How do get started?

Hello everybody, I am new to the idea of homesteading and wonder, how to finance this. Right now, I have a good job which pays for everything. But if I sell my house and find a small piece of land to live on, I assume that I soon would run out of money paying for this kind of life, taxes etc. How do you do it? Do you have a job on the site?

Thanks,
Wannabeone

I think an income of some sort is needed to get established as there will always be property taxes and other expenses. What level of lifestyle do you hope to sustain? I am curious what homesteading means to you? What do you want to do with your piece of land?

Hello,

Thanks for your respond.

I think I would want to feed my family and sell fruit and veggies to others. Not sure about livestock. I don't think I could kill animals at this point. I would like to generate my own electricity to a point that I still could have a computer and a coffee machine. I wonder how big my proberty would need to be to feed a family of five.

Thanks.
Wannabeone

I am interested in different facets of being independent. However, I realize I have to still work to attain those goals. That is why I asked what homesteading meant to you...

For example, to establish an orchard would take some years before you could sell produce. To purchase an established one would take some dollars. In the interim, life still has to go on.

Perhaps you could start small where you live with a garden plot, planting a few dwarf varieties of fruit trees and get some groundwork on whether that is where you want to go. If allowed where you live, get a few chickens for eggs to eat and sell. All the while you are still maintaining your current lifestyle. That would gain some experience. Just a thought.

We all come at homesteading from different directions. What works for one of us, may not for another. I have enjoyed this magazine for years. You can read some articles online and may want to subscribe to keep for future reference. It is written by and for people just like us.
http://www.countrysidemag.com/

This message was edited May 26, 2008 7:56 AM

Thank you for this link! I will do some reading and try to learn more. In the long run, I would like to move more north and buy an established property. For now, I will use my current lot, which is small, only 1/2 an acre. I am really in the beginning of the process. I started this year with tomatoes, cucumbers, beans, blueberry bushes, blackberry bushes and rasberry bushes. Everything died except 3 bean plants. Yeah! I ended up going to home depot buying 6 tomato plants. They are still alive and growing. I also have strawberry plants from last year, which are really growing this year!
If everybody is still working to get in an income, how much do people usually work? I work 40 hours a week and have 3 children, 2, 5 and 8. How realistic does it seem for me to get there? I think for the next 10 years I will do lots of learning and expand every year trying to get my kids involved. Reading through the posts certainly gives me some good ideas, such as the dwarf apple trees etc. I will try those.
Thank you !

Wannabeone

I think getting your children involved is an excellent start. As you are finding, gardening is hit and miss, even for the experienced. I grew up on a farm. That was more evident there. We planted a wide range of crops as there was expected to be a crop failure and the thought was to prepare for the worst. Anything that happens will be better then.

The dollar amount required simply depends upon the standard of living you want to maintain. With three young children, healthcare would be a primary consideration for me. We have also found that as we age it is also a necessity.

In your climate another consideration will be a heat source of some sort. Firewood works well but is work as well. You either need to have a chainsaw and the ability to run it. That takes fuel and maintenance costs. A larger produce operation could utililize a tractor or tiller, again, maintenance costs. If you opt for livestock, again, feeds and medications as well as winter housing.

I certainly don't intend to discourage you. But the answer is yes, we have always worked full time outside the home. Dh established a business and I worked to pay our living costs for the first five years. Then, I went to work with him and we are still there. Some homesteaders are fortunate enough to work from home ~ i.e. computer based, skills, crafts sales, etc. OTOH, if that is your goal, it will take alot of self discipline. Home schooling also takes self discipline and determination.

I guess I would say, keep your goals lofty and be proud of the little achievements. But look before you leap. Moving to a rural area is commendable to raise children. Make sure there is employment income there for you before you do so.

Read all you can find. Even the library should be a good source of reference materials. Something else I have done over the years is develop a good reference library. I can't know everything but I can know where to find the info.

Some types of books to look for are cookbooks, medicinals, livestock, gardening, herbals, hobbies and crafts. Also, if you garage sale, look to purchase canning jars and equipment, garden and farming tools, livestock equipment. I am amazed at the things others don't want that will be sold cheaply.

Another source for items that will help the homesteader is Lehmans. You will notice their prices are a bit high (their quality is first rate) and their catalogue will give you groundwork in some of the things you want to acquire. For example, we are remote and lose our power fairly often so we have kerosene lamps. It took some time to afford them but the best you can have is Aladdin lamps. Worth the money but if you know that, you can shop the garage sales for one at a better price. If it needs parts like mantle, wick or chimney, you know you can find one at Lehmans. http://www.lehmans.com/

Just a few thoughts ~ not meant to be discouraging. Best wishes, pod

In terms of lot size, small is in the eye of the beholder......1/2 acre would be considered a huge lot in this area!

You might find the Path to Freedom website inspiring. The Dervaes Family are homesteading their 1/5 acre urban lot.
http://www.pathtofreedom.com/about/urbanhomestead.shtml


Check out their harvest stats here:
http://www.pathtofreedom.com/urbanhomestead/ataglance.shtml

G_M, how true about size! I am amazed at what the Dervaes have accomplished on so little a piece of property!

Wannabeone, I agree with everything Podster said. A lot of thought and planning has to go into whatever your idea/dream is. A job is an absolute must, at least in the beginning, until you can get whatever income producing business you want to do bringing in money. Even going so far as living off the land and off the grid, you will still need to buy all the supplies needed to get set up, plus clothes, non-food items, tools, etc.

There are all kinds of things you can do now working toward your dream. Read everything you can that is related, and get gardening. If you can't have chickens, maybe rabbits? And get as much debt paid off, as you can, so that when you do get out in the country, you'll just have the basic expences to pay.

Good luck!

A source of income will be needed to pay the taxes. No matter how off-grid and self-sufficient everything else is, the gov't will still want some funds from you. So be sure to plan for that too.

The Dervaes have done an amazing job. I have to wonder how they got the city to let them keep livestock on their lot though. Most cities are not too keen on that. Maybe having two sides of their property bordering a private school (rather than other homes) helped. The last place we lived was a true rural agricultural district and they still required 10 acres to keep even poultry, which was downright stupid. Our 4 acre lot was technically too small to keep a backyard flock of chickens. We did it anyway and no one complained, at least not until we got the sheep....

Some cities will allow smaller farm animals if they are considered pets.
Quite a few people have chickens as pets. They sit on their laps and do tricks for Cheerios etc. A few of our local rescue groups will post "house chickens" for adoption.
The key is whether they create any noise or odour problems for the neighbors.

Pot bellied pigs were a popular pet for awhile. We used to see folks walking their little pigs on a harness and leash. I noticed that the Dervaes take their goats for walks on leash.

Weren't their goats a smaller breed, too? Our goats were larger, but never made any noise. With all the vegetatation in their yard and keeping it so neat, the neighbors might not have even known they had them by either noise or smell.

When I lived in Omaha, I checked with the city about chickens. Hens were okay, roosters weren't allowed.

Regarding 4 acres being to small, there's places near us now out in the country less than an acre keeping a horse or two. Can't believe you couldn't keep a few sheep. You had plenty of room and they aren't that loud, are they?

Wannabeone,

I can really see the sense in what other folks are saying, and I hope you are still hanging in there and learning with the rest of us. I would love to have a half-acre in the suburbs. Right now we grow a few vegetables, tend a pair of apple trees and a bunch of raspberry canes, and pray for our ailing, old cherry tree.

One thing that I have found which is a little more subtle, is learning new attitudes. There are habits that we all have, things which make life more convenient or comfortable, but they cost money. Things like ordering out for pizza when you don't feel like cooking. And who would, after a full day of work?! Things like going to the mall when your home AC isn't doing the trick for you and you're bored. Things like popping out to the store for some ice cream and a DVD, or your kids assuming that they are going to come out of the gift shop with something in their hands when you are traveling. Of course, none of it is big money. But a lot of little moneys here and there do eventually equal big money.

My husband and I have deliberately steered our family away from those kinds of habits, but even so... we still have things that we do that some might call frivolous. And it is harder with kids, because they don't want to be different from their friends.

But changing some of those attitudes about entertainment and convenience means saving money, and as msrobin said, leaving your suburb with as little debt as possible is crucial.

We recently started volunteering at 2 different places near here that give away food, clothes, toiletries, household goods, etc. In return, we are welcome to help ourselves to what we need as well. This has been huge for our family of six, and none of my kids, aged 10 - 19, ever whine to go to the mall or the game arcade or for the latest and greatest. They know that I am going to bring home an odd mix of Legos in a bag, or an old book with an intriguing title, or some blue shimmery stuff that will make the greatest princess gown ever seen. It is far more exciting than going shopping at the mall, because you never know what you will find.

I realize this is not an option for everyone, but if you can get plugged in to a similar effort on a regular basis, it can be very helpful. I also love chatting with the other clients who come in. It makes me realize that being poor isn't so bad at all. None of my family is chronically ill, alcoholic or just out of jail. The stories I hear break my heart sometimes.

We can all do something to get outside ourselves and get a little closer to the edge of our existence. Just keep trying.

Welcome to DG, Joan!

And very well said!

What a great perspective you have shared! I hope you continue to post as we can all learn from you, thank you... pod

Wannabe,

You've gotten a lot of good advice here, not sure that I can add to much more to the stockpile. As a couple who just made this lifestyle change, I can give you a teeny bit of advice from my short-term experiences so far:

Learn budgeting. I make up all kinds of budgets, but I am bad at sticking to them. Learn to stick to them BEFORE you go :)

Have work before you move. I work from home and have for a couple of years. It requires extreme self-discipline, especially in the spring when you KNOW you can be out there doing things. Have a back-up plan too, in today's economy. I've already researched alternative jobs that can be worked from home, in case something happens to mine. DH will be starting from scratch, but we've already estimated that we can live off of my income, if, big if, we are very frugal. This is where budgeting comes in, and the discipline to stick to that budget. If you're working from home, most likely you will need DSL or cable internet access, and a phone line. Remember to include these costs, realistical costs, into your budget.

Have a worst-case scenario plan thought out before hand. Like here, where we are: we have a spring. If we both had no work, and had to give up everything like DSL, electricity, city water and the car (like I said, worse case), we could live here without those things. It would be mighty slim pickins, but it could be done. I'd probably be a lot less 'fluffy'...LOL! But this land has a large garden, tons of berry bushes, free flowing water, and several burn pits and 12 acres of forest. We could have hot water, cold water, and I probably have enough candles to take us through a year of no electricity if we were frugal with the candle usage. I save my seeds, so the bare basics of the garden I wouldn't have to buy (hopefully you really like squash!) I try to keep garden staple seeds saved up when I can, so I could grow a small variety of foodstuffs with no costs other than hauling the water up to get them started.

Water, water, water: can't say how important that is. Where we are there is a spring and a river across the street. You can do without a lot of things, but not water. I am only now really beginning to appreciate this fact :)

If you're going to quit your job, you might want a large chunk of savings that will be untouched except for use to pay for medical costs. Become familiar with herbal medicine and grow some of your own staples. As my DH says "think before you act" - thinking ahead can prevent a lot of unneeded accidents. Since I live here by myself most of the time, I really have to take that to heart. If I get too far away from the house (no cell phone coverage here) and get, say snakebit, I might not could get back to call someone without harming myself more. I normally wear a bandana when I work outside just for that back of the mind thought - at least I could tourniquet off the area while I got back to the house. We plan on having walkie-talkies when he gets here full time, just to if something happens to him on the far side of the property, he can at least notify me that way.

Other than the fridge, stove and computer, I try to utilize as little electricity as possible, and I'm learning to do laundry by hand and line dry. We plan to learn to cook over an open fire (other than hot dogs and hamburgers) so that we'll have that experience as well. I'd like to know how to do these things before they become necessary - otherwise the stress might be too much...haha!
If I'm used to it, it reduces our monthly costs and prepares me for the worst case scenario above, so it won't be so mind-numbing if it occurs.

Lest you think I'm a pessimist, I am totally the opposite - in fact, sometimes I'm unrealistically optimistic :) I do think tough times are ahead, just not sure how tough or who all will be affected. I'd rather be prepared and know I could handle the challenges without too much whining, than wait and find out when it's already here.

Best wishes to you, and let us know how things develop!

Wow Hineni,

You are so right when you say water is everything. Back in the 80s Cindy Lauper sang "Money Changes Everything" but here in the arid southwest, it is truly about water. I recently found out that rain barrels are illegal in my city. Apparently the rain that falls on my roof actually belongs to the next town south, and I can only keep what falls on my plants.

Funny thing is, I have to pay a fee to have that runoff water dealt with.

Gene Logsden has written a few books about homesteading. His main premise is that most people find it very difficult to go into some sort of production for the sake of an income, ie selling eggs or cut flowers or honey, etc. He says it is better to just grow what your own household needs and thereby reducing your need for a large income.

This is true to a point, but as someone said earlier, taxes are inevitable. You gotta have some kind of income.

What are most folks doing in this area? My husband has a home based business that he could do almost anywhere, but times are slow and I have been looking for part time work. I have thought about making quilts and selling them online. I have been quilting for a long time and I have one almost ready for this. Has anyone tried something like this, homemade whatever on ebay or the like?

Hineni ~ I would not consider you a pessimist. Over the years I have found great satisfaction in being able to do without! Just don't forget the matches LOL.

And I agree totally with you ~ water is the primary concern when you get down to basics. Animals, plants and people require it. That needs to be at the top of the list. In the early 70's while adopting this lifestyle, we looked at purchasing rural land in AZ and found that the water restrictions were too prohibitive for us. My sympathy to Joan in CO for that reason.

An elderly gentleman we know with a "survivalist" mindset was asked to speak to a group. He said a source for water and a supply of food are necessary but you must have the seeds, the tools and the knowledge to be planting or your food source will dwindle too quickly. For those that think they can live off the land by harvesting game, etc. There will be many doing the same and that food source would be decimated.

Not pessimistic, rather realistic!

Pod - thanks to some bartering with Darius, I have many boxes of strike-anywhere's now :) I try to think ahead, truly I do. But sometimes I forget things - sometimerz...LOL!

Peace - I considered land in Colorado until I read up on the water rights issue. Same with Montana and Wyoming as well. Beautiful country, but pretty wonky on the water issues. When I narrowed our choices down to states with riparian water rights (after reading one of Gene Logsdon's books), well, that cut a large part of the country out of our shopping area. I needed the help...LOL!

I'm going to start a thread on Homesteading of our progress. I worked a long, hard day today, and I have far more admiration now for our forefathers and foremothers, as well as the Native Americans, than I ever did :)

Hineni,

I am interested in your shopping area. What are riparian water rights and which states did you choose from?

Wiki definition of riparian water rights:

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Riparian water rights (or simply riparian rights) is a system of allocating water among those who possess land about its source. It has its origins in English common law. It is used in the United Kingdom and states in the eastern United States.

Under the riparian principle, all landowners whose property is adjacent to a body of water have the right to make reasonable use of it. If there is not enough water to satisfy all users, allotments are generally fixed in proportion to frontage on the water source. These rights cannot be sold or transferred other than with the adjoining land, and water cannot be transferred out of the watershed.

Riparian rights include such things as the right to access for swimming, boating and fishing; the right to wharf out to a point of navigability; the right to erect structures such as docks, piers, and boat lifts; the right to use the water for domestic purposes; the right to accretions caused by water level fluctuations. Riparian rights also depend upon "reasonable use" as it relates to other riparian owners to ensure that the rights of one riparian owner are weighed fairly and equitably with the rights of adjacent riparian owners.

In the western United States, water rights are generally allocated under the principle of prior appropriation, which is derived from Spanish law and treats water as a resource unrelated to land.

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Just type 'riparian water rights' into Google for a more in-depth understanding. I don't have my book with me here in VA that listed the states as their water rights stood. Send me a d-mail and I'll try to remember to get the list for you when it gets up here. Any state you consider, type in the state name, and water rights ( example: Virginia water rights)
It will come up with lots of links for you to explore.

Hope this helps. Our shopping area was Missouri, Virginia, Tennesse, Maine, New York, and Massacheussetts.

Kentucky has riparian water rights. Thanks for that info. Very interesting stuff. I like to learn new things.