AV names

Ya know what I wanna know……..

I may be wrong but why does the AV world not follow horticultural rules. Like, if you cross Phal. “Dotty Woodson” (Orchid) with Phal. “Zuma Garnet”, you get seedlings that are named Phalanopsis “Arizon Garnet”. Now every seedling from that cross is different, but they’re all named Phal. Arizon Garnet. Now one of those seedlings may be very special, that seedling will still be Phal. Arizon Garnet, but it will have a clone name like Phal. Arizon Garnet “Summer”. If I’m wrong about this can someone tell me what the parents of “Ness’ “Cranberry Swirl” are and why the plant is not named, AV XXXXXXXX “Ness’ Cranberry Swirl”?

I’ll have more crazy questions that maybe no-one cares about over the next few days. Hope ya-all don’t mind.

It is not that we don't care. Keyring (who is very busy) is probably one of the few who can answer your question.
Have you explored the site of the AVSA?
http://www.avsa.org/
There are many groups on line of the best hybridizers but I don't know those sites. Also, if you join the AVSA , you will receive magazines every two months . There is a wealth of information in them.

That's an excellent question, lennoides! I don't really know the why behind it, though. When I first started growing orchids, Keyring gave me a lesson on Genus, Species, Grex, and Cultivar of orchids, but I don't know that I can find it. I didn't understand it when she first told me and won't say that I completely understand it now, but I do have a better grip on the idea. Perhaps Key will pop in and give us her thoughts on the whys and wherefores. ^_^

I'm just so glad the names are the way they are! That is one of the fun things about AV's. Fun and pretty names!

yah, the gesneriad arena is very iffy. Sometimes the name is a grex, and sometimes a cultivar. (It's usually a cultivar, with no grex.) The times it's a grex is when all siblings basically look the same and selfing that hybrid creates offspring that essentially look the same - then the understanding may be that they can all be called the same thing.

One might say the gessie folks are sloppy. Another might say the orchidists had it easy because for the longest time, orchids in cultivation could not be grown from seed. Hence fewer crosses, fewer grexes, fewer hybridizers - easier to make rules.

By the way, the usual punctuation is no quotations around a grex name, and single quotes around a clonal name. Grex names capitalized, species names not.

hey, I'm sorry this post isn't helping clarify things - a bit late in the night to be typing.

Now, does anyone who does AVs know whether First Class provides parentage info? The gesneriad registers try to do that, even if it only manages to say something like "Sinn Red Dots x unnamed mini Sinn. Sibling of Sinn More Dots Too."

Let me see if I can further confuse this issue. :o)

I *think* they do, it's the orchids that don't follow the basic nomenclature rules.

Orchids have a whole different set of rules for their naming. They name the crosses (grexes), and then also assign clonal names to some of the results of those crosses.

For instance: Lycaste Jackpot. Lycaste being the genus and Jackpot being the grex name of (Lycaste Auburn x Lycaste Wyld Court)

From that cross someone got some good results and decided to register them as a clonal name: In PlantFiles we have the clonal names of Chicago Red, Lynn, and California Wine. http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=+Lycaste+Jackpot&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search&searcher[common]=Lycaste%20Jackpot

We are in the process of revamping the orchid portion of the database so that the clonal name can be removed from the cultivar field and put *rightfully* into a clonal field. Hopefully that will be implemented soon.

Basic nomenclature names only the cultivar that arises from a specific cross, and they are almost always hybrids. This is true of every family that I know of except Orchidaceae. I can't think of any others that give a grex name to a specific cross.

I haven't added any more names to the Sinniniga list as the people I talk to on line say that crosses should be able to be listed unlike other kinds of plants.

Keyring, First Class does not give parentage information.

Could you weigh in on DGers not being able to list sinningias which have been crossed? For example, Bonnie sent me seed from 'Mark Twain' x 'Ozark Fireworks' and some other crosses. The plant from the Mark Twain cross is prettier than any sinningia I have ordered from on line vendors.

AS I understand Joan, she says that it can't be put in plant files unless some vendor is selling the hybrid other than the person who made the cross.

Plant names need to be independently validated before we include them in PlantFiles. (We're not here to act as a registrar or validator of new plant introductions.)

That means that every plant in PlantFiles must meet one of the following criteria:

1) A species which has been identified and verified, and documented in reputable books, magazines, journals, etc.

2) If it is a cultivar, it must be registered with the appropriate ISHS/ICRA registry (if there is one) or it must be patented, trademarked, registered or widely available commercially by that name. (A nursery or grower's "pet" name for a plant does not qualify.)

3) If a plant cannot meet either of those criteria, but somehow it has managed to be grown and known as a readily distinguishable plant in its own right and/or it is widely available commercially under its name even if it isn't registered/trademarked/patented, etc. we will consider it for inclusion.

Unnamed seedlings and cultivars are not included because of the mass confusion that would result when two people submit an entry for same cross, each under their own name they've given it.

That's why registries and checklists exist for cultivars, and why we rely on them and won't take any steps that would usurp their authority.

Thanks, Terry...........I will follow rules...............