have times when you will have fish but not have actively growing plants. Raising the pump too high off the bottom isn't the best idea. All the waste and debris should collect there ( remember a "solids" handling pump?) get picked up by the pump, filtered out through the filter where biological activity will convert toxic fish waste (fish excrete ammonia through their gills plus the fish poo) to clean water and mechanical filtration will remove particles that cloud water and other debris. The filter has to be sized up to or larger than the volume and flow rate. What's at the top of the pond? Is it possible to have a filter box where the water collects before it spills over the waterfall? Or you could have a buried pressure filter outside the pond. The water comes from the pump to the filter, goes through the filter and remains under pressure, then exits out the filter and flows up to the the waterfall.
The link is just an example. My small pond (480 gal) has a FishMate pressurized filter with UV. I'm sold on them for effectiveness and ease of use. I have totally different filtration on the big koi pond.
http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/504198/?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=datafeed&utm_term=504198
This message was edited Jul 10, 2008 9:41 PM
Here is an example of a waterfall filter box and how they work.
http://www.pondtechnology.com/pages/waterfallfilters.html
You have a pond store anywhere around you? It might be worth a trip. You can actually see this stuff and size it up for your particular situation and needs.
Snapple is right about smaller ponds with the pressurized filters and UV lights. Always get one larger than you need, you'll thank yourself later! They are easy to clean, do a great job keeping your water clean and the UV lights insure there will be no green water!
I have an overly large filter on my pond, because I have way too many fish for the size pond I have! (I'm not waiting to thank myself later,lol...)
Snapple, I'm JEALOUS of your big fish! I think my one butterfly is getting to somewhere around 24inches....but the other 2 are around 20....all the rest are 16" and under....
:)
MerryMary - one day they're little, the next day they're Jaws. I started out with my first koi in the 480 gal. It was hysterical. I got him as an unexpected Mother's Day gift. By that August my husband joked that soon the fish wouldn't be able to turn around in the pond and he needed larger quarters. My DH thought I would give the fish away. Nay Nay! Several thousand dollars and two sore backs later we had a big pond for the little koi. Tossed out an established 20 x 40 perennial garden to make room for it. When you get the koi bug you get it bad. Right? I think you've been there.
Anywho - small ponds are elegant. They make a different and welcome statement in the landscape. A miniature water lily like Perry's Baby Red and a school of Sarassa comets is a beautiful thing. That kind of arrangement after it cycles and gets established is also hardy and easy to manage. Other than beauty in a small package, an additional advantage to Sarassa comets is that they are not as prolific in reproducing as goldfish. You're not culling every other year.
That's funny you say that.....I have kept my original sarassa and shubunkins (they're probably close to 12inches) just "because"....I was so excited when I first got them for my original little pond!
CT....we'll help you get through this....it's an addiction....
;)
Has anyone had monster goldfish? We had a 50 gal. aquarium, we got some feeder goldfish to season the tank and they grew to be huge. We lost them during a power outage.
Well I can see that I'm in the right kind of 'bad' company! Up 'til now I've just been a plant junkie but I can see where THIS water/fish thing is heading. Have been looking at several different combo filters and am glad to hear you've had good luck with the Fishmate. I don't think we can do the waterfall filter box but can probably install an external buried pressurized filter/UV in ground above upper pool. I assume the external filter doesn't have to be below frost line since I won't be running it in winter. Not wedded to the idea of Koi. Just think they are elegant but had no idea they grew THAT fast! Particularly in Ohio, Snapple45. Again thanx for the info and I might as well confess I've been plotting a larger free-form pond in upper yard for some time now. Also have a 15-20' high stacked boulder retaining wall that is just crying out to become a pondless waterfall. Heck...I may end up being a bad influence on you all!! Take care.
The hundred or so I culled last year had some big ones I think. The largest was around 7". I am now goldfish free. For small fish I'm sticking to Sarassas and Shubunkins. The rapid reproduction rate for goldfish was more than I could handle.
I dread a power outage. My brother lost two saltwater tanks that way. He quit the hobby and sold all his stuff. Besides two ponds, 480 gal and 2500 gal, I've got a 75 gal planted blackwater Tetra tank. One extended outage could really do me some hurt.
What size goldfish are you talking about zhinu?
CT - Yeah, you've got it. The pond addiction. Oh Boy! You will not regret a Fishmate with a UV. I love mine. It does a great job on the water and is the easiest filter I 've had so far to maintain. Size up - For a 480 gal pond I've got a 2000 gal capacity filter. You are correct about winter. You disconnect the filter, clean it and store it for spring. I'm a little north of you, so the winterization up here is usually Thanksgiving week. When night temperatures are going to stay below 40 that is the time to let the fish rest. Stop feeding when the water temps drop to 50. Begin again in the spring when the water temp gets reliably to 50. Invest in a submersible remote pond water thermometer. Also get a deicer. You will need to keep a hole open in the ice all winter so that the gasses in the water can escape and exchange. Otherwise you'll have dead fish in the spring for sure. Deicers come in various kinds. One thing they all seem to have in common is a pretty good failure rate. Keep a backup handy. If I can think of any more ways to bust your wallet I'll let you. Oh yeah - A pond water test kit. Youll need that too.
Way too big for the tank. Mom says the smallest was 6" and the largest was probably around 10". The largest we think was a koi, not that we bought it as such. There were feeder goldfish, fan tails and some others. They were the biggest goldfish I've ever seen.
Snapple45 - what particular pump are you using with your Fish Mate 2000? Is it a solids handling pump? Thanx. BTW, I'm a zone 6 so our winters are pretty mild. Had water in pond all last winter with little or no ice on top. I know I will need some system for fish in winter but maybe not as hard-core as you further northerners. Do you just sink your water plants? I have some clay tiles/pipes that we can cut to any height to handle this.
zhinu....my goldfish are probably close to 12" . I don't offer egg protection, as Snapple reported, they can breed you out of house and home....
The shubunkins and sarrassa's give the appearance of being koi, but won't get to 36 inches, and can take the tempurature extremes better.
The pump I use is a Little Giant ( PES-700 PW 665gph) . It's been in use for four years with no trouble. The FishMate is the 2000. I've had other Little Giants and they are relaible. Twice I made changes to the small pond that necessitated a change in pump size and I've stuck with the Little Giant's. ( For the bigger Koi pond I have used Danner Mag Drives. I absolutely do not reccommend them. Two failed outright. Now I am using a Savio which seems to be a better product so far.) Remember though that sizing the pump to head, GPH and total pond volume is also a matter of the friction caused by pipe constriction ( elbows and turns) and pipe size. The bigger the pipe and the fewer the number of turns or elbows results in less friction and stronger flow. None of the pumps I use has adjustable flow. You would have to add a diverter to slow the flow if you found it too forceful. It's almost an art, really, and not one that I have mastered either.
This message was edited Jul 11, 2008 12:19 PM
MerryMary - we never had babies. I not sure if they were the same gender or if we just had a non-breeding selection of species.
A 12" goldfish! Remarkable. Truly remarkable. Any particular variety, such as an Oranda or the plain comet? I have had an 8" Calico Oranda in a 40 gal tank. Her name was Thelma. I had her about six years than she just sank to the the bottom of the tank, layed around there for a week and died. Absolutely no idea what went wrong, tried everything to no avail. I still miss Thelma staring at me through the aquarium glass. For a fish she had a ton of personality.
Snapple: Good to hear about your luck with the Little Giants and the price isn't bad. I've found the formulae to calculate pump to tubing to elbows to height etc so am good for sizing there. Don't know how close you are to the Hocking Hills area near Logan, south of Lancaster, but check out LilyFest which starts today. They have a web site. Very nice extensive gardens and quite fine vendors from garden art and baskets to plants to jewelry and more. Far more than just daylilies and worth seeing. Always the second week-end in July. Cheers!
I'll try to get a picture of them, they're still out there...
Here's a picture of the fish tank I had the giant fish in http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/877273/