Old hay vs new straw...

Hi all,
Last year I used hay bales to plant in with pretty good success. This year, the hay had to go to the cows, and I figured straw (since that was the original "medium"). The hay came from Home Depot, if that matters.
The question is this. I planted some tomatoes in the new straw bales, after they'd cooled, and were brown and slimy inside. These were locally grown, two fourpacks of three varieties. I planted two of each variety per bale, with significant compost added to help them "start". A month later, here they are...

You'll notice I said I planted two (out of a 4-pack) in each new straw bale, and that left two more. Not wanting to take up the "good" space with redundant plants (I had great plans for tomato varieties), what was I to do with these poor orphans? Well, I had three hay bales from last year that i never got around to planting (long story) anything in. So, without much care, I popped the other six in there. One bale was prettdecomposed, so I filled much of it with the same compost as in the straw bales. The other plants got absolutely nothing added. Just stuck in that dry, crumbly old hay.
Of course, you all know what happened. For fairness, I took this picture of the same variety (Pink Ponderosa) that I showed in the Straw bale. It is also the same white bag that I had behind the straw bale plant.

Now the rest of the story. I'm not sure if the bales are the problem, or that the old hay bales are just so much better. The straw plants _have_grown, but not as much as the others (obviously). It hasn't been very warm yet, but the beans and squash direct planted into the same "shipment" of straw have grown, but not as fast as I expected. I'm thinking that I actually started later last year, and will try to figure that out in case that's a big factor. Last year was my first year, so I don't have much of a "history" to relate.
Any ideas? The straw bales are growing "grass" and mushrooms, but could they still have been treated??
Sigh. I'm hoping things will catch up, but any/all input is welcome. At least I'll have _some_ tomatoes this year......
margo

Margo: I suspect it has a lot to do with the weather, ie, cool nights we've had in May. The new straw probably didn't hold the heat as well as the older hay and the roots in the straw were more susceptible to being affected by the cooler temps.

If you fed and watered the plants the same, then the weather is what I'd say is/was the problem.

Things should turn around.

Some of my tomatoes started out great, then went south. Mostly the Better Boys.

Many of my "dirt farming" friends had the same problems.

Things seemed to have gotten better.

Well, that's a comforting thought! Okay, I'll accept that, and try to be patient a little longer....

Thanks, Kent!

Although I don't have a lot of empirical evidence yet, what I do have so far suggests that the hay is a better growing medium (and the mulch grade hay I used is half the price of the straw!).

Suz

Margo, my opinion:

I think the nitrogen in the hay is at it's prime now after sitting for a year.

I have not tried hay. But vow to next year without fail.

There's my 2 cents worth.

Jeanette

Jnette, I think you're right. The tomatoes in there are waaaay beyong the ones in straw. I have straw bales that are unplanted, and I'll keep "prepping" them, for my fall crop. We'll see. I have a couple more decomposed hay bales, they're pretty flat, but should be enough for some cukes, and maybe a few more beans.....

margo: everyone who has ever used hay/grass bales have always said their plants did great.

I'm definitely going to try to score some hay next year.

I'm still looking for some old saw dust to try, too.

Sigh. I would have gone for hay again, but then the cows would have been hungry. Hungry Cows+HayBale Garden=Happy Cows+No Garden.If we ever get to the point where I can find (and afford) hay again, that will be my choice. For now, I have straw "seasoning" now for a fall crop, and will set up next springs' straw this fall. Sigh. Patient I'm not :)

Don't despair Cat, how would you like those UNhappy cows knocking on your door? Next season will be different.

Jeanette

No despair, Jnette :) Yup, the cows get first choice, if they go looking for food, we're in biiiig trouble. They're BIG. I'd never really thought of cows as big, but the boys sure are. They get what they want.....

Yes they are. Especially when they show up in your yard and they belong to someone else. That is what happened to me last year. All of a sudden I had a herd of them in my front yard. I yelled for my 'CITY BOY" house mate and told him to get them out of here. (I walk with a cane so I was afraid I might fall down by them or I would have done it). But, you should have seen the look on his face when I told him to do it. LOL

Like, ME??? DO WHAT???

The funny part is that when I told him how to get them out of here and he did, they followed him right back and he didn't know it until I told him to turn around. One was right on his heels.

Then he got serious. He got his pistol and fired several in the air and that got rid of them.

I called 911 and told her I wanted them out of here. Went thru the whole thing with them about it being open range area etc. Finally, gave her the color of the ear tag so she called the owner and them came out and got them.

The thing is, it was so dry that they ran out of food up high where they were feeding on the federal land so they were moving down. Right into my yard.

Jeanette

Open range means they can go wherever they want? I don't think I'd be fond of that, garden wise. I've had horses come to visit, but that's about it, as far as domextic farm animals go. I do wonder what would happen if the neighbors cows (they have a big operation close to the edge of my property) decided to visit. I have been tempted to "calfnap" a couple of their really cute babies, they're a light brown, almost champagne colored. I don't think they'd miss a couple....
As if I don't have too many mouths to feed already....:)

Yes, that is what open range means. It means if I don't want them in my yard I have to fence them out. Not the owner has to fence them in. I was told that the owner of the cows have to carry insurance in case a car hits them. But I have also been told that if a car hits them the driver has to pay for the cow. Who knows.

Unfortunately those cute little calves get to be great big cows with great big appetites.

Jeanette

Grin. When I was young I had a friend who wanted an elephant. I know, I know, but she did. Her mother told her even a baby would get way too big and fall thru the floor. Her answer? "If I don;t feed it, it won't grow, and I'll be sure no-one else feed it, either". Sigh. Don't suppose that'd work any better for me, now.....

Nope, I'd best stick to chickens....:)

Even tho no matter what you feed the chow is going to be expensive. But at least with chickens you not only get the meat but the eggs too. 'course, that is true with the big animals too. You get milk plus meat.

I understand that feeding the cows is pretty expensive. Even if you got horses to ride to town so you didn't have to buy gas the hay costs as much. Oh well.

Jeanette

Would that that were true for me *G*. No meat here, they're all family members. The two potential milk cows are quite shy, and we're slowly getting to be able to touch them for more then 2 seconds. The "boys", who should be working the fields, simply laugh at the idea....
The chickens will be free ranged, and I doubt they'll need supplemental feeding most of the year, as they'll clean up after the cows, and get the kitchen and garden scraps. I had chickens before, and they pretty much ignored the processed foods. Smart chickens:)

The milk cows don't let you touch them??? What kind of milk cows are they? Kind of hard to milk long distance isn't it? How long have you had them?

I know you said "potential" cat, I just got a kick out of it and wanted to have some fun. Please don't get mad. I was being facetious. LOL

Jeanette

. That's okay, it really shows how big the "SUCKER" tattooed on my forehead is :). These are all "rescues". It was supposed to be just (just??) 5 steers, that had been handraised by a friend. She said she'd transport all my animals (a huge challenge) if I'd take her poor little orphaned cows. Well, one (Hershey) wouldn't get in the truck the first time around, so I figured that was that, and 4 cows seemed doable. No-one in their right mind would make a second trip from S Flodiad to Upstae SC (practica;ly NC) for ONE cow. So they asked of I might (pleasepleaseplease) take the Momma Cow and her little baby who would otherwise be sold to Horrible People and surely die...... Okay, that made 7. One morning in April, there were 8. So now there are 5 Oxen, one cow, one heifer, and one "baby" bull....
Pets. All pets. Pets you can't pet, or don't dare. The boys are mostly friendly, but because they were hand-raised, they don't have any concept of how big they are, and want to play. Joe was caught by his favorite in a corner, and it was touch and go for him to get away. T just wanted to play as he had when he was tiny. He's probably close to 2000 lbs, now....

Cat did you say "CRAZY"? Maybe both "CRAZY SUCKER"? Did you say "friend"?

You better do something. At what point do you say this isn't working?

Jeanette

Well, they're really fine if you work carefully, which should be the case with any large animal. It wasn't really an issue at the time, because I was finacially sound, and hay was cheap. Now both those have changed.
And yes, friend. If they hadn't moved the rescue for me, I'd have had to spend much more than the cows have cost me so far. It was a fair trade, at the time. Plus, my SO really wanted cows, so that saved another 500-1200 dollars per cow. Unfortunately, the only people who want them now, want meat, and I'm not that desperate, yet. The time may come.

Ya know, there have been lots of times in my life when I should have thrown in the towel on things, but it all worked out, in the end. Maybe this will, too.

BTW, back on topic, the Strawbale tomatoes are still WAY behind the Haybale ones. Even those I put into the ground (much later) are doing better than the Straw plants. Sigh.

Really!! Next year I am going to try hay. Did you use Alfalfa? I think that is what I am going to try to find. Since you know about hay, don't you think the first cutting should be cheaper than later on? Seems that is when the cows are being range fed. BUT, that is probably when the feed lots start stocking up too. Ouch. Can't win for losing.

You have what I would call a dilemma on your hands. Those babies have big appetites.

Jeanette

Catmad-

I concur- the hay bales are WAY ahead of the strawbales in my garden. And, in an effort to gain empirical data, I planted equally in both. The plants in hay are generally at least twice the size of those in the straw. The strawbales retain their shape and firmness while the haybales tend to collapse, but I think their innate nitrogen content helps to fertilize and nurture the plants . . . and the hay seems to retain moisture better than the straw.

Suz

Suz, I can understand that. The moisture retention bit. Also, that they have more feed for the plants.

Jeanette

Not alfalfa, waaay too expensive. I think these were "orchard" hay, whatever that is. Cows (unlike horses) aren't too picky about hay, so I buy what's cheap. Alfalfa seems like overkill, when it's just decomposing!
And the old hay has faaaar outstripped the straw, I'll have a ripe tomatom today or tomorrow, if I'm quick enough:))

Ok, I will have to think about that hay. Do some checking with the local farmers maybe. You are awful telling us about those ripe tomatoes. Sounds soooooooo good.

Jeanette

Bump