Need advice from the masters

I need some advice from you masters out there. I am CHICKEN ADDICTED!!!! I am planning on selling eggs and currently have about 120 hens to start laying August - September. I am also interested in selling hatching eggs and day old chicks (locally).

Does anyone have ideas, pros and cons on breeding chickens. How do you keep them separated? Do you have separate pens for each breed? What kind of pens? I have built a hoop house and have a regular chicken house. Do I need a house for each breed??? If so does anyone have cheap housing alternatives?

There are breeds that I have that I don't plan on hatching, they are just for eggs do I just let them run together?

I am just looking for ideas for setting up my operation. I am so excited about finally having chickens that lay eggs just not eat.

Thanks-

Sheila

Sheila,

Its all about volume and feed costs. You'd best get it under control .... fixed prices guaranteed so you market. If you don't have a volume egg selling outlet ... you're in trouble. Really this is not the place for professional poultry advice. I'd be willing to bet you're in over your head. Selling 5 dz eggs a day is NOT easy. Kelly

This message was edited Jun 30, 2008 2:53 PM

Sheila, if you are planning on selling hatching eggs and day-olds, you have to have the breeds separated. That is the only way you can be sure you are getting the right breed with both rooster and hens. Otherwise you might have mixed chicks and if someone wants, say RIR eggs, and you have a rooster from another breed, when the eggs they get will be crosses. As for selling eggs, unless you want fertile eggs, you can let the laying hens all run together. You don't need a rooster for them to lay eggs.

Kelly, you would never get 50 dozen eggs from 120 hens. Last time I counted, one dozen equalled 12. That would only give you 10 dozen eggs IF the hens each layed an egg every day.

Sheila, hopefully you have an outlet to sell the eggs either at a farmers market or through other sources.

GG

This message was edited Jun 30, 2008 5:30 PM

Grannygoodie & Sheila,

My math error. 5 dz a day is easy to vend ... with a decent sign in front by your mailbox on the road and adequate/normal number of cars driving by. Wow math was never my favorite. If you have dual purpose hens ... the count might be more like 4 dz a day. Don't sweat it. I used to sell 4 dz a day when is mattered too and I had 60 hens. They slow down or stop in the winter depending on the light in the henhouse or lack of it. Good luck ! Kelly

Kelly, I might forgive you.

Sheila, Like Kelly says, I have a sign out by the road by my mailbox. Right now the demand for eggs is greater than I can fill. I am adding hens to my flock this year, and will be culling some of the old ones, too.

GG

Thank you for your advice. I know that the breeds have to be separated, but do you separate one breed at a time for 30 days or so and then work with the next breed? Or do you have separate pens for each breed. No need for roosters on the selling eggs, just wanted them for hatching eggs. I have 2 fairly large Farmer's Markets near me (40 miles to each) and I think that I could sell at one on Friday and hit the other on Saturday. Also in Missouri with a egg sale certificate you can sell to bakeries and I have 2 already that are very interested.

My main question, since I am thinking that all breeds need to be separated all the time, is do you have any inexpensive ideas for housing/separate pens. I have made one hoop house and have about $60.00 in it but have not used it through the winter in Missouri. Anybody out there with any experience with hoop houses in the winter.

I am thinking that these are fairly inexpensive and easy to build, that they would work, just don't know how the hens would do in the winter. Although I am in this to make a little money I want my girls happy and comfortable.

Also was wanting to know how you all work the hatching eggs, chicks and egg sales together. Is there any method to your madness or do you concentrate on one area only.

Thanks again for all of the input-

Sheila

I am guessing--but I would think if you wanted to do both commercial eggs and hatching eggs, you would want to have the best layers, possibly sex-linked for the commercial sales and then concentrate on one or a few of the rarer (therefore more profitable) heritage breeds for hatching eggs.

Thanks for the advice, Catscan. I have black sexlinks and jersey giants, both of which are supposed to be eggcellent layers, LOL. I have silver laced wyandottes, buff orpingtons, rhode island reds, barred rocks, americaunas, new hampshire reds and a banty assortment.
So I am very diversified. I do not plan on keeping that many different breeds, I just went chicken crazy and also wanted to experience several different breeds before settling on a select few.

Sheila

I did the same thing. Right now I have Orpingtons, Delaware, Jersey Giants and Jersey Giant/Black Australorp crosses, Marans, Barnevelders, Welsummer, Rhode Island Red, Sebright, Silkie, Nankins and mostly one of each. Which do you like best so far?

Sheila, I basically have one of everything, plus or minus a dozen : ) I can tell you that the winters here can be hard on the chickens combs (if they have regular combs), they could get frostbite. Doesn't seem to affect them too much. They get little black spots on their combs that eventually come off. I don't know alot about hoop houses, but my chicken house is just four walls, a roof, and a giant screened window that I cover up in the winter with plastic and duct tape. Predators and the current cost of feed can be a big con to raising chickens. Make sure their pen is built to prevent cats, dogs, coons, and O'possums from getting in. Owls and hawks are a problem for some too. All it takes is that one time you think "Oh they'll be ok, nothing has happened yet" and BAM, something happens by your pen that night/day. This is from experience. You have to be vigilant in their protection. The pros of course are the entertainment and the satisfaction of knowing what goes into your eggs/meat. Selling your own chicks/eggs would probably bring the same feelings and if they pay for themselves good, if you make a small profit great! In the summer I'd advise putting their pens in the shade to prevent overheating, so far it's worked for me. If you're breeding large scale like that I'd imagine cleaning pens is even more important and time consuming so figure for that. Biosecurity would be an issue too if one is raising that many birds, I'd watch who walks onto your property. Anyhoo, I don't raise on that large a scale, but these are things from personal experience and/or things I've picked up from the wonderful ladies on Dave's : ) Good luck!

Patch-

thanks for your response. I had not thought of biosecurity, great point. right now the hoop house is completely covered on top so they have shade all day. Both ends are open for ventilation and breeze. I know that this winter I will have to cover the ends, but am contemplating with what. What kind of plastic do you use. Do you get several years use out of it or is it inexpensive enough to replace each year.

Cleanliness is handled with the hoop house, just pull it to a new spot and whalah clean pen.

Catscan-

I like the orpingtons, but don't know if that is because everyone says they are so docile and I have just been brainwashed. Also think I will like the jersey giants. The breeder i got them from says they are very docile and lay great. But as much as I said that I wouldn't like the banties, Squirt has won over the whole family. I honestly don't know what kind she is, but about three weeks ago when my DH was feeding she flew up and landed on his shoulder and won his heart and a name (the only one besides the roos Frank and Jessie, that have ever recieved names). She was the only one my 4 year old can catch and has now become her playmate. Squirt can slide, swing and ride in a wagon with the best of them now.

Sheila

Awwwwwwww how cute, Good luck. Looks like we have about the same ideas. I will just have to wait and see what I get and how many hens I get.

Sheila, congrat! sound slike you are IN busines...

one point on the frostbite, esp your jerey giant roos, you want to protect them from that, as it will cause them to be sterile until it heals...

i think mor e hoophouses would be the way to go. i want DH to build me an egg mobile on and old gate i have, we will see...

as far as selling hatching eggs you need to separate fo rthirty days PRIOR to testing and doing your own hatch, so you may as well keep a few breeds in their own houses... best fertility rates are Jan-April...

will you have a house insid ethe hoop house? like a henhaven or something solid where they can get warm? also, keep it moving so they don't end up with bare ground... think how close they are to the ground, they need it warm and dry as possible to produce eggs... and you don't want a muddy pen, muddy eggs...

think about your marketing strategy. what will make your eggs better? get a name so you can order cartons... Humane Eggs, Missouri's Best, ??? labeling=free range? free roaming? cage free? all natural?

Squirt sound slike an absolute doll.... ;-)
tf

For the hoop houses, you can insulate them and that will help. Adding a lamp will provide extra heat. You need to keep the water from freezing.

And you need predator protection (since I don;lt know your conditions/circumstances, I can't say WHAT you need to protect from--ask your local county extension agent or neighbors who have been raising poultry for some time.

If you are selling hatching eggs, your reputation is vey important--you can sell cross-breed eggs, but make sure that they are advertised as such. If you advertise a breed, make sure that your breeding stock meets the APA/ABA standards for that breed.

Suze

yes, and i was thinking about your waterers. figure how many chickens per pen, and then a 3 or 5 gallon waterer, heavy duty. and galvanized feeders.

also, what water source will you use? it affects the taste of the egg, which is 65% water...

and consider staggering your chicks, so you always have pullets laying, as they will provide the greatest most reliable abundance of selling eating eggs...

Sheila, in response to what plastic I use to cover the screened window, I just use either trash bags and duct tape or even better the roles of plastic you can get from the store. My trash bags this year lasted all winter, and in spring I pulled them down and threw them away. Obviously with the hoop houses you'll need more than a few trash bags taped up, but the plastic roles should do. My current hen house is not insulated (will be in future), but as long as they are draft free in the winter I think you'll be ok. Of course, the more money you spend on their housing, the better off they'll surely be : )

Oh Tamara... have I said lately.. some days you make my head spin?

I don't recommend hoop houses. They simply blow away. They may sound nice and cheap to have but they are a temporary building for poultry AT BEST. If you must ... choose one with a metal pipe frame. A metal frame can at least be covered by wood and the metal farme acts as a space to provide insulation possibilities when a an inside sheathing (plywood or OSB) is done also to match the eventual exterior sheathing. The plastic covers shred, stretch, warp, tear and disintegrate over a couple years time. A wood structure with metal exterior can be built cheap. Insulation is recommended in cold weather states. A lamp in the winter. Chickens breeds like Wyandottes with the rosecombs or the pea combed Ameraucanas will be less prone to frostbite problems in the winter. Good luck.

Kelly in Moxee

Frans I have straight well water that my chickens and my family drink. My eggs taste terrific! Of course, my well water doesn't smell bad nor taste like rotten eggs. Is that sulfur that does that? I think they say to treat that with vinegar but I could be wrong.

Well water! We have well water. It is simply awful but basically free. Our 1/4 hp pump is not much of an electricity user. Can you believe just 67 ft deep? Water tastes a bit like sulfur and has the smell too. I have siblings in town so any time we're there ..... I toss up to 50 gallons of reusable 1 gal milk carton/water jugs into the SUV. Our well water effects the food taste. My wife (being a connoissuer) refuses to cook with it or mix juices or prepare coffee & tea with it. So every 2 weeks or more we lose 30 minutes refilling the jugs with free city water that is clean and smells a bit like bleach .... definitely not contamminated.

I keep this water going almost 24/7 all year long. The pump is incredible. Today at 95 f degrees we are watering our almost 2 acres of turf grass lawn non-stop. The cost of a new well is not yet a priority as it could be $10k for a minor inconvenience 1-2 times a month.

The poultry don't seem to mind it and the eggs are not effected by the sulfur smell-taste.

We also have well water. We have had people come up here and fill jugs with our water because it tastes heavenly. Our well is only 51ft deep, and comes from an aquafer that is probably a couple thousand feet deep. In fact, Nestle has a bottling plant for water about 30 miles away from us.

So, I consider us lucky for having such good water. It does have iron in it, but no off taste.

GG

I have a hoophouse that until I got the chickens served as my greenhouse. You can not just set one on the ground and expect to move it when ever the need arises. The least bit of wind will carry it off to the next county! Mine is securely attached to post set in the ground.
Also watch how you build them because if you leave too much spacing snow or rain loads will make the plastic sag. Mine is made with cattlepanels so there is no sag and it has been able to withstand heavy snow loads.
Keeping it warm at night is a big problem too. There is nothing to keep the heat in so you will have to provide a heat source for your chickens. Mine has a clear solar pool cover lining it on the inside and I still have to run heat. During the day temperatures will soar especially when the sun shines. They can also go up on overcast days if there is enough daylight thought they won't get over 100 the way they can with the sun shinning.
I don't think it is the best choice for housing chickens in the winter. Mine are in there for the summer but I have no plans to leave them in there over the winter months.

MollyD

Well mine here in windy Illinois, where 40-70 mph winds this spring/summer has been the norm.. has been up for 3 years.. every other year we have always lost the plastics we choose to use. Nope we never did buy the expensive greenhouse plastic.
But before we put the chickens in it.. we put a heavier tarp on the top, just to where the curve starts.. mainly for shade and rain.. then we covered the entire hoophouse & tarp with chicken wire.. the tarp has not move one centimeter.. not one shred.. I only hope it holds up in the winter as well!
Now I guess I should clarify the hoophouse is actually their yard.. we did build a henhouse that is at then end of the hoophouse.

As Molly said, the hoophouse is definitly secured to the ground or we would never find it after one of our wind storms.

That all sounds wonderful. Maybe something I might even try on a small scale some day.

Congrats Sheila, I hope you do really well.

Karen

well, do you reggs taste like rotten eggs? guess you wil find out soon. whatever imbalance is in your soil and or your water, you can expect it to be in your crops you grow and the animals you raise on it.

soemtiesm for fun we drink well water, but mostly it is for the trees and the duck pond, and the horse, of course!

the chickens have always, i mean ALWAYS [i have a feed can of reciepts here] rec'd water we BUY. i figure that into the cost of the chickens/eggs. i also figure the eggs are better and healthier for it, and the chickens look good and will live well and hopefully long.

water is the source of life. so we use PURE DI water. basically the store runs spring drinking water through a magnet to remove particles. so it is like distilled water, just pure H2O. try to go on days wehn it is half price 15 cents a gallon. yes they also get apple cider vinegar ORGANIC, with minced garlic. i could go on and on about their diet...

hey, i took too many science/animal/feeding/nutrition/management/soil classes in college! and besides being TooFunny, i am a confirmed CHICKENHEAD!

Sheila, i am adding a 25 cent per dozen fee when my cartons are not returned. too oftern i give out nice "free ranging" cardboard carotns then get back styrofoam store cartons that are soiled. they go in the trash.

likely with an egg certificate you will not be allowed to reuse cartons. there is a thread "price of eggs" [there are two threads name d that] where MistyMeadows, myself, and others discuss the egg business at lenght, bet you have already read that?

tfCH

Wow.. who'da thunk it... here I try & try to do my best, never thinking the water might effect the taste..

I personally do drink my water, BUT I do have a double reverse osmosis filter on it.. and it is as clear and taste as clean and better in fact than store bought water.. store bought water, I think is very dry.. I often wonder if they put something in it to keep me thirsty. lol

Up until now I have been watering the girls with the straight well water, but I could give them the filtered water, it is not anymore trouble that the other.

With that.. what about other animals.. and hey.. are we taking this a little too far.. only asking because, what the heck do farmers water field cows and such with? Besides streams.. I don't have the luxury of a stream.

We are very lucky with our well, I think it is about 120 ft deep and good water. I will not drink city water. We did live about 30 miles from here 10 yrs ago and the waster was nasty, smelled like rotten eggs. We lived on a cattle farm and that is what the farmer gave his cows. The pasture butted up to the canadian river, could have been that or the well was so old and not very deep.

Just to clarify.. the well water straight from the well, is not the greatest tasting stuff in the world and does have a smell to it..
I don't drink it... well not often.. unless I am really hot, reall sweaty, outside in a garden, gonna fall over.. you know.. then I might ;-)

When you said Canadian River, that caught my eye because it runs through here too. I looked up Norman, Oklahoma, and it is almost in OK City.

So I googled a map for the Canadian River. It seems strange to me that this river runs east to west, or west to east. http://encarta.msn.com/map_701511417/canadian_river.html

It starts near the Colorado line, comes down into Mexico, through the panhandle of Texas, and through Oklahoma. Isn't that peculiar?

Karen

Okay now I am a little concerned about the hoop houses. I have had some pretty strong winds and have never had a problem with them. I built them with a 2x6x14 and 2x4x14 bottom sides and 2x4x8 front and back bottom. then it has 3 cattle panels covered in Chicken wire. It is all my DH and I can do to lift it. But then I can see that it might become a kite in really strong winds. We have had our wyandottes in a uninsulated chicken house for years with no heat and never had a problem withegg laying or harm to the chickens. We have electric water heaters to keep the water from freezing.

I can see the problem with them being on the ground in the hoop house in the winter. The mud and cold ground could pose problems.

Thanks for all of the advice and keep it coming.

Sheila

In my research of chicken tractors and coops, this one is my favorite.

Shelia, i was at Gebo's yesterday looking at Tarpaulins. they have a mesh one that would also work for shade and is supposed to be wind resisitant. bu tthen you would still need an actual tarp over part of it for in the rain...

Karen, the Canadian River used to really be something... maybe it flows both ways becasue they put the dam in and blocked the west to east flow, so the ravine was filled from the other direction?

fran,if it is not any trouble, i would give them the filetered water...

as far as cows, i would be more concerned what they are drinking in the feed lots where they are finished before slaughter, EWWW!

tf