how it is the Gommers has Tatiana and it is for sale on their website when I have not released her and numerous times I have stated here and other sites that I am not releasing her and she is most certainly not for sale by anyone!!!!!!!
I sent this letter to Gommers last night but have not received a response yet
Hello Mr Gommer
Please be advised that my Brugmansia Tatiana has not been released
and is not to be sold. I would very much like to know how( from whom)
you were able to obtain a cutting of her. She was only sent to a few
U.S. Hybridizers for trailing and a few very close friends that would
not pass her on without my permission.
Please remove Tatiana from your sale web site
Sincerely
Donna Mc Donald-Bailey
This message was edited Jun 6, 2008 9:56 AM
Very Angry and wondering
Hi Donna,
That's terrible. I just googled his website to see what was there. I see the name listed, but there are no pictures or descriptions. Could it be that in the translation from English to Dutch this got confused? Is this a reputable person? If this person is not reputable, could it be that he is "just making up names" as he goes along? I think the name Tatiana is actually a Russian female name. I hope one of these is an explanation so that it's not someone that has pulled something.
This must make you furious! But hopefully he will get right back to you with an explanation. If you need some of us to write a protest email, I'm sure we can get the "gang" together on it.
My girl is going well and I'll take a picture later to post.
Good luck and thanks for all you do to help us all. If we need to help you now, just holler.
Hugs,
Barbara
yes Barb Tatiana is a Russian name. It was named for my Dear Russian Friend Tatiana Anderson owner of TopTropicals.com
The name Tatiana is register via the International Register of Plants via a major Brug organazation and cannot be used for another Brug
Tatiana is listed here also.
http://toptropicals.com/cgi-bin/garden_catalog/cat.cgi?uid=brugmansia_suaveolens
Hey Isint That Your Freind? you Named it after? Paul
yes it is Paul. She is not selling it. She usually just sells brugs by color, no names, less hassles. You can see she is not selling it. Just a Mars Rose and some seed. Most of the pics shown are mine
Okie Dokie
Oh, Donna what beautiful pictures! I had not realized she was a friend of yours and I have viewed her site many times long ago. Yes, with that reigstration I guess Mr. Gommer is really pulling a bad one!
Here's a picture of one of your babies that I'm taking good care of. I put her in front of the lantana to add some color for taking the picture. I was going to put her in the ground, but now I'm not going to take the chance of her not coming back next year so I will repot in larger pot and place her in a nice filtered sun place on my porch and bring her in for the winter. I'm so honored to have her and I would never give cuttings or sell.
Barbara
I am involved with the plant breeders rights danish association and can tell you a bit about where you stand in reg. to the given situation, and I am sorry, but what I can tell you will probably not please you to know ...
Somehow a cutting of this plant has reached Gommer in the Netherlands, but there is nothing to do about it. In the professional world there is nothing to hinder that a given plant is sold, unless you have registred and patented it by the proper authorities.
If you had it patented you would be in a position, where you via your lawyer or the legal system could enforce that Gommer to abstain from selling your plant or you could negotiate a royalty percentage that would be satisfactory for both parties, but if you haven't bought and signed for it as a patent holder the professional world is made in a way such that you have no rights.
I am not sure about ABADS registrations as well, how protected a given name is in the legal court of justice.
Virtually anybody could take your plants name and patent both a new plant and your name on it and juridically get away with it.
ABADS trials will probably not either be sufficient for a plant, if you seek to have it patented. ABADS do a lot of good things, but the plant patent authorities have their own trial facillities, where your plant has to be tested for up to a year, and only if it recieves good recommandations in the trial period you can have it patented.
Of course things might be different in your Country.
At least I hope so. In Europe things about protecting plant breeders rights are pretty much as I write about here. If I intented to patent a real good hybrid that has been tested by ABADS ... lets say .. at Monikas place for a year ... and I told the plant patent officer that they could skip their own testing (which also takles place in a facillity in Germany) thay will just laugh not matter how many times I would try to convince them that Monika is the Brug expert and that also I have grown more brugmansia seedlings that any of their officers.
So, unhappy as your situation is there is only one way to go about it.
People as Gommer are top professional in their line of business and legally they can do as they pleases, so any appeals or threads will bebrushed off as if it was nothing. The only means of control is, if you had the patent, because then your threads would not be empty words of pain and frustration, but you could through the court system inflict him with economical sanctions,penalties etc. and that is something that would force any professional business man to listen and make things go right :)
Tonny
That's really a shame Donna. I hope it gets straightened out. It must be so frustrating. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I can't help but notice there is no picture... I wonder if its your plant or just a plant that someone named Tatiana without registering it??
Im Sorry for you!!
Caren
It's interesting how the love of Brugs, shared with so many, can become such a horrid affair!
Donna, it's a shame something as joyous as having a Brug worth registering has become a headache. I hope this is resolved.
Unfortunately the Golden Rule is "He who has the most, rules". There may be some karmic justice and those who care will know how terrible Gommers has been...and it may all be a ruse....but I would wonder HOW they got it?
This goes on all over the place!!! Very sorry for YOU!!!!
DonnaB, I know Tatiana has been around for several years and you have registered it. Just wondering why you have not released it yet? I understand it is your decision when and if to do so, just wondering, that's all.
kenboy
This is so sad. I was hoping to see some good news this morning, but I guess there is no good news regarding this.. So sad.
It's all about integrity and someone's lack of it.
Ken she is not worthy of being sold when there are others out there just as nice like Dorthea her sister. One year you can root the tiniest little piece of her the next you are lucky if 1 out of 30 pieces roots. One year she is perfect in every way and the next she has God awefull krinkly leaves when there is nothing to be found wrong with her. Shirley tossed hers because she didn't want to risk over wintering it with her others despite being advised by Monica that there were not any kind of mites causing the problems. Many people buy brugs for a investment and want to make their money back but if they can't root it they are out of there money which would not be bad if they paid just a modest fee like to old most common brugs sell for but if I had released her in the beginning there is no telling what she would have sold for with everyone wanting her.
I have stated she can be freely shared by anyone that has her but not sold for these reasons. I am only looking out for all you brug lovers by not releasing her.
Good Points
Tatiana is a good strong grower and blooms reliably. She get very dark pink with the longest curly Q tendrils.
A really great beautiful brug that is a fantastic quick reliable bloomer, one of the hardiest I have and easy to root is JT's Pink Velvet. Mine is only 3' tall right now after freezing back to the ground for winter and has about a 6" Y and a big fat bloom pod ready to open in a few days already. I strongly recommend her to everyone
That's what it's all about Donna! (or supposed to be anyway) That is a shining example of integrity in my eyes! Good for you! It's for the better of the brug, not personal gain!
When I throw out a beautiful seedling.. people think it's terrible.. but I compost them for a reason..
This is also an example of why I'm not thrilled about naming anything.
Donna I'm so proud of you. I do understand standing up for things that are RIGHT. I just hate it when everyone fights over these things. Not to rain on anyones parade but as an older lady who enjoys gardening I don't enjoy all the complaining and whinning all the time. It takes alot of the fun out of gardening.
Until I started sharing my plants with other gardeners I never once kept up with their actual names. They were either irises, daylilies, cannas, brugmansia, and so forth.
Since keeping up with everything gardening has become more like a job than a hobby. I have to mark everything with those little signs that make my flowerbeds look like cemeteries, and so forth. I miss the days of just going out and walking around and enjoying my gardens for the plants and flowers that are in it. I also have to keep records in books, charts, and so forth, and I don't sale anything or do crosses and so forth. This is just to be able to trade and exchange plants with other gardeners on the internet. EVERYONE wants to know what the names are doing the exchanges. I'd like to do business with your friend who sales plants by the colors. Much easier to know that your getting the color you want without all the hassel. She probably also sells them as singles and doubles, Huh?
Like I said, I'm an older woman who just wishes gardening would go back to how things use to be. You shared your passion with your closest friends, you shared your knowledge, plants, seeds, and time and EVERYONE was much happier.
To all you that grow these and hybridize them and other plants. I truely appreciate all your hard work and time you spend (sometimes many years) with your crosses in order to come up with the perfect plant.
My main interest is in color, amount of blooms, growing conditions, and how difficult or easy it is to grow.
We need to find someway to make the ones of us that are just growing them for FUN....to remain just that FUN.
Any and all ideal appreciated.
Donna I appreciate your hard work and hope that they will pull your baby as you have suggested. The profit part is the thing that drives you crazy. Some people just have NO HEART, all they have is the $ sign flashing in their eyes and how something can benefit them, while screwing someone else out of what's rightfully theirs.
Good Luck on this.
Happy Gardening, Marian
Marian,
What a lovely testament to your joy of gardening! Here, Here!
If everyone was like you and Donna it would be a better place in "the garden". I totally understand what you mean about just going out and enjoying the garden ..... I still basically do that but I so respect if someone has given me something named I feel like I have to continue knowing the name. Puts a little stress on us old gals, doesn't it? LOL.
I try to not let is stress me and to try just to enjoy. Matter of fact, I think I'll go for a walk around the yard now since it's starting to cool off a little (man, it's been hot!). I still have some things to plant and I keep walking around the yard to try to make the decisions as to where to plant them.
Enjoy your garden,
Barbara
Donna,
Trying to figure out how to say I am sorry for your anger/frustration. All I can think of is, I am so sorry.
Last year you sent me a few seeds. I finally got around to planting them this year. The plants are doing well and maybe by this fall I will see some color. Thank you so much for your generousity. You are truly a wonderful person.
I am more like Marian, love to garden, love the joy of it, the beauty of it, and the joy of helping others to see the beauty of it. I try to keep track of the names of plants that people give me and don't worry about the rest. But as she said, "To all you that grow these and hybridize them and other plants. I truely appreciate all your hard work and time you spend (sometimes many years) with your crosses in order to come up with the perfect plant."
So, thank you to all who work and share. Gardening and sharing is truly a blessing to the soul.
Marie
I understand how you feel but maybe if you "flood the market" with cuttings for everyone, then they don't have any american buyers to import them back over here. Just an evil thought, but would block their intentions.
Dee
Ohoo ..Donna...well..it's too bad it got into the channel around your wishes... You know he didn't get mine.. too bad for him he didn't get your good ones... LOL .. Loved the new babies I saw today... HA HA ON him... Continued great success there//Dear... Gordon..
Donna, sorry to hear about Tatiana getting into the wrong hands! I've never met or purchased from him so know nothing about Gommer. Really hate that this was done to you.....Lol, thank God for Monika who is a stickler for NOT selling brugs with defects, and J.T., Brenda and a few other trusted Brug growers that I purchase from......love the way they all do business.
Maybe Gommer will pull Tatiana from his website now that he knows it's your brug and not to be released.
Donna B. I know of no other way to talk to you so I'll do it here. First let me say how sorry I am that Gommers is messing around with selling one of your babies. A brug you decided not to offer to people for sale.
Second, Oh my goodness at the photos of your birds and ducks. I spent half the day looking at your photos. Of course I love the brugmansia plants and pictures but I'm a bird nut from the word get go. I spend hours everyday bird watching. I have a couple of ponds here on the farm and we have several pairs of Wood Ducks and Mallards here. They just showed up and stayed. I guess they kind of like it here. I'm also fairly sure that some of them are last years babies. They are probably all one big happy family.
I was thrilled to see all the pictures and know that you are not only a flower person but a nature person also. I have wanted to get our place registered as a bird sanctuary or refuge area for some time. I have 10 bluebird houses that stay full and raise many bluebirds every year. I have painted buntings, owls, cardinals,bluejays, wrens, many different finches, titmouse, blackcap chickadees, mockingbirds, nuthatch, many different woodpeckers, black phoebe, several different kind of doves, robins, roadrunners, sparrows, thrashers, barn swallows, wrens, and who all knows what else? Oh tons of humming birds too.
Anyway I'd love to email you and share a couple of photos of some of my birds and butterflies with you. Before I can do so you will have to Dmail me so I can give you my private email address.
Happy Gardening, Birding, and just loving Mother Nature in her all her glory!
Marian
Donna,let me toss something out for consideration.You sent me Tatiana but mine did not live.Had it lived,Country Garden would have been selling it until you objected.This thread is the first time I have ever seen that it was not to be sold,so I would have unknowingly gone against your wishes.The only thing that would have stopped that would have been a direct communication from you saying not to sell it, or bad leaves or some other plant defect such that I considered it not worth putting it into production.I have no wish to go against any breeders wishes but first I have to know those wishes.
Naming and registering a plant seems a strange thing to do if you don't wish it ever to be sold.Dr Seuss,Isabella and Frosty Pink will live forever because they were placed in production,early on, by businesses like Native Habitat and Logee's.Other good ones have gone extinct because no one produced them for sale(wide distribution). .
Why name and register a plant if it wasn't up to par , I would think after trialing it for 2 years and it didnt do good why not compost it..Save the name for a good one worth keeping and selling..I do love her sister Dorthea she sure is pretty and a keeper for sure
JT you and I have been friends long enough that I would have asked you nicely not to sell it because of her flaws
Elva, Tatiana was registered as soon as she bloomed the first time and not even a year old yet by the former President of another Brugmansia Society. I got the small seedling from her that was crossed by her good friend. She insisted it be registered and even did it for me when I told her I didn't know how. Tatiana was not trailed by anyone before being named and unless I am very mistaken the same goes for Dorthea as Pete got the sister seedling from the same person at the same time I did also.
No rules of registration were followed in my opinion and she is not worthy of being sold for a lot of money and as I can't control how much she sells for I chose not to release her. She is worthy enough to be shared if you don't mind the flaws on occassion. I love her and bad leaves don't bother me on a brug. I grow them for the blooms, scent, and for the night moths
It is so sad to see someone go against the wishes of her to be sold. I do understand keeping her as I don't hybridize and love beautiful brugs to grow for for fun of their beautiful colors scents and what they attract.
Is is not true if you give out cuttings of one not named someone else may named someone else could name and call it theirs? There are all kind of crooks even ones who don't know they are till later but then when ask to stop should so immediately
I am so sorry this is happening to you. And since I don't hybridized I have no right to say what can and can't be done as you who do know so know more than I do.
Thanks for making great flowers.
Blessings
Sandy ^8^
Donna types
>>JT you and I have been friends long enough that I would have asked you nicely not to sell it because of her flaws.
I would never do that.Now,that said,when are you coming this way again?Don't dare sneak by without giving Ann and I a call.We can check out some of the new restaurants.
JT whats Milton Like? Paul
Donna I hope that Gommers does as you ask...I love the name Tatiana .
Elva
JT I will certainly give you & Ann a call if I get by that way. Am planning on the Oct Florala RU if Pam decides to set one up. Already told DH that it is my turn. I have to have someone here to tend to the ducks and now just got 2 big Toulouse geese.
Elva at least he is selling it cheap which makes me feel a little better if he doesn't remove her.
Oct FL RU? What's the scoop on that?
Pam e-mailed me about it when I couldn't go in spring. Nothing definate yet but is suppposed to be in the works Barb. Date is officially also going to change to fall since most people are so busy with spring chores
I'll keep my ears open for info.
Thanks!
Paul,Milton is a quiet little town that survives on NAS Whiting field which is just to the north.When they eventually close that base Milton will die and become just a bedroom community for Pensacola.The big pluses here are the nearby beaches,national forests and the one of the cleanest rivers,the Blackwater,in the US.Excellent canoeing,hiking,fishing and hunting.I still enjoy all of those except hunting.Just too lazy to go tramping around the woods before daylight looking for something I don't want to eat anyway.They sell good steaks at Winn-Dixie.The picture is nearby Juniper Creek,one of the nicer spots on this earth.
This message was edited Jun 15, 2008 4:37 PM
Nice looking creek, JT. It has such a peaceful look to it. Is it near where you live My DH wanted live water when we moved to the country. It took a while but we found property adjacent to the Colorado River. A seasonal creek runs through the ranch, but it's either a raging torrent, a bunch of smallish seeps or dry rut in the ground, as it is currently. We're in the middle of another drought.
Wonderful pic, so peaceful looking & quiet.