Anyone know anything about shinnery? poisonous plant

I enjoy all your messages, so I thought I would run this past you.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with shinnery. My grandmother said it would kill cows and horses and her family used to spray to kill it. She said cattle wouldn't normally eat it, but would if they didn't have much grass. I'm not much on chemicals, so I guess I will try and cut it down with a chain saw. Honestly, I'm not even sure what it looks like. I tried to find some pictures. I know it has a woody stem and is most dangerous in the spring.

I need to put a donkey on this land, and am very concerned about him being there. However, this land hasn't been grazed in 20 years, so there is plenty of grass, but then, you know how donkeys can be, especially this one. He's a doll though and in just a short time, I have grown terribly fond of him.

Karen

well, if you dont' know what it looks like, how would you cut it down??? if you are going to have a donkey, you might as well toss a few goats out there, i know someone in Amarillo with some wonderful kids, la mancha, nubian, and some boer crosses. i would not be the least bit concerned with what is growing out there. it must have a purpose. in the dust bowl days when there was hardly any grazing here and grains were in short supply, i can see poisonous plants being a big issue. but esp after all those fires, our ranges are covered with good grazing....

maybe someone has heard of it. i am usually up on weeds and posionous things, my guess shinnery is a common name. when i get back from errands for DH i will look it up for you in some of my books, K?

you need a goat! they get along great with chickens, and donkeys too!

[i want a donkey!]
tf

It's a type of oak--not a probem I think, unless they eat a lot--like TF said, they won't if they have decent forage. Here is a site:

http://www.rw.ttu.edu/newsletter/PDF/Mgmtnotes/SAND%20SHINNERY%20OAK%20CONTROL%20AND%20MANAGEMENT.pdf

WOW, excellent info catscan!

see, told ya, just get some goats! we don't have any sand in our soil here, so that is why i haven't seen it...

TY Catscan for the site, and for your quick reply TamaraF.

I have had some very stern warnings from the cattlemen in Wheeler county about this. It is very dangerous they say, and no joke about it. It will kill livestock.

I don't think it grows around Fritch, but in Wheeler county by the Oklahoma border it does, and is a great concern apparently.

This particular bit of land didn't burn, and I am so thankful for that because it has a few nice trees, which in this area is fairly rare.

I have only had the land a year and am not real acquainted with it yet. That's why I was asking and that's why I was trying to identify the plant so I can chop it up.

As far as the goats, that sounds wonderful as soon as I can get the water well up and running. That is, if the donkey can protect the goats from the coyotes. It's way out in the boon docks, close to Allison. I camped out there the other night in a tent and in the middle of the night heard a baby coyote learning to howl. Woke me up and at first I felt confused. What in the world was that noise? It sounded like a young puppy, only it was howling, or trying to. I really enjoyed myself out there, no people anywhere. I felt like an Indian living on the high plains. It was a wonderful dream until I looked up and saw those blasted airplanes flying around.

If gas wasn't so expensive I would be down there more often, and that's part of the problem, I won't be able to check on the donkey every day. He's such a sweet smart little guy, I want him to be safe.

Karen

well, he would not be lonely with a bunch of goats. and i know lots of goat owners who can't afford llamas have donkeys with their goats.... so sound slike a winning match. i called her to see exactly what she has to sell, and she will get back with me in the morning. she sold one today, a boer cross for chorritos for only 85 dollars. she just really doesn't want to get too many kids, she is trying to re-establish her chicken flock she lost when her coop collapsed...

these are young kids, you might have to bottle feed them a while, i don't know. i will ask her what the oldest is, maybe it will be weaned.

btw, can we come camp out at your place? the lake here is getting so dreary, down to 47 feet now, you can see the muddy bottom most of the way around, so depressing to look at.

we generally take a family camping trip this time of year, but had so many extra expenses from losing our chickens and being sued that we can't go very far LOL. ; your property soundl ike heaven. maybe we can bring our goats and puppies to test it out for you?

tf

Karen what about getting some dogs like Great Pyrenees as flock guardians? Would that work at all?

MollyD

My understanding is that the coyotes are so bad that they kill dogs as well, but ty for the kind suggestion. I think what I would like to have, once the water is going, and God only knows when that will be, is a few cows, and maybe some goats, and an organic garden of some sort, but that may be dreaming. I can't stay down there much, unless I can find a way to make my own fuel. There is no house there and it is about 65 miles from where I live.

One woman suggested that I get the land certified organic and sell organic beef. My problem though, is I feel a bit squeamish about killing animals. I know it's probably immature of me, and maybe I can get over that. If it meant feeding my grandbabies, I'm sure I could do it, and that may be what it eventually comes down to.

However, I bought these silkie chickens, and now cannot stand the thought of eating chicken. I've barely eaten any beef lately either. :) After listening to Howard Lyman about what is being fed to the beef at the feedlots, I may never eat store bought beef again.. ewwww. He says they take dogs and cats and grind them up and put them in feed to feed the cows that we consume. No wonder people are sick? Myself, I've had lupus since age 12, and I am now 51. Sure makes me wonder. I think TF posted that link madcowboy.com some time ago, and he sure is interesting to listen to, TY TF. It's also very scary.

Ok guess I'll go ahead and say this, though it is controversial. Have you ever heard of the Illuminati, the Elite? CFR? I've been studying them for several years now. Apparently they have their own religious agenda, and it's not Christian. Is it possible they are killing us on purpose? Anyway, it's a question and I may get edited for bringing it up. I always kind of thought the government and the people running it were just stupid, but maybe it goes quite beyond stupidity. In George Senior's own words, it's a New World Order.

Karen

i know, gas is high. we would love to come and visit you though, and i have some extra seeds i can share with you.

whatever you raise, just call it natural or grass fed. keep corn feed to a minimum. then the govt doesn't get involved and customers know you have good stuff.

my ex used to haul for a company that mixed cattle feed. they used scraps from the slaughter house and mixed it with used restaurant oil, it tstunk to high heavens!!! that is a supplement for feedlot cattle.

it is relaly high to get your own stuff butchered. stick with goats and chickens, you can sell them live and people can do their own thing with them. i really don't think coyotes are killing dogs, someone is storying to you. they wouldn't take down a donkey either. but wild packs of town dogs might...

tf

My great aunt lived near there and they killed all three of her big dogs. She claimed they would lure them away from the house and then the pack would jump them. She finally gave up on having a dog.

My grandmother was raised in that area and she had personally seen them fight a cow to take a baby calf. They are vicious, and God only knows the numbers that are there. Like I said, it is a remote area, and has been sitting for 25 years, just letting nature take it's course. It's really very lovely, in it's own Texas way. North Carolina, I thought, was the most beautiful land I had ever seen, but this will have to do.

Tamara, have you been to Lake Greenbelt? My daugher and I used to go there swimming. It is lovely. We also used to go to Palo Duro Canyon to camp. Do not get in the lovely streams of water there though. Do you know they routed the wastewater of Amarillo down into that canyon? It has a sign that says not to swim or wade in the water, but the tourists ignore the signs and swim away, not knowing they are swimming in sewer water. It's another one of those government stories.

Karen

I indeed have heard of the luminati, no I don't trust the government, and you should read the book "Along Came A Pale Horse".

Tamara, I would love to meet you and your family, but my health prevents me from doing a lot of things I wish I could do. I just stay home by myself and do the few things I can. I can't go out in the sun.. I haven't even been able to clean my house properly, so I don't have people in, I'm just too embarrassed.

I also have things to be grateful for. After I learned to clean up my diet, I can say I am mostly pain free. I continue to try and find ways to improve my health, which is why I came to this site, to learn to garden and raise my own eggs, and hopefully have a healthier lifestyle.

I just try to live one day at a time. I blew the head gasket out of my van hauling water a few weeks ago, so I'm trying to fix that. I'm enjoying my baby chickens, and reading all the posts on here. I bought a little light that goes on my head, so I can garden at night. The night time gardener. :) I visit my donkey each night and feed and water him. He is such a joy.

Do I wish for a better life? Yes, of course. Tamara, have you heard of paltalk? I would love to talk to you there some time. My nic is the same as here.

Karen

no i haven't heard of that. but i sent you a dmail, it works just the same!

my DH is a whiz at fixing anything. if you can stand a little embarassment, we would be glad to bring you some seeds, see your donkey, etc.

we talked because we coudln't quite place Allison at first, but it sounded so familiar! last year we drove back from the OK nat'l grasslands right through there. had to use a restroom, and this little restaurant was open after lunch. the owner was so nice, and the restroom so clean! i bought some drinks and candy bars on my way out. she said she lived in OK, but her business was so good there it was worth the drive.

that is definetly a lovely part of the state, and we wouldn't mind going for a visit there with you when you need to go.

look for the poopy drawers thread here and you will see some of hi shandiwork...

gotta go for this evening, take it easy Karen.
tf

Karen, just wondered how you've been : )

Thanks Patchouli,

Well, it was 105 degrees here yesterday. Crazy weather, cool one day and scorching the next. The chickens were hot and panting. That concerned me.

I have planted , garlic, carrots, beets, okra, corn, beans, asparagus and squash, and have more seed to plant. My problem seems to be, I don't know where to plant them, and I seem to spend a great deal of time feeling puzzled about it all. This is my first real vegetable garden. So far the potatoes and corn look good. Not sure what happened to my asparagus, it was planted over a month ago and nothing has come up, but I keep watering it.

Yesterday I ordered a compressor and air tools to work on my van. I may have to buy a breaker bar too. So much to learn. :) I never knew what a breaker bar was.

I have food and am staying cool. Life is good.

How are you?

Karen

108 here yesterday Karen, 100 today. been hosing down my chickens and making puddles for them.

sadly today, i hear an electrical repair man for Excel Energy was found dead in his bukcet, liekly related to our power outage. then in an effort to fix our transformer nearby, a fire was started two blocks away.

but we are OK.

tf

Sorry to hear that.

I don't keep up with the news much anymore, but I did see that the airplane in Harbor Bay made national news. Um, for those of you who don't know Lake Meredith, last week they found a plane that had been missing since 1984. The bodies of two young men in their twenties have apparently been identified. They were able to find the plane because the water is so low there now. TF lives close by.

I haven't been to the lake in several years. When I was a child we boated there every summer. Hard for me to believe the water is so low. Not sure I want to see it either. Wonder how Greenbelt is doing.

Can you believe they let those pigs in here in Pampa to take millions of gallons of water each day and pollute our water with the sewage? Very sad. Very sad.

Karen

hate those pig factories!

the lake looks sad, like a big mud puddle! CRMWA just keeps sucking it out to sell, knowing there is no river to refill it... there isn't a Harbor Bay any longer, you can walk across to the north side from there...

deadman didn't hit the news yet, got it by proxy from a friend of a friend...

the plane is supposed to have had a lot of drgus in it. feds will be here tomorrow to float it up and drag it to shore...

I belonged to the Accord group here in Pampa that tried to keep them out. We were the ones raising the big ruckus over it. :) My daughter and I even knocked doors and had over 200 signatures, if my memory serves me correctly, trying to keep those pigs out of here. Too bad the government runs over the will of the people in this fashion. The smell is starting to get bad here at times, I've especially noticed it the last few weeks. Guess it takes a few years to really build up. You can smell Perryton before you get there, it's like ammonia, technically I think it is methane.

The plane news is in the Amarillo paper online today if you want to see. They aren't saying much, certainly nothing about the drugs, maybe out of respect for the family. Not a pleasant set of circumstances for anyone. We never know when it's our turn to leave this world.

My chicks are back in their pens from their evening free ranging in the yard. Boy, do they love that. They come running out flapping those little wings and hopping all over the place. I am enjoying them so much. The partridges are especially lovely. One I named Minnie Pearl because it has always looked like it has a big square hat on. One of the other little partridges I assume is a hen. She is the loner of the group, always hangs back and often goes off on her own. Kind of reminds me of myself come to think of it. .

As I was looking up methane to make sure I had the right gas, I ran across an article talking about using manure to fuel cars. I've been reading and watching a lot of videos online about hydrogen gas made from water. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Is this off topic? What was the topic anyway?

Karen

there is a thread called sustainable alterantives:

forum i mean:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/gogreen/all/

i would ike to just get around in a goat drawn cart or a yak drawn wagon LOL...

still hot here, but cooling outside. no clouds, so the heat is escaping, not so bad like last night i hope. have to close up the extra henhouse door to keep out the rats!

OH, TY so MUCH. I didn't know they had such a forum.

I would love to get a cart for my donkey. Not that he would cooperate. He has his own way of thinking. :) Do you know that horses are not even allowed in town here now? I asked animal control if I could bring him into town to eat the grass in my yard for a few hours and they said ABSOLUTELY NOT ! in no uncertain terms. NO LIVESTOCK ALLOWED ! ! ! So much for freedom and liberty. The only livestock allowed is chickens, and I'm not sure how they slipped through. I am going to try and keep a low profile with my chickens so not to stir anything up. I don't think I'll have problems with the neighbors, at least I hope not. On one side of me is a wild bunch of hoodlums who couldn't care less, the other side is a state run organization for wayward teens, and they try to get along with me. We just ignore each other as much as possible. :) For the last 24 years that has worked.

I read how so much of our seed has been forever lost and so many of the poultry lines as well, I felt so sad. Storey claims that it was because of the people moving into towns and poultry being forbidden or unpopular.

We really need to be very careful of the television and how they try to mold our thinking and ideas. We are being sold a bill of goods.

Karen

Karen, you are absolutely right about television (and radio) trying to mold our thinking and ideas. Unfortunately they are succeeding. If you look at your email when someone sends you a "forward to so many people" stuff, and then check it out on "urban legends" you realize how gullible people are. They will believe almost anything they are told. After all, "it was on CNN, or CBS, or whatever" so it must be true????

Yeah, right. I guess I am a cynical old biddie, as some have called me. (Not here on this site). But, you know, it is good to be that way. Perhaps one day the rest of the people will wake up. Although I sincerely doubt it.

Actually, I just go ahead and do what I want within the law, and the devil with the consequences!!!

This message was edited Jun 4, 2008 6:41 AM

The video on google that really opened my eyes to news reports was the one from England where they were reporting the "falling of building seven" ten minutes before it went down. The building is still standing in the background. Then when I really listened to what she was saying. "Americans are so confused they don't know what to think" and on and on it went. Who writes this stuff, and why are we so gullible to listen to their drivvle? This is some serious manipulation and propaganda and worse, should I say the word "mind control"? I finally just turned my cable off again, and thought, who needs it. However I sometimes do go to their stupid news websites to see what they saying. I mean, gee, I don't want to be totally "uninformed". :

I recently found some tapes by John Todd online, tapes made from the late 70s. He sure had some interesting things to say. Wonder why he was jailed and later went missing?

Poor Fritz Springmeier is still in jail in Oregon for bank robbery. After watching his videos I have to say, he sure doesn't seem like the bank robber type to me.

Radio Liberty had an interesting program a few months ago about Sonny Bono. This lawyer claimed that Sonny was trying to get an investigation started on the Waco incident, right before he ran into that tree. Imagine that! Sure was good timing.

I've spent hours reading and watching videos to the point I had to stop studying this stuff. Best for me to just enjoy God's creation and clean my house and feed my animals. What can I do to change any of this anyway?

However, I don't want to be ignorant of the truth. I am glad to see and hear others thinking along similar lines. I am not alone, even though it seems that way at times. When somebody first said to me on Paltalk that the government is trying to kill us, I was stunned. The thought had never occured to me before. As I began to study flouride and vaccines and thinking about the "ignorance" of the things they do, it sure gave me cause to pause and rethink. What is going on here?

Karen

put me on the list of cynical old biddie, too! I'm always telling my kids that corporations dictate alot of the news(if they want to sell you something, it's hey look at this new study!!)

Saanansandy, I have been telling that to people for years. I used to take part in some of those studies. The corporations only give you questions and answers that they want to hear, like, how much did you like so-and-so. Listed is from 1 to 5...with 1 being liked it a little, to 5 being liked it a whole lot. Hey, whatever happened to didn't like it at all? etc.

You know, back in the 50s when they were using all that DDT, PCP, and other poisons, they didn't give a hoot about how they were polluting the land. Now, you would think they would know better, now they are asking us to put poison in our bodies with all these "make you feel better" meds that they push at you on TV, radio and in all the magazines and papers. Who needs it? I did need it 5 years ago, but I have to weigh whether it is worth the risk to take it.

GG

Well GG I learned my lesson a long time ago when they almost killed me with prescription drugs... helping my lupus of course. Since then I have refused to take any pharmaceuticals of any sort. I haven't taken one in 18 years now, only herbs and food and alternative solutions for me. Garlic cloves alone have probably saved my life. I also take uva ursi for my kidneys and hawthorn berries for my heart and I love passionflower for when I get nervous, which with lupus is common. Not saying I am well, but I'm a lot healthier than I was with their help.

Lately I've been experimenting with iodine. In 1966 they stopped putting iodine in our bread and milk and put in bromide in the bread instead. Bromide was known to cause paranoid schizophrenia. Iodine will actually kick out the bromide and flouride and heavy metals like mercury etc. I can testify to that because after taking the iodine my urine was dark brown for 6 weeks, just like the Dr. Fletchas said it would be. I lost a lot of weight too, and wasn't trying. It gives me energy at times, which with lupus is sometimes nonexistant. I must take it very slowly though or I have some unusual reactions. I think they call that herxheimer's reaction when you are throwing out into the blood more poisons than your kidneys can kick out. It has at least given me reason to hope though.

The Japanese get 100 times more iodine than we do and have almost no cancer.

I was listening to their tape again last night about how the thyroid and breast tissue in women compete for iodine. That might explain why 9 out of 10 of lupus patients are women.

Karen

That is something I wouldn't know about as I don't have Lupus. A friend of mine does, though. Another has MS, although hers is the slow kind. All I am is a breast cancer survivor of 5+ years now, so as you say, the thyroid and breast tissue compete for iodine. I used to use iodized salt but still ended up getting a goiter. We caught it when there was only a 3% enlargement.

We also caught the cancer in the very early stages. Unfortunately, at that time my doctor hadn't done any "sentinel node" biopsies so they removed all my lymph nodes when they did the surgery. But, I am here and loving every minute of it.

So, I guess I will put up with a little inconvenience in my life, because after all, it could be different.

GG

Thank you GG for sharing. I needed to hear that tonight.

You're very welcome.

GG
♥♥♥

one of the best sources fo riodine, and a common ingredient in health pills, is kelp.

i used to use granulated kelp for seaosning every day. but now DH cooks suppers [he only cooks half the time, but don't tell HIM that!] and uses lots of other spices too.

i have a tub of kelp and use it in the goat feed now and then...

Kelp is suppose to increase the Omega 3 fatty acids in chicken eggs. I was reading the patent for "healthy low cholesterol eggs" (yes you can patent just about everything!) and one of the main factors was the use of powdered kelp.

hmmm, since i try to not feed processed feed to the animals [nothing pelleted] i wonder how to get them to eat the kelp.... maybe in their next batch of tea water?

Mix it in your blue "treat" bucket!

DUH!

and that bucket is WHITE. blue is for soap for the goat. green is for goat's milk.

please, if you insist on giving advice here, would you please pay attention to detail, and get it straight? ;-P

Sorry I thought the White Bucket was for goat milk--that's the way I would do it:0) Please Forgive me Oh Great and Munificent CF!

DH ordered a catalog online for me with all kinds of milking things in it! so i can figure out what i want and posts ads on freecycle, semicycle, etc...

that's "T-f" to you dear!

Ooops! Did I let it slip again? Okay "T" f (wink wink).

And if the two of you don't quit bickering, I'm gonna turn you both over my knee and paddle you!! tee-hee

GG

You two are too funny. :D